NPPL

[flying snapper]

I have heard that the new licence is going to be introduced on June 1st. Is that true? Does anyone out there know where all the info (syllabus, application forms etc) can be got?

[Bouncy Landing]

It is true. Reduced training requirements, reduced medical requirements and reduced privilidges are the key aspects.

Check the CAA SRG web site - I believe there is information there. Also your local flying club will undoubtedly be able to fill you in on all the pertinant details, and the major pilot mags have done articles on it in the last year, check for back numbers.

[flying snapper]

Thanks Bouncy Landing for that, I will check it out! BTW were you watching my landing on Sunday? Bouncy wasn't in it!! I think I flare too high! <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[BlueLine]

Unfortunately nobody has designed any forms yet, or told the clubs anything. All there is is a syllabus nothing more. Ring AOPA they invented it and did all the work.

[FNG]

I was discussing the NPPL with Aussie Andy and others at one of Irv Lee's most excellent and highly recommended seminars yesterday. The consensus amongst those present, all PPLs, most of whom had held their licenses for a few years, was that the new licence would be of little or no interest, save perhaps to those who might have difficulty obtaining a Class 2 JAR Medical. Didn't the FAA introduce some sort of mini PPL called a recreational pilot certificate or something, which about 3 people bothered to get?

Of perhaps greater future interest was the possibility of EASA replacing JAA as the main aviation regulator for EU member states (bear in mind that JAA is not an EU organisation), with, perhaps, a return to mainly national regulation of non commercial flying.

[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: FNG ]</p>

[Evo7]

As a current PPL student, should I care about the NPPL? I've ignored it so far as it kept shifting from one thing to another, but it seems it has finally settled down.

[Tocsin]

Evo7,. .. .If you're already "in the mill" the NPPL is probably not of interest.. .. .For new starters, who aren't looking for the first step to a career, the NPPL has advantages, . . e.g. cheaper medicals, less bureaucracy (run by aviation organisations, not the CAA).. .. .As a lapsed glider pilot, it looks very similar to the way the BGA run gliding - and that works very well.

[BEagle]

Correct! The aims of the NPPL Steering Committee are that recreational flying should become cheaper and more accessible and that cross-accreditation between aircraft categories (SEP, SLMG, Microlight, Gliders various) should be more generous than under JAR/FCL. Also that medical requirements should be simpler and less demanding.. .. .It will be basically Day/VFR/UK and (for SEP) light 4 seat max simple aeroplanes. Extra training for RG/VP etc will be permitted, but IMC, Night, FI will still require JAR/FCL licences.. .. .We're working on the final touches to the NPPl proposal and hope that it'll be launched in the early Summer of 2002.. .. .Please note that there won't be any easing of qualifications required to instruct for the NPPL, or for training aircraft CofAs or for licensed/government aerodromes for the foreseeable. So those who thought they could get a NPPL, some form of cheaper FI rating and then set themselves up flying a deathtrap from a mud patch 'instructing' others for the goal of 'hours building' will be sadly disappointed!

[Who has control?]

OK, so in practical terms, what does this mean?. .. .I have a CAA PPL, how do I convert this to an NPPL as I want a cheaper medical and am quite content to stay VFR in the UK.

[scubawasp]

ok. .. .I'm off doing my ATPL, but my mate who holds a CAA PPL would still like to instruct, even if its only the ground school subjects. What should i tell him, and where are the places to go for a PPL ground instructor course??. .. .cheers guys

[Irv]

FNG refers to the seminar where we discussed the NPPL (from a previously qualified PPL's point of view) and as he says, at that seminar, there was no great reason for anyone there to want to convert to an NPPL. However, at other seminars, one or two attendees (generally the older ones) have decided to change as soon as they can - the main thing is getting the info across so informed decisions can be made by those who might benefit. For me, that's not the guy in the street looking for a 'cheaper' route to a first PPL. (I doubt if anyone will beat South Africa for that the moment, the way the Rand has collapsed). From my side, I see real benefit being to cut the costs and prolong active flying for a certain proportion of the current GA population. . .I expect quite a number of 'for fun' pilots at my airfield currently on JAR medicals will welcome the opportunity to convert to an NPPL. It fits exactly the sort of flying they do, and they gain in at least 2 ways - the revalidation 12 hours in the final 12 months of 2 years will be divided into 6 per year, which they will prefer, and the medical will be cheaper. I assume that in the very first year the older ones will be able to save whatever licence application fee is finally decided, just by swapping from an annual JAR medical cost to an NPPL one. They'll be the same people with the same skills, they won't suddenly become 'dangerous' with a different licence.

[flying snapper]

I think Irv does have a valid point, however I feel that the greatest benefit will be to those coming along and starting PPL training. Given the choice between expensive and excessively thourough medicals, more hours needed etc etc, for the carrot of being able to fly in Europe or go on to CPL level, I think that a lot of "new" trainees will go for the NPPL. The hassels, costs etc far outweigh the benefits for those of us "flying for fun" individuals.

[QUERY]

NPPL may appeal to greedy training orgs. and second-class students but isn't it a Naff Private Pilots Licence? As was pointed out, the training is inferior and the priviledges are restricted, so NPPL is only suitable for pilots who are going nowhere.. .How much cheaper than a JAA PPL course will NPPL be? . .Don't reduced hours, reduced medical standards etc. indicate, also, a serious safety reduction?. .The effect of weak licensing requirements is evident on the roads.. .NPPL is indeed odd, when the trend in training, medical and other licensing requirements has been for higher standards. Why are they allowing it?

[BEagle]

The standard of training will be no less for the NPPL than it was for the UK PPL pre-JAR/FCL.. .. .The syllabus will be less extensive as there will be no requirement for radio navigation.. .. .The medical standards will be less demanding as the NPPL holder will not be flying in anything other than VMC after qualifying.. .. .Examining standards will be no less for the NPPL than they are for the JAR/FCL PPL - except that there'll be 2 shorter tests rather than 1 long one.. .. .We're only pressing ahead with the NPPL because industry said that is what it wants.

[Skylark4]

Query,. . Mind you don`t fall off that pedestal you think you are standing on.. .The NPPL will suit a lot of people, especially those who cannot pass a medical to fly Jumbo Jets. Those with non insulin-dependant diabetes for example. As for pilots going nowhere, perhaps they have already been. The sheer cost of annual medicals with ECG is enough to stop some elderly but very experienced and competant pilots from continuing.. .Even pilots with the appropriate medical cert have been known to become incapacitated at the controls and, as far as I know, there are not hundreds of glider pilots making their last landing after already taking up the Harp and sitting on clouds. Solo glider pilots need only self certify.. .. .Mike W

[QUERY]

Far from contradicting concern, the above confirm that NPPL is a dangerous and disreputable dodge motivated by a greedy training 'industry' and people who shouldn't be allowed to pilot aircraft (or anything else).. .Also, still no answers.. .e.g. -How many hours will NPPL require?. . -How 'cheap' will it be?

[BEagle]

Retain your prejudices if you must, but please accept that the level of training and the hours required will be more or less the same as it was for the pre-JAR/FCL PPL. The CAA are content and so are bodies without commercial interests in PPL training.. .. .I can't quite understand what your point is; this is a licence for those who wish purely to fly for recreational purposes and not for those who wish to continue on to night, IMC or commercial flying. It will also benefit those who have certain medical conditions which would otherwise preclude them from flying solo - and this has the approval of CAA Medical Department.. . . . <small>[ 18 March 2002, 09:29: Message edited by: BEagle ]</small>

[flying snapper]

I must take exception to the uninformed and elitist criticisms of the NPPL. This licence in no way will be a reduced standard licence but rather a licence for those who want to "fly for fun" and not progress to 747's. A great many of the flying and training community are welcoming the new licence as a removal of unnecessary complications to fly. I for one would like to thank BEagle for his and others efforts to bring this licence to us.

[Polar_stereographic]

Query,. .. .I don't follow you. What exactly makes you think that those who come out with an NPPL will be less able to fly VFR than those with a JAR licence?. .. .Why also, do you have a problem with it? The reason I ask is that I get the impression from your posts that you have a problem/grudge against it, and I'm just curious to know what it is.. .. .And, may I add, that although an NPPL is not for me, anything that encourages aviation in this country has to be good. For years now, it's been getting harder and harder to fly, so for that alone it get's my vote. As an aside, I don't think that since all this JAR stuff has come in that the accident statistics are any better.. .. .PS. . . . <small>[ 18 March 2002, 09:47: Message edited by: Polar_stereographic ]</small>

[englishal]

I think its good to encourage GA in the UK, BUT I think the NPPL is a red herring. After all, how much is it really going to save the 'average' Pilot? Ok, so you may be able to get a licence in 30something hours, and you may save £100 on a medical (my renewal cost £50 with a free FAA class 2 thrown in)....but post NPPL costs will remain similar, ie. to rent a P28A will cost the same for a NPPL, PPL, CPL, ATPL, so whats the saving? . .. .Fine idea for people who cannot obtain a JAR class 2 medical, but is it really right to reduce training minimums? No requirement for Radio Nav, (and instruments??)...it seems that to have some sort of basic radio training is a good idea doesn't it?....just in case?. .. .What really needs to happen is for the JAA PPL to become a CAA PPL (again), and then the new CAA PPL to become less bogged down by crappy rules and regs, and let us all fly for fun again..... .. .Cheers. .EA