ATPL downgrade to PPL or not?
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ATPL downgrade to PPL or not?
I've retired from a commercial career and deciding whether to downgrade to a PPL or keep my ATPL up and running. I was intending to do a bit of touring in the UK and France on SEP types - nothing too ambitious. Has anyone been in this position recently and maybe give me the downsides of losing my ATPL? Only needing a Class 2 medical would be an advantage......
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Well you can fly privately on an ATPL on a class 2 anyway. Did it myself not 3 months ago.
Personally I would keep it going, the Green book gets certain types of people to leave you in peace were as with a poo brown one they would feel its there duty to stick thier nose in.
Personally I would keep it going, the Green book gets certain types of people to leave you in peace were as with a poo brown one they would feel its there duty to stick thier nose in.
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Good point, thanks. Unfortunately I managed to let the ATPL expire. No problem about a reissue, but I have to have a Class 1 for the reissue, and then I can go for a Class 2 next time. So the Class 2 I had recently would be wasted. My own fault.....
Does an ATPL still include the privileges of a permanent IMC rating? I know it used to.
Did you ever hold an old Lifetime PPL? If so, "they" will give you an updated one for free on the basis of your currrent ATPL, which would then not need to be renewed. I have just done this.
Did you ever hold an old Lifetime PPL? If so, "they" will give you an updated one for free on the basis of your currrent ATPL, which would then not need to be renewed. I have just done this.
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Interesting about the IMC - I'll ask. One slight problem with asking 'them' is however helpful they are (and they have been, without exception) every time I call (or visit) I get a different answer. LASORS isn't the cure, either.
The lifetime PPL is a dark area. My original was issued in 1966 and they've junked their records, assuming, I guess, we've all gone to seed. I'll persist.
The lifetime PPL is a dark area. My original was issued in 1966 and they've junked their records, assuming, I guess, we've all gone to seed. I'll persist.
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I would expect that to issue the IMC they will want a flight test if not done off the back of a SPA-IR. Which might be an idea to do anyway just the once to get your head around partial panel again. Then its just a case of paying your money to have it issued.
Personally I would keep it. You never know you might get the urge to do the FI course.
Things are up in the air just now with the new regs about to come in. My gut feel is that you would be at more of an advantage holding a ATPL with SEP and SPA-IR-SE than you would with a PPL and IMCR.
Personally I would keep it. You never know you might get the urge to do the FI course.
Things are up in the air just now with the new regs about to come in. My gut feel is that you would be at more of an advantage holding a ATPL with SEP and SPA-IR-SE than you would with a PPL and IMCR.
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Many thanks, Mad-Jock.
Just 'phoned the CAA and they confirmed I've got an embedded IMC with my CAA ATPL, so that looks a reasonable option.
Lifetime PPL looks dubious, and they'd have to check their microfiche records, as I'm not sure whether I can find the original.
They suggested I write in documenting exactly what I have, what I want, and they will make an offer. Depending, that is, on EASA.
EASA?
Just 'phoned the CAA and they confirmed I've got an embedded IMC with my CAA ATPL, so that looks a reasonable option.
Lifetime PPL looks dubious, and they'd have to check their microfiche records, as I'm not sure whether I can find the original.
They suggested I write in documenting exactly what I have, what I want, and they will make an offer. Depending, that is, on EASA.
EASA?
Flying Goat, I went through this process last year. My original PPL was issued in 1969. I was informed by someone I considered to speak with authority that this would have made it a lifetime PPL, but, like you, I could not find the original to prove whether this was correct. However CAA insisted that my PPL, by its issue date, would have been a Board of Trade licence, and these were all of limited validity period. Maybe this is why I had not kept the original ?
For better or worse I opted for the new PPL and so far I have found it adequate for my needs. I agree that you can get differing opinions from within CAA and LASORS does not cover all scenarios. Let us know how you get on !
For better or worse I opted for the new PPL and so far I have found it adequate for my needs. I agree that you can get differing opinions from within CAA and LASORS does not cover all scenarios. Let us know how you get on !
Did you ever hold an old Lifetime PPL? If so, "they" will give you an updated one for free on the basis of your currrent ATPL, which would then not need to be renewed.
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Thanks, Tagron. I'll certainly post what happens.
I realise it's a long shot, but my original PPL, issued in Sept. 1965 was No. 71723. Don't suppose anyone around with similar date/no.? Might save chasing the CAA's microfiche records. Looking at BillieBob's post, it may be short-lived anyway.
I realise it's a long shot, but my original PPL, issued in Sept. 1965 was No. 71723. Don't suppose anyone around with similar date/no.? Might save chasing the CAA's microfiche records. Looking at BillieBob's post, it may be short-lived anyway.
I have No 79699 issued in 1968. It is not clear that it is a lifetime PPL but, when I revalidated it after a 23 year break in 1997, the new one states clearly "for the holder's lifetime" but has a new number.
The original PPL looks like it was renewed after 5 years, in 1973, for another 5 years. I don't remember having to pay anything at the time. probably just satisfied them that I had kept up my C of E for the five years. If you didn't, you needed a new test.
The original PPL looks like it was renewed after 5 years, in 1973, for another 5 years. I don't remember having to pay anything at the time. probably just satisfied them that I had kept up my C of E for the five years. If you didn't, you needed a new test.
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FG,
I was in exactly the same position as you. I have kept my ATPL going after retirement but have Class 2 medicals. I had to renew it in 2008, so that year I had a Class 1 medical, paid the CAA a fortune and kept the ATPL going. (I must admit one reason for doing so is to keep my FAA 61.75 licence going and that is based on my ATPL.) I do a MEP LPC and SPA IR every year to keep the ratings in my ATPL current. I also keep the SEP validated.
What will happen after 2012 I have absolutely no idea!!!!!!
Fred
I was in exactly the same position as you. I have kept my ATPL going after retirement but have Class 2 medicals. I had to renew it in 2008, so that year I had a Class 1 medical, paid the CAA a fortune and kept the ATPL going. (I must admit one reason for doing so is to keep my FAA 61.75 licence going and that is based on my ATPL.) I do a MEP LPC and SPA IR every year to keep the ratings in my ATPL current. I also keep the SEP validated.
What will happen after 2012 I have absolutely no idea!!!!!!
Fred
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BB
My UK CAA ATPL is valid until 21/02/2014 not 08/04/2012
Fred
The 'lifetime' PPLs (and all other national licences) are only valid until 8 April 2012 by which time they will have to be converted to the JAA equivalent
Fred
My UK CAA ATPL is valid until 21/02/2014 not 08/04/2012
It may say that, but it will not be valid after 08/04/2012 no matter what date it might have. Even the Lifetime one comes to an end at that point
Only the other week "they" gave me a renewed Lifetime PPL because my ATPL runs out in January.
Are you telling me that it wont be valid for life even though it clearly says, under item IX Validity, "..remain in force for the holder's lifetime..."
Why on earth doesn't it say ...valid until 08/04/2012??
Do you know where this is stated? In Lasors or elsewhere?
Thanks
It is in Article 4 of the 'Cover Regulation' to EASA Part-FCL, which is itself Annex I to Regulation (EC) 216/2008 (The Basic Regulation).
1. Any pilot licence, including any associated ratings, certificates, authorisations and/or qualifications issued or recognised by a Member State in accordance with the JAA requirements and procedures before the entry into force of this Regulation, shall be deemed to have been issued in accordance with this Regulation.
2. By 8 April 2012, holders of national pilot licences, including any associated ratings, certificates, authorisations and/or qualifications issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1, shall have had their national licences converted into pilot licences, ratings or certificates specified in this Regulation by the competent authority of the Member State that issued the national licence.
It is also interesting to note this in the accompanying Explanatory Note:
Will the UK provincial government seek an opt-out beyond 2012? I wouldn't bet on it.
Article 4
National pilot licences and certificates
National pilot licences and certificates
1. Any pilot licence, including any associated ratings, certificates, authorisations and/or qualifications issued or recognised by a Member State in accordance with the JAA requirements and procedures before the entry into force of this Regulation, shall be deemed to have been issued in accordance with this Regulation.
2. By 8 April 2012, holders of national pilot licences, including any associated ratings, certificates, authorisations and/or qualifications issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1, shall have had their national licences converted into pilot licences, ratings or certificates specified in this Regulation by the competent authority of the Member State that issued the national licence.
The Cover Regulation defines the general applicability of Part-FCL and its other Annexes .... and proposes transition measures for the applicability of Part-FCL. However, it needs to be noted that the definition of a maximum applicability date for the Implementing Rules for pilot licensing in Article 70 of the Basic Regulation has limited not only the periods available for transition, but also the type of possible transition measures. Indeed, since the Basic Regulation establishes that the Implementing Rules for pilot licensing shall be applicable no later than 8 April 2012, any transition measures going beyond that date need to be opt-outs.