ATPL downgrade to PPL or not?
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Whopity,
In that case a whole heap of UK aircraft (commercial and private) will, in EASA terms, being flying illegally on 09/04/12.
Can you imagine the buraucratic shambles there will be in trying to issue EASA licences to everybody whose national licence is currently valid till beyond 08/04/12, particularly as UK CAA licences are still being issued.
Fred
In that case a whole heap of UK aircraft (commercial and private) will, in EASA terms, being flying illegally on 09/04/12.
Can you imagine the buraucratic shambles there will be in trying to issue EASA licences to everybody whose national licence is currently valid till beyond 08/04/12, particularly as UK CAA licences are still being issued.
Fred
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It is the reason that the CAA have been writing to everyone and suggesting the take up a JAA licence now. JAA licences will automatically be carried into EASA licences. Therefore the only people who will be flying illegally will be those who have ignored for YEARS the fact they will need to swap to a JAA licence on the grounds of the age old argument about a UK CAA licence being valid for life.
I have a UK CAA licence and a JAA licence as I was wise enough to think ahead.
UK CAA licences are not still being issued! They have not issued one in nearly a decade!!! The UK are issuing JAA FCL compliant licences. JAA FCL compliant licences will automatically become EASA Part FCL licences. When the licence is due for renewal they will automatically get an EASA one sent out but prior to that a JAA FCL licence will be deemed to be a Part FCL licence.
I have a UK CAA licence and a JAA licence as I was wise enough to think ahead.
UK CAA licences are not still being issued! They have not issued one in nearly a decade!!! The UK are issuing JAA FCL compliant licences. JAA FCL compliant licences will automatically become EASA Part FCL licences. When the licence is due for renewal they will automatically get an EASA one sent out but prior to that a JAA FCL licence will be deemed to be a Part FCL licence.
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UK CAA licences are not still being issued! They have not issued one in nearly a decade!!! The UK are issuing JAA FCL compliant licences. JAA FCL compliant licences will automatically become EASA Part FCL licences. When the licence is due for renewal they will automatically get an EASA one sent out but prior to that a JAA FCL licence will be deemed to be a Part FCL licence.
I have received no letter from the CAA suggesting I take up a JAA licence.
Fred
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Does it say issued in accordance with the JAR FCL on the front and have the words in Section IX that state by application of JAR FCL 1.015(a)(1) the licence holder is entitled to exercise privileges on aircraft registered in any member state?
The UK have not issued a national licence in nearly a decade since becoming a full JAA Member state. There was a transition period where national licences were issued with expiry dates as we converted to JAA. But a licence ISSUED in 2009 is not a National licence.
The UK have not issued a national licence in nearly a decade since becoming a full JAA Member state. There was a transition period where national licences were issued with expiry dates as we converted to JAA. But a licence ISSUED in 2009 is not a National licence.
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Does it say issued in accordance with the JAR FCL on the front and have the words in Section IX that state by application of JAR FCL 1.015(a)(1) the licence holder is entitled to exercise privileges on aircraft registered in any member state?
CAA Logo
2nd Line: United Kingdom Airline Transport Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes)
3rd line: Issued in accordance with ICAO standards
have the words in Section IX that state by application of JAR FCL 1.015(a)(1) the licence holder is entitled to exercise privileges on aircraft registered in any member state?
"Validity:
This licence is to be re-issued not later than 21/02/2014
The privilidges of the licence shall be exercised only if the holder has a valid medical certificate for the required privilege"
So to say that
The UK have not issued a national licence in nearly a decade since becoming a full JAA Member state
Last edited by fred737; 5th Aug 2010 at 12:29.
I concur with Fred ,on ATPL(H),and CPL (FW)..
ANO Article 82 states "The CAA must not grant....a United Kingdom Commercial Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) or a United Kingdom Airline Transport Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) to any person who was not on 30th June 2002 respectively the holder of such a licence" It is more likely that fred's ATPL was re-issued on 21/2/2009 having been initially issued prior to June 2002.
Unless a UK national licence is converted to the JAA equivalent by 8 April 2012 it will cease to be valid on that date. Since the Cover Regulation states that the issuing Authority shall convert all national licences, what is more likely to happen is that the CAA will simply cancel the UK ATPL and issue a JAA equivalent in its place.
Pity those people who hold a UK ATPL but do not have 500 hrs of multi-pilot time - they will only be able to get a JAA/EASA CPL. It is not clear at present whether, or for how long, they will retain exam credit for the subsequent issue of an EASA ATPL.
Unless a UK national licence is converted to the JAA equivalent by 8 April 2012 it will cease to be valid on that date. Since the Cover Regulation states that the issuing Authority shall convert all national licences, what is more likely to happen is that the CAA will simply cancel the UK ATPL and issue a JAA equivalent in its place.
Pity those people who hold a UK ATPL but do not have 500 hrs of multi-pilot time - they will only be able to get a JAA/EASA CPL. It is not clear at present whether, or for how long, they will retain exam credit for the subsequent issue of an EASA ATPL.
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BX
My ATPL was originally issued eons ago, however Part 11 of Part xi of my licence says
Type of Licence, date of initial issue and country code.
ATPL(A) 21/02 2009 UK
(My underlining and block)
It might be a revalidation of my ATPL but the wording is quite specific. It says date of initial issue. That is why I was taking issue (!) with your statement that the CAA had not issued National Licences in over a decade.
My ATPL was originally issued eons ago, however Part 11 of Part xi of my licence says
Type of Licence, date of initial issue and country code.
ATPL(A) 21/02 2009 UK
(My underlining and block)
It might be a revalidation of my ATPL but the wording is quite specific. It says date of initial issue. That is why I was taking issue (!) with your statement that the CAA had not issued National Licences in over a decade.
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No you were being a **** and playing stupid games. The CAA have not issued a CAA national licence in a decade. You have just had an existing licence re-issued.
My CPL was renewed in march and the initial issue date us given as march, it is just the wording.
My CPL was renewed in march and the initial issue date us given as march, it is just the wording.
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Having discussed this with the CAA at length, I'm going for renewal of my original non-JAA ATPL, which gives the embedded IMC.
If and when EASA comes in I've been told the IMC rating will be transferred, but will have a renewal date, rather than being embedded. There appears to be a good chance of a delay before EASA comes in.
I realise this contradicts much of what has been advised above, but will report back on what I end up with.
If and when EASA comes in I've been told the IMC rating will be transferred, but will have a renewal date, rather than being embedded. There appears to be a good chance of a delay before EASA comes in.
I realise this contradicts much of what has been advised above, but will report back on what I end up with.
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I renewed my old 10yr. UK ATPL today (it expired 2008), with Class 1 Med., R/T theory pass and SEP skills test. On the front it states:
'Issued in accordance with ICAO standards' and inside: Validity: 'This licence is to be re-issued not later than 25/08/2015'.
Date of Initial Issue 26/08/10, which I don't quite understand, or am I being thick?
CAA Licence and Medical guys couldn't have been more helpful.
Question (and thread creep): would this entitle me to fly a French-registered a/c in France? Or can I only fly in France with a UK-reg. a/c?
'Issued in accordance with ICAO standards' and inside: Validity: 'This licence is to be re-issued not later than 25/08/2015'.
Date of Initial Issue 26/08/10, which I don't quite understand, or am I being thick?
CAA Licence and Medical guys couldn't have been more helpful.
Question (and thread creep): would this entitle me to fly a French-registered a/c in France? Or can I only fly in France with a UK-reg. a/c?
A CAA PPL is just fine for operating an F-reg aircraft in France (or anywhere else, for that matter), so I guess they'll be equally happy with a CAA ATPL.
A UK national ATPL re-issued on 26/08/2010 is, under current UK legislation, valid for 5 years and will, therefore, be due for re-issue no later than 25/08/2015. However, flight crew licensing is due to be brought under EU legislation (which supersedes UK legislation) on 8 April 2012, from which date all licences will have to be issued in accordance with EASA Part FCL. JAA licences will be deemed to have been issued in accordance with EASA but UK national licences will not. Consequently, whatever is written in current UK national licences, they will cease to be valid for use in any aircraft with an EASA CofA from 8 April 2012. Welcome to the brave new world!
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Not according to the DGAC. When I moved to France and started renting here, both clubs I joined wrote to the DGAC to ask, and both got a reply saying that my UK CAA PPL was no problem and can be considered equivalent to a French or JAA one.
