TSA Fingerprinting
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TSA Fingerprinting
I am in the process of organising flying training in the US and I have got to the point where the TSA have accepted my documents and have requested fingerprints.
I want to maximise my time in the US so I went to a fingerprint collection agent in Europe (because I believe it can take up to 5 days to get them approved in the US and you can't fly until this happens). As it turns out, this was probably a good idea as I am apparently one of the "3% of people who do not give good fingerprints" and it was a real struggle to get a good set of prints. Even with the best efforts of the person who collected my prints, he was still concerned that they might not be of a high enough quality when they are scanned and sent to TSA.
I was just wondering if anybody else has had a similar experience and, if so, what the outcome was. I was told that if the prints are rejected that I can resubmit them again (after paying the pre-registration fee again) but I am not really sure how that would help if my prints in general do not have good clarity. From other peoples experience, will this be the end of my chances of doing flight training in the US or is there the possibility of some work around as the problem doesn't appear to be something that I personally can do anything about.
Thanks.
I want to maximise my time in the US so I went to a fingerprint collection agent in Europe (because I believe it can take up to 5 days to get them approved in the US and you can't fly until this happens). As it turns out, this was probably a good idea as I am apparently one of the "3% of people who do not give good fingerprints" and it was a real struggle to get a good set of prints. Even with the best efforts of the person who collected my prints, he was still concerned that they might not be of a high enough quality when they are scanned and sent to TSA.
I was just wondering if anybody else has had a similar experience and, if so, what the outcome was. I was told that if the prints are rejected that I can resubmit them again (after paying the pre-registration fee again) but I am not really sure how that would help if my prints in general do not have good clarity. From other peoples experience, will this be the end of my chances of doing flight training in the US or is there the possibility of some work around as the problem doesn't appear to be something that I personally can do anything about.
Thanks.
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I have never heard of this before and have no idea how you could get around it.
I recall the TSA were very responsive (by email) so you could ask them what happens.
However, there are plenty of reports of Europeans who have gone to the USA and got training done without the TSA/visa stuff, so evidently there are still some schools out there which do not observe the system
I recall the TSA were very responsive (by email) so you could ask them what happens.
However, there are plenty of reports of Europeans who have gone to the USA and got training done without the TSA/visa stuff, so evidently there are still some schools out there which do not observe the system
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Thanks for the replies.
@SoCal App: Yes, it was inked prints and not a live scan. After the first card came out a bit smudged we did use alcohol swaps immediately prior to the printing for all subsequent cards. However, even with this, the prints were still not very clear and even to the untrained eye (i.e. mine) the prints were quite hard to make out for some of the fingers. We also tried using some of the retest stickers as apparently this can make a difference sometimes but it wasn't much better.
I might get lucky and they might get accepted anyway. If not then I guess I could always risk going to the US and doing the prints with live scan prior to commencing training if there is a chance that this is less subject to quality issues. I will do some research on this just in case as it will obviously be very annoying if I go all the way there and still can't get TSA to accept the prints. At least I will get a nice holiday out of it I suppose
@IO540: Thanks for the suggestion but I guess my original post should have said "legal work around". If I can't for any reason do the training in the US then I will just do it in Europe so it is not the end of the world and is not worth risking the wrath of the US government by trying to bypass the proper processes.
@SoCal App: Yes, it was inked prints and not a live scan. After the first card came out a bit smudged we did use alcohol swaps immediately prior to the printing for all subsequent cards. However, even with this, the prints were still not very clear and even to the untrained eye (i.e. mine) the prints were quite hard to make out for some of the fingers. We also tried using some of the retest stickers as apparently this can make a difference sometimes but it wasn't much better.
I might get lucky and they might get accepted anyway. If not then I guess I could always risk going to the US and doing the prints with live scan prior to commencing training if there is a chance that this is less subject to quality issues. I will do some research on this just in case as it will obviously be very annoying if I go all the way there and still can't get TSA to accept the prints. At least I will get a nice holiday out of it I suppose
@IO540: Thanks for the suggestion but I guess my original post should have said "legal work around". If I can't for any reason do the training in the US then I will just do it in Europe so it is not the end of the world and is not worth risking the wrath of the US government by trying to bypass the proper processes.
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There's info on the TSA website (flightschoolcandites or whatever it's called) on places you can get this done in Europe.
It might have changed recently, but options used to be Farnborough or Le Bourget
It might have changed recently, but options used to be Farnborough or Le Bourget
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because I believe it can take up to 5 days to get them approved in the US and you can't fly until this happens
If you're a "category 3 alien" you can start flying training once the TSA acknowledges receipt of your fingerprints. The TSA does the background check while you are undertaking flying training and if they find anything amiss they will inform the flight school, which has to stop training you at this time. But in the meantime you are legally allowed to undertake training. If you find a place that can take your fingerprints electronically the receipt acknowledgement usually comes within 24 hours, while prints in ink will take a few days before they arrive at the TSA.
If you're a "category 1" or "category 2" alien you have to wait until the TSA finishes your background check, or until 30 calender days have passed, whichever comes earlier. Only then are you allowed to start your training.
So there's no legal basis for the five-day period that you mentioned. Other than that five days is on the safe side if your prints are made in ink, and need to be fedexed to the TSA.
https://www.flightschoolcandidates.g...§ion=FQ#C4
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Thanks BackPacker for the clarification. I had based my general statement on an email that I received from the flying school that had the following in it;
"Please note that training cannot begin until the TSA grants 'Permission to Train' – please plan 3-7 working days to receive this, and note this time is NOT included in the course duration".
I figured I would split the difference and assume 5 days. However, my use of the word approved was probably inappropriate as it is really the acknowledgement of receipt that matters, as you pointed out.
It certainly seems that if the fingerprints I submitted from Europe are rejected because they are not of a high enough quality that I can find a collection office in the US when I get there that has the electronic live scan facilities and try again. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.
"Please note that training cannot begin until the TSA grants 'Permission to Train' – please plan 3-7 working days to receive this, and note this time is NOT included in the course duration".
I figured I would split the difference and assume 5 days. However, my use of the word approved was probably inappropriate as it is really the acknowledgement of receipt that matters, as you pointed out.
It certainly seems that if the fingerprints I submitted from Europe are rejected because they are not of a high enough quality that I can find a collection office in the US when I get there that has the electronic live scan facilities and try again. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.
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I had the same problem a few years ago, it took about three attempts to get a good set of prints. The guy who did mine scanned them in and a computer program gave each print a number 'rating'. Provided the print was above that number (I think it may have been 6?) it was acceptable.
He eventually managed to get to complete cards of 6 and above and I had no issues with the TSA.
He eventually managed to get to complete cards of 6 and above and I had no issues with the TSA.
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Over the 90 days
Hi,
Im heading to the US on New years day. Got the visa and everything else and i'm "94.12%" ready to go according to my enrollment sheet... Just one problem. I submitted my TSA documents more than 90 days before my arrival in the US which means i cant submit my fingerprints there because if i dont submit my fingerprints within 90 days of the documents going in, the application is cancelled.
Now my question is, what the hell do i do? Has anyone been in this situation before?
I'm Irish and would be more than willing to trek over to Farnborough in the UK to send them off. However, i emailed someone in the TSA clearinghouse and she said i CANT do it in the UK. But an NFCC certified collector in farnborough said i CAN. I also asked people twice at the AFSP help desk. One reply said i cant and have to do it in america and ther other simply said 'I' don't know'...
Never come across incompetence like it!
Perhaps some decent folk here can help me out?
By the way, i also inquired about cancelling the application and just doing it again... but of course this question was met with more head scratching from the brilliant help desk.
Im heading to the US on New years day. Got the visa and everything else and i'm "94.12%" ready to go according to my enrollment sheet... Just one problem. I submitted my TSA documents more than 90 days before my arrival in the US which means i cant submit my fingerprints there because if i dont submit my fingerprints within 90 days of the documents going in, the application is cancelled.
Now my question is, what the hell do i do? Has anyone been in this situation before?
I'm Irish and would be more than willing to trek over to Farnborough in the UK to send them off. However, i emailed someone in the TSA clearinghouse and she said i CANT do it in the UK. But an NFCC certified collector in farnborough said i CAN. I also asked people twice at the AFSP help desk. One reply said i cant and have to do it in america and ther other simply said 'I' don't know'...
Never come across incompetence like it!
Perhaps some decent folk here can help me out?
By the way, i also inquired about cancelling the application and just doing it again... but of course this question was met with more head scratching from the brilliant help desk.
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Look at the Fingerprinting Process FAQ on the TSA website, questions 7&8.
https://www.flightschoolcandidates.g...§ion=FQ#F7
This directs you to the CTC webpage, where I found the following UK locations where you can get fingerprinted:
TSC
FlightSafety International UK Ltd - Farnborough, Hampshire, United Kingdom
Oxford Aviation Training - Oxfordshire, United Kingdom
So yes, it looks like a trek to Farnborough is possible.
OTOH if you simply resubmit your application in due time, won't that be cheaper?
Oh, and about AFSP personell who can't even read their own FAQ...
https://www.flightschoolcandidates.g...§ion=FQ#F7
This directs you to the CTC webpage, where I found the following UK locations where you can get fingerprinted:
TSC
FlightSafety International UK Ltd - Farnborough, Hampshire, United Kingdom
Oxford Aviation Training - Oxfordshire, United Kingdom
So yes, it looks like a trek to Farnborough is possible.
OTOH if you simply resubmit your application in due time, won't that be cheaper?
Oh, and about AFSP personell who can't even read their own FAQ...
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Thanks for the response.
Believe me i would rather just resubmit and save myself a small fortune and a day off work but theres no option to delete my present application anywhere on my account page. I also tried to submit a new application identical to the last one but it wasn't allowed because of the very fact it was identical to the original... and long story short it HAS to be identical so theres no way round that.
While the FAQ's offer some info it doesn't say if you can send off fingerprints if your not a citizen of that country. In my case, im irish trying to send off from the UK.
I guess my question isn't 'frequently asked' aye...
Believe me i would rather just resubmit and save myself a small fortune and a day off work but theres no option to delete my present application anywhere on my account page. I also tried to submit a new application identical to the last one but it wasn't allowed because of the very fact it was identical to the original... and long story short it HAS to be identical so theres no way round that.
While the FAQ's offer some info it doesn't say if you can send off fingerprints if your not a citizen of that country. In my case, im irish trying to send off from the UK.
I guess my question isn't 'frequently asked' aye...
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My documentation was accepted a couple of weeks ago. I have the email with the fingerprint instructions.
The 90 days thing i'm talking about is the time from submitting your documents to when you submit fingerprints. As it stands, if i submit them in Florida it'll be more than 90 days since i submitted my documents. This would render my application completely invalid. The TSA have confirmed that.
So i was just wondering about submitting fingerprints in the UK... OR doing the application again. No one has given me a definite answer yet, from anywhere
The 90 days thing i'm talking about is the time from submitting your documents to when you submit fingerprints. As it stands, if i submit them in Florida it'll be more than 90 days since i submitted my documents. This would render my application completely invalid. The TSA have confirmed that.
So i was just wondering about submitting fingerprints in the UK... OR doing the application again. No one has given me a definite answer yet, from anywhere
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You can do this in Europe.
I'm from Belgium, and I did my fingerprinting 2 weeks ago in Frankfurt.
(lufthansa flight training is a TSA-approved location)
(TSC)
Very expensive, 149 euro, + fee of 85 euro for the fingerprint cards?!
And the ticket for the train ride from Brussels.
But very fast service, 24 hours later I received my authorization to start flight training from the TSA.
The same service is available in Farnborough and Oxfordshire.
I'm from Belgium, and I did my fingerprinting 2 weeks ago in Frankfurt.
(lufthansa flight training is a TSA-approved location)
(TSC)
Very expensive, 149 euro, + fee of 85 euro for the fingerprint cards?!
And the ticket for the train ride from Brussels.
But very fast service, 24 hours later I received my authorization to start flight training from the TSA.
The same service is available in Farnborough and Oxfordshire.
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While the FAQ's offer some info it doesn't say if you can send off fingerprints if your not a citizen of that country
But in your case, I guess that Farnborough would be more convenient
Mutt
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fyi fingerprinting here in the US will cost around $20. Walk into the local Sheriff's station and the desk staff will be happy to do it.
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180 days has always been the time limit for training to commence from the date of TSA approval and then you have 12 months to actually complete the training..
And yes i first saw it on the flight schools website. However they and the TSA have confirmed (multiple times) this rule to be true via email. so sorry mate, no link. Part of the reason i was on here looking for answers is because the TSA havent mentioned the '90 day rule' on their website, anywhere. But believe me, i would much rather stroll down to the sheriff and part with $20 instead of €200...
Anyway, looks like im off to Farnborough. Interesting chat though.
Cheers lads
