VFR to Ukraine

[Kerosene]

vanHorck wrote:

Not much avgas in Romania but some is available.

Dorin Ivascu is MD of Baneasa airport (Bucharest) as well as the operator at Tuzla Airport, a grass aerodrome not far from the bulgarian border on the coast, much nicer than Constanta. He s the best contact to find out about routing, assist in CAA permissions and advice on avgas availability.
PM me for his email.

Bacau I ve not flown to, Iasi (no avagas) is a good hard runway and a pretty town on the Moldavian border. Same at Sibiu and Timisoara.
Strejnic i hear now has a hard runway, just north of Bucharest, west of Ploiesti

Some polish are currently doing some VFR via Romania to Turkey, I have their email for their experience. pm me

Thanks for the infos and especially for the contact in Romania!

Cheers, Kero

[Kerosene]

SkippingClasses wrote:

Back then there was definitely no AVGAS in Ukraine and unlike your Yak18T it won't take MOGAS as it is fuel injected.

The Yak18T's engine does take MOGAS, but I'm very careful with that since there's a chance of Ethanol content which could cause trouble (especially in summer). The way I'm planning it I shouldn't need to take fuel in Ukraine since it's just a 200km roundtrip from the Romanian border.

Once again, I fear that might have been the very first single engine piston flight into UKFF because when we landed they gave us a mini-bus for the crew and a bus for the passengers.

Yes, I think they're still not used to that.

I think VFR might be a problem because the Ukrainians are simply do not know how to handle it.

Yes probably all along LOW level waypoints, Navaids...

Thanks a lot for your help!

Cheers,

Kero

[Blue Albatross]

Hi Kero,

Not sure if anyone metioned this to you already, (I couldn't find it on the other porsts) but please note that unless you plan to fly IFR, you will need a Qualified Russian Speaking navigator. The fact that your wife speaks Russian is beside the point, they need an actual qualified Navigator to fly with you if you intend to fly VFR in Ukraine.

Also, please be aware that flight planning in Ukraine will mean having to fly along the airways routes as you cannot flight direct and fly off airways as it were.

And lastly, make sure there is some way of locking your aircraft and the fuel hatches as it's notorious to have avionics and fuel stolen fro the aircraft when they are parked up for a few days. And off course security will not know/be bothered to do anything about it.

My advice is to simply fly Wizzair to Odessa and back because when I flew in Ukraine is was too much hassle, too damned expensive and I was sick and tired of having empty tanks (thanks to their siphoning efforts) if I had any drop of fuel left upon parking!!

[Romeo Tango]

I flew around Ukraine in 2005 in my Robin, accompanying a Tiger Moth (v slow and we had to stop EVERYWHERE). We had the help of a local pilot who flew with us to do the radio, satisfy the navigator requirement etc.

There was only small quantities of unofficial avgas near Kiev. Otherwise mogas is used (they know which type is best). This worked ok in my O-360 and the Tiger.

The paperwork is horrific. Without much patience and local help it is very difficult.

We had no problems with fuel thefts.

We were made very welcome and the girls are pretty.

[ikono]

I am also flying to Ukraine!

Dear Kerosene,

i am happy to learn that you are planning a flight to Ukraine just as I do. My scheduled departure from Bautzen in Germany to Kiev in Ukraine is on 26 June. I am flying an ultralight C42 Ikarus. The horror of burocracy terrifies me also, but I have an impression that I now look through (after spending several hours calling ukrainian CA).
I am native ukrainian so I have it easier.

Good luck and have a nice flight to Ukraine!

Igor.

[ikono]

VFR maps

There exist VFR maps of Ukraine, but you can buy them only at UKBB airport. I started a thread which ended in a long discussion in Russian on a forum there:
Ëåãàëüíîå ïåðåñå÷åíèå ãðàíèöû íà ÑËÀ - Óêðàèíñêèé àâèàöèîííûé ôîðóì

Do not forget to look into Ukrainian AIP on Eurocontrol (you need to register, but it is free), there are also VFR rules there!
EAD Basic - Login Page

Old (2008) VFR maps of Ukraine I found here:
Àýðîíàâèãàöèîííàÿ êàðòà Óêðàèíû VFR 1 (Ñåâåðî-çàïàä). Ìàñøòàá 1:500000. 17 ÿíâàðÿ 2008ã.
...
Àýðîíàâèãàöèîííàÿ êàðòà Óêðàèíû VFR 8 (Êðûì). Ìàñøòàá 1:500000. 17 ÿíâàðÿ 2008ã.

The newer maps I bought in 2009 were almost identical.

As a foreign pilot you can fly VFR along special VFR routes (see the maps) and land at international airports (there are abt 20 of them, UKOO is of course also). If you need to land on a small airfield, you need a qualified "navigator" on board (his salary you'll find in AIP )

To enter Ukraine you need to file a ukrainian "flight plan" and get a permission according to AIP. The airport charges are also mentioned in AIP, but the reality looks somewhat different. I called UKKK today - $150 for a 8 h stay...

I shall do my best to prepare the flight, but I am afraid the reality is not like the theory from AIP.

[ikono]

trip to Ukraine

I have just returned from my trip to Ukraine along the route EDAB-EPKT-UKLL-UKKK-UKLL-EPRZ-EPOP-EDAB. If somebody still reads this forum and is interested - please ask questions.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Ikono,
I have been curious about the aeroclub at Nalivaikovka (sp?), West of Kiev. Actually, as a low-time ultralight pilot, I had considered flying there, but after reading this thread I am beginning to doubt the wisdom AND affordability of such a trip.

As I understand their website, flying is rather informal there, somewhat like ultralight operations in France. But perhaps they are tolerated because many of them are apparently professionals from the various aviation industries in Kiev?
As you fly an ultralight, you may have been in touch with them?

Aeroclub

NB I am surprised to find you were allowed at UKKK, Zhulyany airport. I should think they'd not allow you in controlled airspace?

[ikono]

>I have been curious about the aeroclub at Nalivaikovka (sp?), West of Kiev. >Actually, as a low-time ultralight pilot, I had considered flying there, but after >reading this thread I am beginning to doubt the wisdom AND affordability of such >a trip.

according to ukrainian rules (described in detail in AIP, see the link above), aircrafts with foreign registration can only fly between international airports using international routes. These routes are usually above 2750m AMSL and are in airspace C (transponder obligatory). Nalivaikovka is not an international airport, but UKLL and UKKK are. The problem is that at smaller fields nobody speaks English. Neither ukrainian FIS can speak English adequately. If you want to fly to Nalivaikovka, you need native certified "navigator" on board. Ask people at Nalivaikovka, some of them are navigators. Alternatively, you can fly VFR with an UL equipped with a transponder at 3000m AMSL I was allowed to fly 600m because I am ukrainian and Russian is my native language. But for Nalivaikovka I also need navigator on board

>As I understand their website, flying is rather informal there, somewhat like >ultralight operations in France.

Flying UL is not informal in Ukraine, at least not for ULs with ukrainian registration.

> many of them are apparently professionals from the various aviation industries in
> Kiev?
This is true for some of them.

>As you fly an ultralight, you may have been in touch with them?
Yes, I have. But you can also get in touch with them! (I would advise)

> NB I am surprised to find you were allowed at UKKK, Zhulyany airport. I should > think they'd not allow you in controlled airspace?
Stricktly speaking, I would normally be allowed in controlled airspace ONLY, my flight at 600m in uncontrolled airspace was a great exception which I had to arrange with Flight Coordination Department (See GEN 1.2, AIP) prior to the flight...

Any further questions are welcome. The whole story of my flight is here (in Russian):
Ëåãàëüíîå ïåðåñå÷åíèå ãðàíèöû íà ÑËÀ - Óêðàèíñêèé àâèàöèîííûé ôîðóì

[Jan Olieslagers]

Ikono, many thanks for this very elaborate answer. It seems obvious I will not be flying in Ukraine airspace anywhere soon.

As for your report:
-) I take it you are posting on that forum as Игорь , which reads more or less like Igor? But even this simple decoding took me some time, I am fully unable to read the story. More than ever, a single picture would have said more than a thousand words.
-) are you really posting in Russian on an Ukrainian forum? I was under the impression that Russian is, err, a bit _out_ these days?

[ikono]

Dear Jan, unfortunately, flying VFR in Ukraine with an UL having german registration was a great adventure even for me, citisen of Ukraine! But things can eventually change soon, my flight was an interesting precedent. My friends Ukrainian pilots are now preparing a letter to the president of Ukraine with an appeal to modify the rules.

>I was under the impression that Russian is, err, a bit _out_ these days?
Russian language is the native one for about a half of the ukrainian population. I can speak and write ukrainian, but the native language remains, it cannot be influenced by political changes. Also there are much more people in the world who understand Russian as compared with Ukrainian.

Igor is my given name, ikono is my nick. I do not think I find enough motivation to translate my long story in English. Hopefully, the story is soon outdated. One month ago my flight at 600m with a german UL would sound unbelievable.

[aa5flyer]

Germany - Ukraine- Romania Istanbul

We are a group of 5 Grumman aircraft and plan to fly in July VFR to the Crimea UKFF and then following the coasttline via Odessa to Constanta for a refuelling stop and further to Sahib LTFJ/ Iistanbul. Due to the VFR problems in Ukraine we consider to take a navigator for the tour to the Crimea with some costs. However, tThe navigator provides us with small cheap airfieds and AVGAS at location.
For the trip to Romania I kindly ask my fellow pilots in this forum whether anybody has knowledge about the possible routing from the Crimea along the Ukraine / Bulgaria / Romania coastline below FL 100. Or is it true that VFR is possible only in Fl 100 and above.
Has anybody up to date information about AVGAS and custom & price situation in Constanta or Tuzla LRTZ and the further routing to Istanbul?
Thanks
aa5flyer
you can also mail me directly [email protected]

[byteworks]

Romania is quite simple now: G space for ground to FL 105 less airways which are class C and TMA Bucharest which is A, FL105 to FL195 is class C less TMA Bucharest, and class A above - so you can do VFR ground to FL195.
You'll have to enter and leave the country at an international airport with customs, so Kogalniceanu LRCK is the choice, then you can go to Tuzla LRTZ for seaside fun. Flying the coastline is almost all G space, less the 2 CTRs and some LRDs, check NOTAMs for activation. You'll pass over Danube Delta and big lakes, great views are guaranteed!
I don't know about AVGAS & prices, will ask come back ASAP.

[aa5flyer]

AVGAS and fees in Romania

Thank you for this helpfully first information. I thought, Arad (LRAR) as AOEntry might be okay, as Constanta (LRCK) as AODepature. Tuzla is probaly not EOD for the further routing to Istanbul (?). So I would be happy to have confirmation for AVGAS in Arad, Constanta and eventually Suceava (LRSV) and fees at the ground for aircraft below 2 tons. Flight is planned for July 2
aa5flyer

[roofy]

Not sure if this helps but I visited by car Tulcea airfield last year and they had what looked like a fairly active level of GA and confirmed to me that they had AVGas.

[byteworks]

Yes Tulcea LRTC has AVGAS, also Suceava LRSV has some at our private club (my site, please with prior arrangement), Constanta LRCK hasn't but Tulcea LRTC is not far and in the way from Suceava LRSV and somehow from Arad LRAR. I don't know about gas at Arad, LRAR, I'll investigate.
Indeed Arad LRAR is international so OK for entry, as is Constanta LRCK for exit to Istanbul.

Some activity at Suceava LRSV.

[aa5flyer]

Thanks Roofy and Byteworks. So, if we fly this route (and not through the Ukraine /decision pending ) we hope to get AVGAS in Arat for our entry and in Constanta as our international departure aerodrome. Do you know whether there is a specific VFR routing from Romania down the coastline to Istanbul? Assume on IFR routes in altitudes hopefully below FL 100(?).

[gianmarko]

i am just back from a trip to Ukraine on a microlight. departure from italy, via switzerland to pick me up, then germany, czech, poland, ukraine, where we landed in Lviv and then in Aeroprakt club 50km west of Kiev

aircraft was a CTSW with T7 regs.

things have changed a lot in Ukraine, all flight controllers now speak good english, and VFR flight is possible, as well as landing in airstrips. we had some small bureaucratic problem, promptly solved by our local contacts. permissions are needed to enter ukraine, they must be obtained 2 or 3 days before the flight. no visa is required for EU citizens.

avgas or mogas are not available in airports, so trips must be carefully planned, fuelwise.

i also managed to meet Ikono, aka Igor, he is the tall guy in the pciture here, beside his wife. the guy in the front is the CTSW owner, and im the one with the dirty looking tshirt :-)

[aa5flyer]

Ukraine and more

We have been with 4 Grummman (UK, Germany, CR) aircraft in th Ukraine, as well. Yes, the contr is changing. We came from Jasionka EPRZ ( good pace, all what you need) and flew to UKLN Chernivitsi. Excellent first stop airfield. For all flights n the Ukrain an english speaking controller was requested. From there to Odessa Aeroclub UKKO. No navigator anymore required for airspace G. We were claimed to be th first group flynign on it!s own. VFR Maps, AIP, etc now avaiable via internet. AIS with the delivery of permits very slowly. Several fax just did not come into their hands. Only 2-3 persons avalable for the whole GAA stuff. You better have a local contact to speed up the burocratic things. AVGAS not available at the international airports. Our fuel was
organized in advance and the barrels came via truck from Kiev. Good qualty. 3.60 USD per liter. But have better a fuel filter with you. From UKOO to the Crimea a grass strip at the west side. If you don't speak Russian, you defintely need friends on the ground, as we had. Leaving the Ukraine from UKOO. Burocratic delay. N registered aircraft make th tings more complicate. 150 USD per aircraft.

From UKOO to Tulcea. Excellent field with fast and professional service. AVGAS
yes. Next was Sabiha Goekcen LTFJ. Be prepared for heavy communication and be familiar with the VFR approach.
Great flight by crossing the Bosporos. Permit as part of th flightplan only requested for N aircraft.
In Turkey, foreign aircraft mus follow IFR routings. LTFJ is expensive. With the support of the local aeroclub, the things are cheaper. The 14 days Grumman flight headed further down to Samos, Corfu, Dubrovnik and Losinje. But thats another story...

[FullTravelFree]

Hi all,

Its good to hear things (VFR/permits) are getting easier in Ukraine.

It so happens I have to go into Ukraine next week, from PL, with an
N-reg. It was mentioned that that was more
difficult. Can someone elaborate on what happened?

Thanks in advance!!!

FTF