Overhead Join in UK please!!
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Pembrokeshire UK
Hmm Well the French DGAC made a rule to standardise joining at uncontrolled airfields recently. Everyone is supposed to join at circuit height from the extended downwind leg. Also prior knowledge of circuit direction & r/w in use is expected to have been obtained via unicom 123.5. This method at least means you know where to look for other traffic, and it's got to be safer than the OHJ. 
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Oxford
The problem in the UK with the US 45-deg to downwind join is that it is illegal at an airfield with an ATZ. Without dragging out the ANO (I'm sure someone will find the reference) I am 99.9% sure that it states 'all turns within the ATZ are to be made in the circuit direction'. By definition a 45-deg join requires a turn against the circuit direction as you enter downwind.
FWIW I like the OH join and I'm not that much of a fan of the 45 deg one - I've flown both quite a bit and hold a US PPL as well.
Tim
FWIW I like the OH join and I'm not that much of a fan of the 45 deg one - I've flown both quite a bit and hold a US PPL as well.
Tim
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Moray,Scotland,U.K.
"I am 99.9% sure that it states 'all turns within the ATZ are to be made in the circuit direction'."
At an airfield with ATC, I join and turn in whatever way the ATC tell me to. Often both right hand and left hand are in use, with downwind and base joins, and jets etc straight in on the ILS.
I too am very dubious about overhead joins at uncontrolled airfields. Mixing of high wing and low wing in the descent, with the possibility of some being non-radio, appears the most dangerous possible way of joining. I prefer the US way, but do overhead joins here as required.
At an airfield with ATC, I join and turn in whatever way the ATC tell me to. Often both right hand and left hand are in use, with downwind and base joins, and jets etc straight in on the ILS.
I too am very dubious about overhead joins at uncontrolled airfields. Mixing of high wing and low wing in the descent, with the possibility of some being non-radio, appears the most dangerous possible way of joining. I prefer the US way, but do overhead joins here as required.
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Not a million miles from EGTF
I think the % of people who have even heard of "circuit discipline" (i.e. you are supposed to get behind the one in front of you) is less than most would believe
If only I could have laid my hands on the guy who nearly took us out by flying an 'unorthodox' join at Popham recently........
Still, I saved a fortune on laxatives that day
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 376
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From: UK
The crux of the case is there was a witness, walking his dog. So he became the 'persons'.
And it was his complaint and then his evidence that caused and then won the case. The fact that he was an ATPL IIRC probably means he knew his air law - whether that had any influence either way I do not know. It probably had some influence on his credibility, I do not know if his motivation was questioned.
And it was his complaint and then his evidence that caused and then won the case. The fact that he was an ATPL IIRC probably means he knew his air law - whether that had any influence either way I do not know. It probably had some influence on his credibility, I do not know if his motivation was questioned.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
If you are flying with Mode C, the radar tape can be pulled out.
Otherwise, I can't see how you would get done. These cases have come up a number of times and any half decent lawyer will demolish any height estimates done by ground witnesses. But that's assuming you have a half decent lawyer... many street corner lawyers will recommend you plead guilty regardless of the situation, which is the normal practice in motoring cases.
Otherwise, I can't see how you would get done. These cases have come up a number of times and any half decent lawyer will demolish any height estimates done by ground witnesses. But that's assuming you have a half decent lawyer... many street corner lawyers will recommend you plead guilty regardless of the situation, which is the normal practice in motoring cases.
