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Does Glider time count as total time on applications ?

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Does Glider time count as total time on applications ?

Old 7th Mar 2010, 12:01
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Does Glider time count as total time on applications ?

Hi guys!

I cant seem to find this information on the search tool or google but I believe I have read some information on this topic on this site before!

The question is can I include glider time as total time on Airline applications or do they want powered flight only? The applications I have filled out dont mention that it has to be powered flight only.

I know that I can count 30 hours of glider time towards an issue of a license (CAA told me on the phone) but anything after that pretty much goes out the window in terms of logging time that counts.

Good weather has been upon us in the south east and Im short of cash at the moment, so I thought gliding would be the best option as its cheaper and also the experience it gives you is very handy indeed when life drops you a engine failure in a Cessna 172.


So what do you think?
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Old 7th Mar 2010, 12:15
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If its a job application you can put down whatever you like. If you are seeking sponsorship, its all relevant experience; if you are qualified you would have to have the appropriate licence /experience to get the job but so long as you identify it as glider time it must be an indication of additional experience.

If they want a Captain with 3000 hours then it is of little relevance.
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Old 7th Mar 2010, 12:29
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Whopity,

Thanks for your reply! I am currently applying for First officer positions right now but as a low timer its being quite tough. So I thought gliding will give me extra knowledge and will be alot cheaper than flying a C150 around, but obviously I want this time to be counted as its valuable experience.
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Old 7th Mar 2010, 16:53
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So I thought gliding will give me extra knowledge and will be alot cheaper than flying a C150 around
Gliding will definitely improve your piloting skills. In general, any type of flying will improve your piloting skills and the more varied types of flying you do, the better you become. Weren't "Skully" and the captain of the "Gimli glider" all gilder pilots?

But don't expect gliding to be a lot cheaper than powered flying. Until you get to the point where you can fly solo, and have the ability/opportunity to soar for hours on end, gliding, minute for minute, is maybe a little cheaper than powered flying, but not a lot. And you spend an enormous amount of time on the ground being very busy, but not adding a single flight minute to your logbook.

I've done two one-week gliding courses, and the majority of my flights were a winch launch to +/- 500 meters, circling around to find no lift, and back on the ground in six minutes flat. If one winch launch costs, say 15 quid, you're still taking about 150 pounds per loggable flight hour.

Have to admit I have a few 1 hour plus flights in my logbook for that same 15 quid though.
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Old 7th Mar 2010, 21:00
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Gliding is great, but I would forget about it being countable against hours requirements.

Just do it because you love it and you're going to be a better pilot in the end. Count your gliding hours separately
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Old 7th Mar 2010, 21:08
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As much as I love aviation I do want it as a career so right now I want all my experience to count towards getting that first job so to speak.

I want the knowledge of gliding because it could possibly save your life one day and I think the Hudson river scenario is a good example of it.
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Old 8th Mar 2010, 00:35
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Ok, lets talk some reality here. If you start gliding and get a Silver C that equates to a 10hr saving on a PPL conversion (or did when I converted). That Silver C took 6 years and around 120 hours of gliding and a lot of time and money (and wasted weekends waiting on the weather).

Sure, I'm a pretty good pilot now and I owe most of my skill in piloting and reading of weather to my years of gliding.

But commercial flying is about systems management and the element of piloting is relatively limited. There's not likely to be another Hudson event for a very long time - even the pilot himself has left the industry because of the way flight crews are being treated.

One thing you'll learn is that nothing in aviation is cheap or easy. There aren't any short-cuts, unless you win the lottery.

So my advice is to bite the bullet and get the hours in in the normal way - get a share in a Permit aircraft (or non-equity). That will build your hours infinitely quicker and the skills will be more relevant.
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Old 8th Mar 2010, 09:37
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Does gliding time count? not always!

Off I went about 20 years ago to the good old USA, with a silver C in gliding, and my nice little brown booklet complete with UK PPL. Went to see the man at the General Aviation District Office in Orlando, please Sir, would you give me an American License if I show you my British license and medical?

"No problem" said the cheery FAA chap, whose name, I kid you not, was George Bush (no relation).

As I have dual nationality, I have a US social security number, which came in handy. He typed everything into his computer, and printed me out a nice little paper license. "Oh, I guess I better have a look at your logbook as well" he said. So I produced it for his inspection.

His smile disappeared. "I only see 18 hours in here! How do you manage to get a pilot's license with only 18 hours???"

"Well, Sir," I replied, "I had a Silver C in gliders, so that enables you to earn a PPL with only 9 hours, actually, but I wasn't that clever, so it took me a bit longer"

"Oh, this is a difficulty" he was wearing a frown by now. "I've already put your name into the computer......"

So after some consideration, he changed a couple of numbers in my logbook, and behold, I suddenly acquired 20 hours of experience at zero cost!

"I guess that will be alright," he said. "After all, they won't rent you an airplane unless they check out your flying first......"

Ah, the good old days!
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Old 8th Mar 2010, 09:39
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Quote: "But commercial flying is about systems management and the element of piloting is relatively limited"

That statement is true indeed but what happens when that goes out the window? your is the simple answer.

Anyone can fly a plane, and its all great when things go well but when it does go wrong thats when your skills come into play and thats what the airlines are paying you for. If it was the Airlines way they would make unmanned aircraft because it will be cheaper than pilots but obviously the public wont fly on it.

Unfortunately the way its going a kid out of college can apply for a pilot job and get it instantly a bit like a bus driver, and they will give you a 3-4 week course and your done. With technology getting better and humans relying more on machine than there own ability this will be the case in the future.

Gliding and flying in small GA aircraft is real RAW data flying.
And I want to say ive done it.

'There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight '- E.B. Jeppesen
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Old 8th Mar 2010, 10:31
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Gliding and flying in small GA aircraft is real RAW data flying.
And I want to say ive done it.
Something odd in that statement.

Do you mean that you are seeing it as an episode in a career of bigger and better?

The whole thing about gliding and Permit flying is that you just do it, and keep on doing it.

Yes you can dabble in it for a few months and give up, but to have put the effort into getting to Silver C, or to develop the skills to be able fly in and out of farm strips in a cheap permit aircraft, all that gets into your soul, and never leaves.

Commercial aviation, as you say, is glorified bus driving, with the trolley-dollies nothing more than attractive clippies (that dates me!).

But we have 70-year old pilots where I fly who will drag out elderly tiny aircraft for an evening bimble for the fun of it, long after they left the career behind.

On the other hand there are airline pilots who choose to move next to an active airfield and try to shut them down. They are using aviation as a career choice.

But if you are hours building I'd suggest you look for your local LAA strut and try to get involved with them. You'll find cheap shares and cheap flying - perfect for hours building.
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Old 8th Mar 2010, 10:37
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Ive been brought up around aviation, its all over my house!!!

If you have seen the beginning of Pearl harbour with the red bi-plane/ crop duster flying over the fields and then landing by the barn...well thats what I want after my long career.

Being in the Airline industry isnt going to be my only career but I do want it to play a big part in it.
You could say I want to be like John and martha King of Kings school in the USA...I have been told there the only two people with every rating and license you can possibly hold in the US.

But staying on the topic, I will take your advice into consideration and thanks for your time.
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Old 8th Mar 2010, 15:22
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Devil

Many years ago I got fed up with keeping separate logbooks for my power flying, gliding and ballooning. I now keep all of my flying records in my power flying logbook as it is quite clear from the type of aircraft which variety I am enjoying. Mind you with over 13,000 hours total who gives a damn anyway.
Cheers,
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Old 20th Nov 2019, 09:26
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What about having extensive amount of gliding (>3000h), but still being low timer with airplane (~220h).
That put me in an uncomfortable position: I donít feel myself as a totally beginner although my limited experience with powered aircrafts. For instance, I almost learned nothing during my hours building before going to CPL training course.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 14:18
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I was asking gliding experience when applying an airline company. Maybe I answered in the wrong thread, but could not find any information on this.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 20:45
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I'm in a similar position. Not really within EASA, think you can count 30 hours time officially. In Australia you can count 750hrs! I'd still put it down on a CV but separately.
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Old 22nd Nov 2019, 13:31
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The OP said.... the experience it gives you is very handy indeed when life drops you a engine failure in a Cessna 172.

So you would set your MacCready Ring and go hunting for a thermal..?
.

Last edited by scifi; 23rd Nov 2019 at 03:33.
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Old 22nd Nov 2019, 14:29
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Hours are hours, you can count anything as total pilot time on a CV. Each licence has a requirement for what can and can't be counted, for example you could get an EASA CPL(A) with only 70 hours in airplanes and an EASA ATPL(A) with only 750 hours if you use all the exemptions. But as for your CV - the important ones are TT, PIC and time on type. So if an airline asks for 3000tt with 1000 on jets above 40t then 2000 hours can be made up of MEP/SEP/TMG/Helicopter/Glider/ Balloon/Airship/Powered-lift/Microlight/Paraglider/
Hang-glider/Paramotor etc...
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Old 22nd Nov 2019, 17:14
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in my limited personal experience of this airline recruiters are generally only interested in aeroplane (and possibly helicopter) hours. Anything else (microlights, gliders, whatever) is in the "well I guess it's something to chat about during the interview" pile. I have separate log books for my (thousands of hours of) non-aeroplane flying and they have never even been looked at at an airline interview - all they were interested in was the aeroplane hours.
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