PPL Licence Issue...Issue!
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 235
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From: Earth
PPL Licence Issue...Issue!
Hi All,
After waiting 2 weeks I got my passport and logbook back from the CAA today. But no licence! Basically the chap has said they cannot find evidence of required solo cross country time (Qualifying- 5 Hours). Now my actual flying time to other aerodromes, including QXC has been just under 4 hours. And the remainder of my 10 hours required solo time has been on navigation exercises around Kent. This would equate to around 5 hours! And the remaining 1 hour spent in the circuit.
What can I write/fax/email back saying? They are asking for all my student records now
. Quote directed from LASORS: '‘Cross-country flight’ means any flight during the course
of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the
aerodrome of departure.'... Well that was what I pretty much did on every navex away from the field!
Hope you can help! Because i've spent so much money already and am getting bored of waiting around
Lewis
After waiting 2 weeks I got my passport and logbook back from the CAA today. But no licence! Basically the chap has said they cannot find evidence of required solo cross country time (Qualifying- 5 Hours). Now my actual flying time to other aerodromes, including QXC has been just under 4 hours. And the remainder of my 10 hours required solo time has been on navigation exercises around Kent. This would equate to around 5 hours! And the remaining 1 hour spent in the circuit.
What can I write/fax/email back saying? They are asking for all my student records now
. Quote directed from LASORS: '‘Cross-country flight’ means any flight during the courseof which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the
aerodrome of departure.'... Well that was what I pretty much did on every navex away from the field!
Hope you can help! Because i've spent so much money already and am getting bored of waiting around
Lewis
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: UK,Twighlight Zone
You are required to have solo cross country exercises endorsed in your logbook for those 5 hours. At each landing during the cross country you get a certificate signed and that certificate proves that the solo cross country was completed.
Swanning around more than 3 miles away from the airfield does not count I am afraid.
Swanning around more than 3 miles away from the airfield does not count I am afraid.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 235
Likes: 4
From: Earth
Lydd Aero Club, The only certificate I had signed by 2 aerodromes was when I was on my QXC. I was never told I had to have something signed when I landed at another aerodrome otherwise? The only certificate I can find on the CAA's website is for a QXC, no other.
The only certificate I can find on the CAA's website is for a QXC, no other.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
It those QXC certificates you need covering a total of 5 hours solo cross country time. All the other stuff is just counted as consolidation. Sounds like you need to go and do another navex with a land away.
I am little surprised that the CFI if the school who signed your logbook did not pick this up. But we are all human I guess.
I am little surprised that the CFI if the school who signed your logbook did not pick this up. But we are all human I guess.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,366
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From: UK
Surely just doing as the CAA requested, and sending them your student records would be sufficient?
Perhaps you did not clearly show in the remarks for the cross country flight that they were cross country navigation exercises. Your student records should clarify this.
Perhaps you did not clearly show in the remarks for the cross country flight that they were cross country navigation exercises. Your student records should clarify this.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 239
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From: Jockistan
Just checked my log book. Never got any of my solo XC flights endorsed in the log book. Also cant remember if I sent them the form which other airfields signed during the 270km cross country flight.
However what I did do is write ex 18A or ex 18B in the remarks so its pretty clear which solo flights count to the 5 hours solo XC. Maybe this is where you are falling down. If it doesn't include a land away its not immediately obvious it's solo CX so CAA don't count it ?
Mind you that was 10 years ago and I had to apply for a JAR licence using a CAA form - all very confusing. Maybe as much for them as me.
However what I did do is write ex 18A or ex 18B in the remarks so its pretty clear which solo flights count to the 5 hours solo XC. Maybe this is where you are falling down. If it doesn't include a land away its not immediately obvious it's solo CX so CAA don't count it ?
Mind you that was 10 years ago and I had to apply for a JAR licence using a CAA form - all very confusing. Maybe as much for them as me.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 314
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From: uk
I've just checked my log book, and the only thing signed off is a generic entry from the CFI stating that all logbook entries were correct (OK, there are a few other things, but nothing about doing X-country apart by QXC). I did, however, keep a separate record in one of the columns of all the time I spent doing X-country flying. This was just whenever I left the circuit, not necessarily landing away.
The CAA issued my PPL without comment (in 2002). Is this something more recent?
The CAA issued my PPL without comment (in 2002). Is this something more recent?
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
For licence issue, the CAA requires evidence of proper pilot navigation exercises. So 'Navex: Lydd - (turning point 1) - (turning point 2) - Lydd' in the Remarks column should suffice.
41 years ago, my logbook included entries such as:
10/4/68 Cessna150 G-AWCL Self Cranfield - Cranfield 1505-1605 1:00 PIC
Rmks: X-C Cranfield - Silverstone - Leighton Buzzard - Cranfield
Your CFI should have checked your log book to ensure that it included sufficient evidence of cross-country flight time to meet the PPL issue requirements.
41 years ago, my logbook included entries such as:
10/4/68 Cessna150 G-AWCL Self Cranfield - Cranfield 1505-1605 1:00 PIC
Rmks: X-C Cranfield - Silverstone - Leighton Buzzard - Cranfield
Your CFI should have checked your log book to ensure that it included sufficient evidence of cross-country flight time to meet the PPL issue requirements.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 85
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From: Suck on me toe
On the same topic I have a question. Hope you can help.
I'm near PPL skills test. I'm wondering is there a time within which I have to send in my documentation? The reason I ask is that I'd like to get the night restriction removed this winter once the days start shortening. To save myself the fee and admin. I was thinking of holding off sending in the PPL application until Oct/Nov. Is that possible?
I'm near PPL skills test. I'm wondering is there a time within which I have to send in my documentation? The reason I ask is that I'd like to get the night restriction removed this winter once the days start shortening. To save myself the fee and admin. I was thinking of holding off sending in the PPL application until Oct/Nov. Is that possible?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 691
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From: Yorkshire
this is very worrying. I am about to send for my licence when i get round to checking my entries. Anyway i dont think i have actually endorsed my log book with actual cross country flights. Is it 10 hours solo 5 of which must be cross country including only 1 flight that should be 150miles and include 2 landaways? The rest of the 5 hours can be just navigation away from airfield... Thats how i understood it. Ive done my qxc and one other land away at humberside. Is this sufficient if i have total of 5 hours flying away from home airfield? Just need to endorse my log book, But with what to make sure it goes through first time ?
Last edited by liam548; 28th August 2009 at 18:33.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 235
Likes: 4
From: Earth
The thing is, I have included Ex. 18 (plastered all over my logbook when flying P1), Solo Nav Ex etc, in my remarks column, and on several occasions included the turning points too! (e.g. Ashford-Detling-Canterbury). Nonetheless, i've written a letter and will pick up my student records tomorrow from the club and get them faxed off. I agree with it being confusing! 
...woo, 100th post!
...woo, 100th post!
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: scotland
seems if things have not improved at the Belgrano over the last 10 years - I did the (PPLa) JAR as I thought and after 14 weeks after submitting the "objective evidence" ended up with a CAA lifetime licence.
Hope your situation resolves itself quickly
Dum Spiro Spero
Hope your situation resolves itself quickly
Dum Spiro Spero
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,626
Likes: 12
From: UK
The rest of the 5 hours can be just navigation away from airfield...
Quote directed from LASORS: '‘Cross-country flight’ means any flight during the course of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the aerodrome of departure.'...
2 For the purposes of this Section:
"Cross-country flight" means any flight during the course of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the aerodrome of departure.
"Cross-country flight" means any flight during the course of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the aerodrome of departure.
The only flights that need a signature when visiting another aerodrome are those on the Qualifying Cross Country using this form: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG2105FF.pdf
Last edited by Whopity; 29th August 2009 at 08:26.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 369
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From: Northumberland
did they take your money?
Reason i ask is, sounds like my log book is as 'vague' if not more so than yours, my application was sent just under 2 weeks ago but they've taken the money off my card
Reason i ask is, sounds like my log book is as 'vague' if not more so than yours, my application was sent just under 2 weeks ago but they've taken the money off my card
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
It will take the CAA an absolute minimum of 10 working days to process your licence application, so allow roughly 3 weeks from the date you posted it.
This time delay could be reduced if only RFs/FTOs checked peoples' paperwork before they sent things off to the CAA. When I did a PPL Skill Test, I'd grab a coffee and quietly go through the applicant's paperwork whilst he/she was planning the navigation part of the Skill Test. But there is no obligation on the Examiner to do this - in theory all the Examiner has to do is to take the money, conduct the Skill Test, then tell you whether you've passed or failed.
A poorly completed logbook - particularly if it isn't up-to-date - makes the process of checking an applicant's paperwork a lot more difficult. The Examiner is supposed to be paid before conducting the Skill Test, so if he/she conducts the Test and it is later discovered that the applicant hadn't actually completed all the necessary requirements before the Test, then it's tough luck on the applicant.
I was frankly amazed at the abysmal quality of many applicant's personal log books - the CAA have my every sympathy for the work they do in wading through sloppy, careless paperwork submitted for PPL issue. It really isn't that difficult to ensure that it's all correct before submission.
There is absolutely no excuse for a personal log book to be 'vague' - that smacks of utter laziness, in my opinion.
This time delay could be reduced if only RFs/FTOs checked peoples' paperwork before they sent things off to the CAA. When I did a PPL Skill Test, I'd grab a coffee and quietly go through the applicant's paperwork whilst he/she was planning the navigation part of the Skill Test. But there is no obligation on the Examiner to do this - in theory all the Examiner has to do is to take the money, conduct the Skill Test, then tell you whether you've passed or failed.
A poorly completed logbook - particularly if it isn't up-to-date - makes the process of checking an applicant's paperwork a lot more difficult. The Examiner is supposed to be paid before conducting the Skill Test, so if he/she conducts the Test and it is later discovered that the applicant hadn't actually completed all the necessary requirements before the Test, then it's tough luck on the applicant.
I was frankly amazed at the abysmal quality of many applicant's personal log books - the CAA have my every sympathy for the work they do in wading through sloppy, careless paperwork submitted for PPL issue. It really isn't that difficult to ensure that it's all correct before submission.
There is absolutely no excuse for a personal log book to be 'vague' - that smacks of utter laziness, in my opinion.
Last edited by BEagle; 23rd November 2009 at 19:12.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 636
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From: notts
Navex
Your logbook must show clearly that you have a minimum of 5 hours xcountry solo. I discourage the annotation of several exercises against one entry wherever possible. Where not, it is necessary to note in the remarks column the amount of time allocated to any exercise that requires a minima.
Applications are becoming a nigthtmare these days where it has become paramount that the i's are dotted and the t's crossed. Your CFI should sought this out and can do so easily. Don't presume that anyone processing licences and ratings at the CAA know anything about flying, nowadays.
First a phone call from your CFI on your behalf and then a simple letter from him/her detailing the flights in your logbook that are relevant. That letter can be faxed by your CFI the same day. It is rare for the training record to be necessary and probably isn't on this occasion.
Applications are becoming a nigthtmare these days where it has become paramount that the i's are dotted and the t's crossed. Your CFI should sought this out and can do so easily. Don't presume that anyone processing licences and ratings at the CAA know anything about flying, nowadays.
First a phone call from your CFI on your behalf and then a simple letter from him/her detailing the flights in your logbook that are relevant. That letter can be faxed by your CFI the same day. It is rare for the training record to be necessary and probably isn't on this occasion.
