Air Accident Posts
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
From: LONDON
The moderator Jetdriver took a long time to answer criticism of moderation of the forums in this thread http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/3638...er-merged.html
I have copied it below for ease of reference.
I have copied it below for ease of reference.
The raw material that constitutes a thread is made up from the collective individual contributions of each poster. It therefore follows that the quality or perceived quality of any given thread can ultimately be no better or worse than the collective input. However some improvement can (and is) certainly made by controlling the published content and making some attempt to sort the wheat from the chaffe.
Although the same general rules of conduct are applied to a greater or lesser degree across all of the forums, "Rumours & News" is our front page leader forum. It is intended as a front page "News" forum for those subjects that affect our lives as professional pilots. As a front page forum it is in essence similar to the front page of a newspaper, in that the subjects should be newsworthy and relevant to the forum description.
To the statement "Censorship is alive and well on PPRuNe." Yes it is. There are some 60 or so moderators on the site (not all at the same time) who are based around the world, as best as they can, keeping 24 hour coverage on the site. In addition there is a function on every post where any individual can bring that post to the attention of a moderator, if they feel the content is unacceptable. Each and every such report is considered even if it results in no action or further comment. If it were not for the huge amount of input these moderators put in every day, this site would be a virtually unreadable mass of advertising spam for the Nike/Nokia merchants who plague this and other bulletin sites with such rubbish. Every forum would be full of identical posts from those souls who feel that their contribution to literature is worthy of identical repetition in 20 forums. Each and every forum would be overrun with teenagers and tourettes trying to compete with each other to see who can offer the better profanity. Then there are the zealots who see an electronic crowd to preach whatever (irrelevant to the discussion) religion, politics, or other inanity they feel the need to offer. These are all removed probably before most people ever have a chance to read them.
In a headline forum such as "Rumours & News," the normally high traffic throughput rises exponentially when a major aviation related news event occurs. Much of this traffic comprises the regular forum contributors, but a great deal is also made up of new posters (drawn to the site by the topic.) Many of these new members stay on to become regular readers and contributors, but it also follows that a lot of contribution will be made by people who are not necessary au fait with the modus operandi and general rules of engagement, on the site. In addition there is also an element of the spammers, crazies and maudlin hand wringers, who are drawn to every event where a crowd is forming. In addition to this, busy topics are fertile ground for distraction, in that a thread can begin to bog down in otherwise irrelevant banter between two or more contributors, adding nothing to the topic. A busy thread will have the attention of many moderators who are more ruthless than normal in culling posts that they perceive as having no relevance, or veering too far off topic.
Moderators rarely have the time or inclination to respond to a poster with the reason for any editorial action they may see fit to take. Needless to say the purpose of the action is to keep the site tidy and operating within the normal rules of conduct. The thread that a reader to this site views is often a well groomed product compared to the unedited mess that is visible to the moderator. In most cases there would be an avalanche of complaints if the busy threads were left untouched. In most cases the subject would have veered so far off track by page 2 or 3 of a thread that I doubt many people would see the relevence of the subject title.
PPRuNe was conceived as a site aimed primarily at Professional pilots. Over the years it has matured and grown into a site targetted at most aspects of professional aviation as well as private aviation and many groups encompassed within those genres. It still remains free at point of use. Contributors can remain anonymous. Readership is open to almost anybody in the world. As has always been the case, the site is moderated. Members signing up agree to conditions relating to conduct and usage. What is published on the site is subject to modification and removal at our absolute discretion. "Freedom of speech" is a fine concept and one that carries with it a considerable degree of personal reponsibility. Sadly the latter is not universally attached to the former and to that end it is a sometimes misunderstood concept. Unchecked, the concept can sometimes prove to be anything but "free" when somebody else is damaged as a result. For that and similar reasons those who would seek to test their own concept of it are welcome to do so on any site they may have ownership of, or indeed anywhere else. Here, they play by the owners rules.
I would also point out that banning a contributor is normally only taken for gross breaches of conduct on the site. However in a busy thread it can simply become too time consuming for a moderator to have to deal with an individual who seeks to prove their point or otherwise argue endlessly with an editorial decision. In such circumstances (and relatively rarely,) a temporary removal of posting priviliges can be the most expeditious route for a moderator to take. If an individual is not happy with that, they are welcome to complain. However starting a new thread (such as this one) in an inappropriate forum such as "Rumours & news" is not likely to remain.
In my own experience the complaints seem to fall evenly between those that have been subject to editorial control or sanction and those that complain there is not enough. You won't have to travel far to read posts along the lines of "Mr moderator why haven't you done this or that, or why is this individual allowed to propagate such nonsense"? It is always something of a balancing act, and we always try to be concious of not allowing our own opinions or prejudices to dictate a course of action. Human nature being what it is, and the fast dynamic on a site like this, means that will not always result in a perfect outcome. We do discuss these things off the public forums and try and achieve a flexible framework that encompasses the widest degree of contribution without allowing threads to wander too wildly off course. We also listen and try to act on much of the sensible criticism.
Finally I would make the point that we do try and accomodate the widest spectrum of contribution to a subject, whilst balancing the qualified and professional readership with those who are interested in the discussion or may have (what seems to others) basic questions or perhaps unhelpful or inane comment. A good deal more than some might appreciate is culled from the busier threads, but in the end result, what remains is still no better than the level of overall contribution. I am not aware of any overtly sensitive souls in the moderating staff. The backgrounds are from a variety of aviation and other professions and all have a great deal of related experience in their occupations. As a professional aviation site, it follows that there is an expected level of decorum. In an industry where communication is a vital key, profanity often does little to enhance a sensible discussion. The usual end result is early termination of a subject as the main protagonists simply try to out do each other in the application. Likewise when there is reported loss of life in a discussion, as human beings we are all saddened by the demise of individuals caught up in something we all are involved or otherwise interested in. It is taken as given, that there is sympathy with the victims or their surviving relatives. To that end (and rather like the profanity) it simply becomes clutter in a busy thread for comments on whose thoughts are where, or "RIP" comments as some posts try to out hand wring each other in what sometimes amounts to nothing more than maudlin outpourings. Again in a busy thread it adds nothing.
Is censorship alive and well on PPRuNe ? Yes as much as it has ever been. It is not perfect but it keeps the site readable, as evidenced by the number of readers and contributors. If you want to see the result of a poorly moderated but busy or popular site, just ask one of your own teenagers (or borrow one,) and get them to direct you to the plethora of such cyberstages.
Although the same general rules of conduct are applied to a greater or lesser degree across all of the forums, "Rumours & News" is our front page leader forum. It is intended as a front page "News" forum for those subjects that affect our lives as professional pilots. As a front page forum it is in essence similar to the front page of a newspaper, in that the subjects should be newsworthy and relevant to the forum description.
To the statement "Censorship is alive and well on PPRuNe." Yes it is. There are some 60 or so moderators on the site (not all at the same time) who are based around the world, as best as they can, keeping 24 hour coverage on the site. In addition there is a function on every post where any individual can bring that post to the attention of a moderator, if they feel the content is unacceptable. Each and every such report is considered even if it results in no action or further comment. If it were not for the huge amount of input these moderators put in every day, this site would be a virtually unreadable mass of advertising spam for the Nike/Nokia merchants who plague this and other bulletin sites with such rubbish. Every forum would be full of identical posts from those souls who feel that their contribution to literature is worthy of identical repetition in 20 forums. Each and every forum would be overrun with teenagers and tourettes trying to compete with each other to see who can offer the better profanity. Then there are the zealots who see an electronic crowd to preach whatever (irrelevant to the discussion) religion, politics, or other inanity they feel the need to offer. These are all removed probably before most people ever have a chance to read them.
In a headline forum such as "Rumours & News," the normally high traffic throughput rises exponentially when a major aviation related news event occurs. Much of this traffic comprises the regular forum contributors, but a great deal is also made up of new posters (drawn to the site by the topic.) Many of these new members stay on to become regular readers and contributors, but it also follows that a lot of contribution will be made by people who are not necessary au fait with the modus operandi and general rules of engagement, on the site. In addition there is also an element of the spammers, crazies and maudlin hand wringers, who are drawn to every event where a crowd is forming. In addition to this, busy topics are fertile ground for distraction, in that a thread can begin to bog down in otherwise irrelevant banter between two or more contributors, adding nothing to the topic. A busy thread will have the attention of many moderators who are more ruthless than normal in culling posts that they perceive as having no relevance, or veering too far off topic.
Moderators rarely have the time or inclination to respond to a poster with the reason for any editorial action they may see fit to take. Needless to say the purpose of the action is to keep the site tidy and operating within the normal rules of conduct. The thread that a reader to this site views is often a well groomed product compared to the unedited mess that is visible to the moderator. In most cases there would be an avalanche of complaints if the busy threads were left untouched. In most cases the subject would have veered so far off track by page 2 or 3 of a thread that I doubt many people would see the relevence of the subject title.
PPRuNe was conceived as a site aimed primarily at Professional pilots. Over the years it has matured and grown into a site targetted at most aspects of professional aviation as well as private aviation and many groups encompassed within those genres. It still remains free at point of use. Contributors can remain anonymous. Readership is open to almost anybody in the world. As has always been the case, the site is moderated. Members signing up agree to conditions relating to conduct and usage. What is published on the site is subject to modification and removal at our absolute discretion. "Freedom of speech" is a fine concept and one that carries with it a considerable degree of personal reponsibility. Sadly the latter is not universally attached to the former and to that end it is a sometimes misunderstood concept. Unchecked, the concept can sometimes prove to be anything but "free" when somebody else is damaged as a result. For that and similar reasons those who would seek to test their own concept of it are welcome to do so on any site they may have ownership of, or indeed anywhere else. Here, they play by the owners rules.
I would also point out that banning a contributor is normally only taken for gross breaches of conduct on the site. However in a busy thread it can simply become too time consuming for a moderator to have to deal with an individual who seeks to prove their point or otherwise argue endlessly with an editorial decision. In such circumstances (and relatively rarely,) a temporary removal of posting priviliges can be the most expeditious route for a moderator to take. If an individual is not happy with that, they are welcome to complain. However starting a new thread (such as this one) in an inappropriate forum such as "Rumours & news" is not likely to remain.
In my own experience the complaints seem to fall evenly between those that have been subject to editorial control or sanction and those that complain there is not enough. You won't have to travel far to read posts along the lines of "Mr moderator why haven't you done this or that, or why is this individual allowed to propagate such nonsense"? It is always something of a balancing act, and we always try to be concious of not allowing our own opinions or prejudices to dictate a course of action. Human nature being what it is, and the fast dynamic on a site like this, means that will not always result in a perfect outcome. We do discuss these things off the public forums and try and achieve a flexible framework that encompasses the widest degree of contribution without allowing threads to wander too wildly off course. We also listen and try to act on much of the sensible criticism.
Finally I would make the point that we do try and accomodate the widest spectrum of contribution to a subject, whilst balancing the qualified and professional readership with those who are interested in the discussion or may have (what seems to others) basic questions or perhaps unhelpful or inane comment. A good deal more than some might appreciate is culled from the busier threads, but in the end result, what remains is still no better than the level of overall contribution. I am not aware of any overtly sensitive souls in the moderating staff. The backgrounds are from a variety of aviation and other professions and all have a great deal of related experience in their occupations. As a professional aviation site, it follows that there is an expected level of decorum. In an industry where communication is a vital key, profanity often does little to enhance a sensible discussion. The usual end result is early termination of a subject as the main protagonists simply try to out do each other in the application. Likewise when there is reported loss of life in a discussion, as human beings we are all saddened by the demise of individuals caught up in something we all are involved or otherwise interested in. It is taken as given, that there is sympathy with the victims or their surviving relatives. To that end (and rather like the profanity) it simply becomes clutter in a busy thread for comments on whose thoughts are where, or "RIP" comments as some posts try to out hand wring each other in what sometimes amounts to nothing more than maudlin outpourings. Again in a busy thread it adds nothing.
Is censorship alive and well on PPRuNe ? Yes as much as it has ever been. It is not perfect but it keeps the site readable, as evidenced by the number of readers and contributors. If you want to see the result of a poorly moderated but busy or popular site, just ask one of your own teenagers (or borrow one,) and get them to direct you to the plethora of such cyberstages.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
From: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
Perhaps the MODERATOR could advise if this can be given some thought? (If this had not been already given thought in the past)
princepilot You clearly have a problem with me/us here so please PM me and let us have a chat about what is winding you up.
Also does this comment apply to our forum here, Private Flying or another forum?
Its the attitude that starts arguments. The "you need us more than we will ever need you" stinks. You must see that.
Also i have had posts of mine deleted for just disagreeing with a mod. Thats not fair in any way shape or form.
Also i have had posts of mine deleted for just disagreeing with a mod. Thats not fair in any way shape or form.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
From: Abroad
The mods elsewhere on pprune are pretty aggressive though.
Elsewhere, I make relatively heavy use of the killfile and post reporting features.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 779
Likes: 1
From: Kent UK
I've been posting here about three years and have seen many highs and lows in posting standards; I think self-moderation is key and if we don't do it, the mods will. Simple as that. And a good job they do too, in my book. 
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2001
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 8,121
Likes: 686
From: Twickenham, home of rugby
A reminder to all,
Can I ask you to refrain from posting the name(s) and or addresses of those killed / injured in accidents unless they have already been published in local or national press? BBC, Sky, CNN are also acceptable, but not other forums as sources.
Very simply, if you post a link to (or the text of) such a release here containing such personal details, that's fine.
Otherwise keep it to yourselves.
This in no way prevents or diminishes our ability to report and discuss accidents.
Thanks
BRL, Keygrip & SD
Can I ask you to refrain from posting the name(s) and or addresses of those killed / injured in accidents unless they have already been published in local or national press? BBC, Sky, CNN are also acceptable, but not other forums as sources.
Very simply, if you post a link to (or the text of) such a release here containing such personal details, that's fine.
Otherwise keep it to yourselves.
This in no way prevents or diminishes our ability to report and discuss accidents.
Thanks
BRL, Keygrip & SD
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 29
From: Bolton ENGLAND
Mods.........
Not sure if your reminder has anything to do with yesterday's accident in Lincolnshire. However would just point out the identity of the pilot has already been circulated. If some attempt at censorship is being made it does seems totally pointless.
Condolences to the family of the pilot.
Planemike
Not sure if your reminder has anything to do with yesterday's accident in Lincolnshire. However would just point out the identity of the pilot has already been circulated. If some attempt at censorship is being made it does seems totally pointless.
Condolences to the family of the pilot.
Planemike
Last edited by Planemike; 9th July 2009 at 15:46.
