Summer in the South East - Biplanes?
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Summer in the South East - Biplanes?
Afternoon All,
Sitting in a stuffy office on an uncomfortable leather seat & staring out into relatively clear skies I find my mind turning to the topic of things to do, flying wise, this summer.
With all my meagre experience, both pre & post PPL, thus far gained on fixed tricycle gear SEP's I think it's time to learn a few more skills - nothing too taxing but enough to keep me thinking about the basics of flying, possibly as a reaction to the 172 glass cockpit conversion & flying that I've been doing lately.
Anyhow, choosing to naively believe the forecasts of a long hot summer in the UK I thought it might be rather more comfortable to spend some of it in an open cockpit behind a large fan. That really is as far as my plan goes.
The objective is to gain a tail wheel and specific type conversion onto a biplane and having spent a little google time confirming my general level of ignorance I am erring towards time in a Tiger Moth.
I have two big holes in my knowledge here, which is why I am seeking to draw on the experience and knowledge of the forum users.
1.) Aircraft type options - what types are more commonly available to train on down here in the south east, pros, cons etc.
2.) Options for where to go to find training (google seems to give a number of organisations that no longer exist or have got rid of their aircraft)
To help me make a decision, and bearing in mind I am NOT a multimillionaire with the ability to take long trips very far away from the M25, I would be really interested to hear about any recent experiences that shed light on the points above and of course any pointers for other aspects to consider or just general observations on these types.
Look forward to reading some comments that can help me realise a day dream that is rapidly turning into an ambition.
Regards all, enq.
Sitting in a stuffy office on an uncomfortable leather seat & staring out into relatively clear skies I find my mind turning to the topic of things to do, flying wise, this summer.
With all my meagre experience, both pre & post PPL, thus far gained on fixed tricycle gear SEP's I think it's time to learn a few more skills - nothing too taxing but enough to keep me thinking about the basics of flying, possibly as a reaction to the 172 glass cockpit conversion & flying that I've been doing lately.
Anyhow, choosing to naively believe the forecasts of a long hot summer in the UK I thought it might be rather more comfortable to spend some of it in an open cockpit behind a large fan. That really is as far as my plan goes.
The objective is to gain a tail wheel and specific type conversion onto a biplane and having spent a little google time confirming my general level of ignorance I am erring towards time in a Tiger Moth.
I have two big holes in my knowledge here, which is why I am seeking to draw on the experience and knowledge of the forum users.
1.) Aircraft type options - what types are more commonly available to train on down here in the south east, pros, cons etc.
2.) Options for where to go to find training (google seems to give a number of organisations that no longer exist or have got rid of their aircraft)
To help me make a decision, and bearing in mind I am NOT a multimillionaire with the ability to take long trips very far away from the M25, I would be really interested to hear about any recent experiences that shed light on the points above and of course any pointers for other aspects to consider or just general observations on these types.
Look forward to reading some comments that can help me realise a day dream that is rapidly turning into an ambition.
Regards all, enq.
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You could do worse than Lashenden (Headcorn) albeit just off the M-25.
Great strip, amazingly freindly people, always lots happening, and generally a good place to be. Landings are cheap, and you will be doing plently of those again. Country side around about is great particularly in open cockpits where most of the time you are not inclined to go too far.
The Tiger club is based there so well worth giving them a call.
Great strip, amazingly freindly people, always lots happening, and generally a good place to be. Landings are cheap, and you will be doing plently of those again. Country side around about is great particularly in open cockpits where most of the time you are not inclined to go too far.
The Tiger club is based there so well worth giving them a call.
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I'm doing the Tiger Club option. I'm finding it's not quite as untaxing as I imagined. How they get several tail-draggers taking off in formation without side-swiping each other off the runway I do not know 
Great fun though and everyone is really friendly and helpful. Having got used to the full atc and orderliness of Biggin, it's a joy to find oneself, as I did a week or so back, mixing it with 39 French microlighters and being showered with canopies; at one's 'own discretion'.
They recommend learning in the Cub and the Jodel then onto the Tiger. That's what I'm doing.
Great fun though and everyone is really friendly and helpful. Having got used to the full atc and orderliness of Biggin, it's a joy to find oneself, as I did a week or so back, mixing it with 39 French microlighters and being showered with canopies; at one's 'own discretion'.
They recommend learning in the Cub and the Jodel then onto the Tiger. That's what I'm doing.
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Excellent help, thanks Fuji et al.
It's about an hour & a half drive from me if (& that's a BIG IF) the Dartford crossing is helping rather than hindering the flow of traffic. Certainly looks worth taking a trip down to the club to see what the operation is about and talk to a few members.
Many thanks for this suggestion - if any one can suggest any other options for aircraft / location all suggestions gratefully received.
Thanks for the observation on "uncontrolled" airfield ops G4FKK, the bulk of my flying is also from ATC airports (Southend or Kissimmee) so mental preparation for a vastly different airport environment is perhaps not something that would have been uppermost in my mind before now.
Regards all, enq.
It's about an hour & a half drive from me if (& that's a BIG IF) the Dartford crossing is helping rather than hindering the flow of traffic. Certainly looks worth taking a trip down to the club to see what the operation is about and talk to a few members.
Many thanks for this suggestion - if any one can suggest any other options for aircraft / location all suggestions gratefully received.
Thanks for the observation on "uncontrolled" airfield ops G4FKK, the bulk of my flying is also from ATC airports (Southend or Kissimmee) so mental preparation for a vastly different airport environment is perhaps not something that would have been uppermost in my mind before now.
Regards all, enq.
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I'm doing my PPL at Headcorn and I love the place. I did quite a lot of hours on the Tiger Club's Cub before I realised I couldn't use it for the full PPL as it has no radio navaids. I'm now on the usual spamcans, but I really miss the Cub with its rocket-like take off profile and point-it-to-go-there controls.
Conversely, I do find ATC airspace stressful!
Conversely, I do find ATC airspace stressful!
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Just a note of encouragement on the taildragging thing - it's not rocket science! I've just done mine on a decathlon (yes, I know they're easy) after a bit over 100hrs (flying, not tailwheel training!). Appart from needing to pay more attention post touchdown, it's just another aeroplane - go for it 
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Thanks all for the posts - I am now considering whether it might be quicker to do a tailwheel conversion on a more standard type at an airstrip closer to home before committing to the travel time involved in visiting the Tiger Club.
Regards, enq.
Regards, enq.
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Clacton is the obvious place for you to do your tail wheel conversion. I haven't flown a Tiger Moth much at all but I believe that it requires some more robust flying than a Cub, especially at low speed, so starting with the latter type and building a few hours would make sense.
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Justiciar's advice is sound, as always!
I have quite a few Tiger hours as I rather foolishly owned one for a while. Nowadays, you would be hard pressed to actually get me to accept one as a gift.
I have flown very few hours in both the Stampe and the Jungman and consider them both to be far better aircraft!
There was a very pretty Tiger on the ramp at Perth last Sunday, father and son up from Northants.
There are Tigers at Cambridge, depending upon your location in Essex this could be more convenient than Headcorn/Lashenden.
Stik - a committed biplane pilot
I have quite a few Tiger hours as I rather foolishly owned one for a while. Nowadays, you would be hard pressed to actually get me to accept one as a gift.
I have flown very few hours in both the Stampe and the Jungman and consider them both to be far better aircraft!
There was a very pretty Tiger on the ramp at Perth last Sunday, father and son up from Northants.
There are Tigers at Cambridge, depending upon your location in Essex this could be more convenient than Headcorn/Lashenden.
Stik - a committed biplane pilot
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Thank you stik & Justiciar - You are quite correct that Clacton is far more accessible for the tail wheel conversion & Cambridge would be more accessible on days when the Dartford crossing is struggling to cope with life - I'll look both of them up.
I'm also intrigued by the mention of the stampe & Jungman & shall perform a little research here.
stik - is your aversion to owning another Tiger cost / time related or does it hinge on it's flying characteristics?
regards, enq.
I'm also intrigued by the mention of the stampe & Jungman & shall perform a little research here.
stik - is your aversion to owning another Tiger cost / time related or does it hinge on it's flying characteristics?
regards, enq.
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My aversion to the Tiger is that it just isn't a great aeroplane. The people who rave about them are the ones who currently own them!
Sure it is nostalgic and quite pleasing visually. I find it a pain to handle on the ground and not particularly responsive whilst flying - huge adverse aileron yaw, despite very ineffective ailerons. Its performance is a long way from cosmic!
The Stampe was twice as nice to fly and the Jungmann almost twice as nice as the Stampe. The Jungmann's party piece is a delightful flick-roll.
I've flown both the 220 and the 450 (four aileron) Stearman and they were "agricutural". I ought to fly the Waco, I was once offered the opportunity in the mid-West but can't remember what occured to prevent me.
Someone once said about the Tiger something along the lines of, "The Tiger a superlative gentleman's aerial conveyance but it will never beat the aeroplane!".
Sure it is nostalgic and quite pleasing visually. I find it a pain to handle on the ground and not particularly responsive whilst flying - huge adverse aileron yaw, despite very ineffective ailerons. Its performance is a long way from cosmic!
The Stampe was twice as nice to fly and the Jungmann almost twice as nice as the Stampe. The Jungmann's party piece is a delightful flick-roll.
I've flown both the 220 and the 450 (four aileron) Stearman and they were "agricutural". I ought to fly the Waco, I was once offered the opportunity in the mid-West but can't remember what occured to prevent me.
Someone once said about the Tiger something along the lines of, "The Tiger a superlative gentleman's aerial conveyance but it will never beat the aeroplane!".
Stiknrudder, just because you have an avertion to the Tiger does not diminish its greatness. A production run of several thousand and countless young (and brave) young men who gained their first flying hours on this humble aircraft are testament to the significant contribution this old lady made during the last war.Perhaps you should cut her some slack, like the ailerons.
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I love the Tigermoth but agree with Stik. It doesn't handle very well, but then, I'm suffering so much from lack of flying that I would welcome the chance to remind myself how poorly they turn to starboard in the glide 
C'mon Stick, you've been spoilt by flying better a/c .... but you can't denigh that the Tigger will always put a smile on the face of all those who still have romance in their hearts!
SS
C'mon Stick, you've been spoilt by flying better a/c .... but you can't denigh that the Tigger will always put a smile on the face of all those who still have romance in their hearts!
SS
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There are good aircraft, bad aircraft and mediocre aircraft, just as there are good, bad and indifferent cars. The polular perception of an aircraft or car as being iconic often belies the reality of technical design (or lack of it) and flyability (driveability). I have a soft spot for the MGB, one of which I drove daily for six years. But ..... it was out of date when it was introduced, it was hugely compromised in its choice of engine and cars like the Fiat Spyder knocked it into a cocked hat on performance and handling.
Time has allowed us to make a judgment on the Tiger Moth vs Stampe vs Jungmann. That in no way diminishes the training and ultimate sacrifice of those pilots who learned their basic flying and fighting skills in the Moth and we can all make what is ultimately a personal judgment of the virtues of the Moth, balancing design and history against flyability.
Time has allowed us to make a judgment on the Tiger Moth vs Stampe vs Jungmann. That in no way diminishes the training and ultimate sacrifice of those pilots who learned their basic flying and fighting skills in the Moth and we can all make what is ultimately a personal judgment of the virtues of the Moth, balancing design and history against flyability.
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Stik / Justiciar
Thanks for your replies, that actually puts my mind at rest as I imagine, now I come to think about it, that an aircraft of that age would be more "challenging" to handle than a cessna.
It makes me even more keen to achieve proficiency on type as I realise I will improve my handling skills and overall levels of experience so the whole exercise will be considerably more than a purely romantic historical reenactment.
Taking the challenging nature of the Tiger into account I have decided that a tail wheel conversion on a Cub (whilst also familiarising with A/G grass strip operations) is a sensible way of managing the learning curve.
I took a run up to Andrewsfield on Saturday and, as well as it being about 35 mins from me by car, seems to be busy, friendly & popular so my plan is crystallising around tail wheel conversion at Andrewsfield and then Tiger flying down at Headcorn.
Thank you all for your posts on this thread.
Regards, enq.
Thanks for your replies, that actually puts my mind at rest as I imagine, now I come to think about it, that an aircraft of that age would be more "challenging" to handle than a cessna.
It makes me even more keen to achieve proficiency on type as I realise I will improve my handling skills and overall levels of experience so the whole exercise will be considerably more than a purely romantic historical reenactment.
Taking the challenging nature of the Tiger into account I have decided that a tail wheel conversion on a Cub (whilst also familiarising with A/G grass strip operations) is a sensible way of managing the learning curve.
I took a run up to Andrewsfield on Saturday and, as well as it being about 35 mins from me by car, seems to be busy, friendly & popular so my plan is crystallising around tail wheel conversion at Andrewsfield and then Tiger flying down at Headcorn.
Thank you all for your posts on this thread.
Regards, enq.
