Overhead joins

[rsuggitt]

This might have been asked before.... or maybe I'm being over-pedantic.... or maybe I've misunderstood what someone else has said...

..... but which part of the procedure is the actual 'join' ?

Let me explain.... I position overhead the airfield at 2000ft, and call 'overhead at 2000ft'...

Then I go to the deadside and descend, calling 'descending deadside'...

Then when at circuit hight I cross the upwind numbers in the circuit direction and call 'joining overhead' since at that point I am joining the circuit.

Right ? Wrong ? Just plane silly ?

[Kirstey]

I think the tradition is call overhead and decending deadside as you've suggested.. next call is downwind.

Technically when you cross the landing numbers and enter liveside you are crosswind if you want to make a call (could be useful if an aircraft is turning crosswind flying circuits as they'll be on a wider crosswind to you.

[Whopity]

You must report entering the ATZ Rule 45(6)(c), this usually accurs as you arrive overhead at 2000 ft and report Overhead. The overhead join commences when you arrive overhead the airfield, you may orbit to familiarise yourself with the aerodrome or commence the descent straight away, either way you are still joining over head. When you descend below 200 feet you call Deadside Descending so that other people know where you are. No further call is required until you report Downwind. CAP 413 Ch 4 Page 38

Then when at circuit hight I cross the upwind numbers in the circuit direction and call 'joining overhead' since at that point I am joining the circuit.

WRONG! You report DOWNWIND.

[scooter boy]

OHJs

Easy and fun in a slow aircraft - different matter altogether in something slipperier where a more stabilised approach is required.

And then we have the safety issues of aircraft converging to join O/H.

Give me downwind, base or straight in any day over an OHJ.

SB

[Rhyspiper]

:

Quote:
Then when at circuit hight I cross the upwind numbers in the circuit direction and call 'joining overhead' since at that point I am joining the circuit.

WRONG! You report DOWNWIND.

You wouldn't report DOWNWIND when you was across the upwind numbers either! you world report DOWNWIND when you are DOWNWIND clue is in the name!

[jxc]

I have a feeling Whoopity meant to say downwind once you are downwind


Cheers

[shortstripper]

I hate overhead joins. Very logical when not busy .... but on a sunny Sunday in the summer? I think OHJ's are a disaster waiting to happen when busy, so tend to ask for a different join in such circumstances.

SS

[Flash0710]

Here is yr man......

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_gad...oin_poster.pdf

be careful out there........

luv

xxx

f

[FREDAcheck]

Here is yr man......

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_gad...oin_poster.pdf

be careful out there........

Lovely colours! It shows a plane approaching from the live (circuit) side. What the diagram doesn't make clear is what you do if you are approaching from the dead side. What you're supposed to do is go to the overhead at 2000 feet (or whatever), than do an extra 180 in the circuit direction to join the blue path in the pretty diagram. Then you do another 450 degrees of turning (following the path in the diagram) to get on final, by which time you've turned a total of 630 degrees and are probably dizzy.

Some people say, if you are approaching from the dead side, that you descend on approach and go straight to the crosswind point at circuit height. That may be OK at many airfields, but it's not an overhead join; it's a crosswind join.

I also don't like overhead joins, but I do whatever the airfield tells me to. The one advantage of OHJ is that it gives you more time to find the field and figure out where the runways are. For instance, finding Fenland at this time of year: one green field surrounded by a thousand other ones, all similar sizes...

[Final 3 Greens]

For instance, finding Fenland at this time of year: one green field surrounded by a thousand other ones, all similar sizes...

Gee Pee Ess

[FREDAcheck]

Gee Pee Ess

Gosh, has Fenland got an RNAV approach? Only joking, yes I've usually got the GPS with me, and Fenland has an NDB (or is that gone? It's not on the new chart). But I like to think I can find places by eye when the electrics fail (has happened to me). I've only been to Fenland a few times, and when the surrounding fields are green I usually don't see it until I'm virtually over it.

[Crash one]

Originally Posted by Whopity

When you descend below 200 feet you call Deadside Descending so that other people know where you are. No further call is required until you report Downwind. CAP 413 Ch 4 Page 38

At that height I would call "going round"!!!

WRONG! You report DOWNWIND.

Wouldn't that be "Crosswind" followed by "Downwind" when you actually are?

[Kirstey]

So it's not just me that thought Whopity was a bit keen to shout there..

..what's your problem?

[Human Factor]

Very logical when not busy .... but on a sunny Sunday in the summer? I think OHJ's are a disaster waiting to happen when busy, so tend to ask for a different join in such circumstances.

Pretty logical on a busy day as well in fact (provided you're turning in the correct direction). The idea is that if it's busy at an uncontrolled airfield, you remain orbiting in the overhead at 2000ft until there's a suitable gap in the traffic to allow you to safely descend. Visit White Waltham and you'll see this in practice on most busy days (albeit at 1300ft).

I would counsel that to do a non-standard join at an uncontrolled airfield on such days is asking for trouble. If a particular airfield has a non-standard joining procedure (such as if parachuting is in progress), it will feature in the AIP. If you need to "ask" to do a non-standard join, then by implication you have an air traffic control service and you are required to follow their instructions anyway.

[cirruscrystal]

Overhead join poster - this link should work a bit better

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_gad...oin_poster.pdf

[Spitoon]

Overhead join poster - this link should work a bit better

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_gad...oin_poster.pdf

And if you want to know more about overhead joins you can always ask the New Zealand CAA.....

[tangovictor]

sensible

I was taught, by an ex RAF instructor, and it will remain in my memory for ever, looks stupid, works great,
Get some chalk, and markout a runway on the ground, fairly big, then, walk it
making the calls as you go, you can even get someone else involved and get him to do same, it works and sticks in your mind

[PompeyPaul]

I asked the CAA this

Lovely colours! It shows a plane approaching from the live (circuit) side. What the diagram doesn't make clear is what you do if you are approaching from the dead side. What you're supposed to do is go to the overhead at 2000 feet (or whatever), than do an extra 180 in the circuit direction to join the blue path in the pretty diagram. Then you do another 450 degrees of turning (following the path in the diagram) to get on final, by which time you've turned a total of 630 degrees and are probably dizzy.

Some people say, if you are approaching from the dead side, that you descend on approach and go straight to the crosswind point at circuit height. That may be OK at many airfields, but it's not an overhead join; it's a crosswind join.

I also don't like overhead joins, but I do whatever the airfield tells me to. The one advantage of OHJ is that it gives you more time to find the field and figure out where the runways are. For instance, finding Fenland at this time of year: one green field surrounded by a thousand other ones, all similar sizes...

I asked this at a CAA flight safety briefing and the CAA man said you go overhead then turn 180 dgrees.

Although, personally, I do a cross wind join....

[Whopity]

Wouldn't that be "Crosswind" followed by "Downwind" when you actually are?

Look at the original question:

Then when at circuit hight I cross the upwind numbers in the circuit direction and call 'joining overhead' since at that point I am joining the circuit.

Wrong call, wrong place. You could call Crosswind but it is not necessary so the next call is Downwind obviously when you are Downwind.

[Shunter]

I think OHJ's are a disaster waiting to happen when busy

That rather depends... at Old Warden last year there were over 100 aircraft arrived in a couple of hours. I believe the landing rate topped that of Heathrow. It was overhead joins for all with >10 in the circuit when I arrived. A well known retired ATCO was on duty in a FISO capacity, everything went like clockwork.