AEIO-320 Engine overhaul advice
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AEIO-320 Engine overhaul advice
The time has come to overhaul our engine and I was wondering if anyone has any advice on who to get to do the job in the uk.
Thanks
Thanks
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: very west
Age: 65
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having your engine overhauled is like having your car repaired. You find someone who ticks all your boxes and then stick with him. You will have a number of people giving you their advice based on this premis.
Myself, I have used a number of overhaul facilities here in the UK including well established ones, over the years. Many are very good. Some less so.
Richard von Isenberg has an excellent reputation. Arrow Aviation Services have a strong, loyal following. Norvic Aero Engines (ex-Jade, ex- Norvic) have been around for a long time and have good people and facilities.
David Bonsal at Dukeries, Netherthorpe knows his stuff and does good work.
New kid on the block is Nickleson-Maclaren. A couple of people I know of are very happy with their NM engines.
Bear in mind, if you only do 100 hours a year, and if your engine only makes it to half-life, it will be ten years before you find out your 'good deal' engine was rubbish.
Personally, I have been using Rob Ronaldson for more years than I care to admit to. In all those years, I have NEVER had to send one of his engines back. As well as that, all of his supplied engines have made it to TBO plus 20% extension.
You tend to stick with what works. Rob can be contacted at Ronaldson Airmotive, Kennington, Oxford 01865 321176.
No, I am not a relative, and no I am not on a retainer.
camlobe
Myself, I have used a number of overhaul facilities here in the UK including well established ones, over the years. Many are very good. Some less so.
Richard von Isenberg has an excellent reputation. Arrow Aviation Services have a strong, loyal following. Norvic Aero Engines (ex-Jade, ex- Norvic) have been around for a long time and have good people and facilities.
David Bonsal at Dukeries, Netherthorpe knows his stuff and does good work.
New kid on the block is Nickleson-Maclaren. A couple of people I know of are very happy with their NM engines.
Bear in mind, if you only do 100 hours a year, and if your engine only makes it to half-life, it will be ten years before you find out your 'good deal' engine was rubbish.
Personally, I have been using Rob Ronaldson for more years than I care to admit to. In all those years, I have NEVER had to send one of his engines back. As well as that, all of his supplied engines have made it to TBO plus 20% extension.
You tend to stick with what works. Rob can be contacted at Ronaldson Airmotive, Kennington, Oxford 01865 321176.
No, I am not a relative, and no I am not on a retainer.
camlobe
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ortol - PM sent with some info.
Beware what you get for your money, one of Camlobe's names kindly fitted ECi cylinders (having told us he always fitted factory cylinders as they were best - and charged us for the same). Result 6 engines with cylinders that have to be binned at 2000 hours, no 20%extension for those working motors - mandated by FAA AD - 2400hrs lost in one fell swoop...
As Camlobe mentioned - beware engineers saying go to one particular place. One company pays commission to engineers and guess who will pay that. Visit the companies if you can to see if they have the kit and the staff they claim to have, you'd be amazed!
Beware what you get for your money, one of Camlobe's names kindly fitted ECi cylinders (having told us he always fitted factory cylinders as they were best - and charged us for the same). Result 6 engines with cylinders that have to be binned at 2000 hours, no 20%extension for those working motors - mandated by FAA AD - 2400hrs lost in one fell swoop...
As Camlobe mentioned - beware engineers saying go to one particular place. One company pays commission to engineers and guess who will pay that. Visit the companies if you can to see if they have the kit and the staff they claim to have, you'd be amazed!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is the problem I found when looking for a UK engine shop to do my SB569A crank swap, late 2007.
There was not one UK engine shop on which I could find anything like uniform good reports.
In one or two cases, people were happy with the job but only after they went there, months after it was supposed to be ready, and kicked somebody's butt. And then kept repeating the exercise over and over.
I sent the engine to the USA. The engine shops out there are much more experienced and it is much easier to due due diligence. I used Barrett Precision in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The whole job cost $12k including the $2k crank, engine rebuilt to NEW (not overhaul) limits, plus shipping, and this was way less than I was quoted by UK firms. I visited them too, when the engine was in bits, and wrote it up afterwards for anybody who is interested.
The one thing I would do differently next time, however, is to use a courier (say DHL) to ship the engine there and back. This costs about £3k (total) but avoids problems which one occassionally gets with air freight companies which are generally staffed by ... shall we say .... not the sharpest people. The monkey air freight cowboy outfit I used "lost" my engine for 4 weeks.
There was not one UK engine shop on which I could find anything like uniform good reports.
In one or two cases, people were happy with the job but only after they went there, months after it was supposed to be ready, and kicked somebody's butt. And then kept repeating the exercise over and over.
I sent the engine to the USA. The engine shops out there are much more experienced and it is much easier to due due diligence. I used Barrett Precision in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The whole job cost $12k including the $2k crank, engine rebuilt to NEW (not overhaul) limits, plus shipping, and this was way less than I was quoted by UK firms. I visited them too, when the engine was in bits, and wrote it up afterwards for anybody who is interested.
The one thing I would do differently next time, however, is to use a courier (say DHL) to ship the engine there and back. This costs about £3k (total) but avoids problems which one occassionally gets with air freight companies which are generally staffed by ... shall we say .... not the sharpest people. The monkey air freight cowboy outfit I used "lost" my engine for 4 weeks.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Norfolk
Age: 62
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
US Engine Shops
I can't add anything to the comments above on the names, however, I have one question, is your aircraft on the "N"? If it is all well and good, if not the engine shop must have an EASA P145 approval to issue a Form 1 for the overhauled engine. If it is not and they shop in the States does not have an EASA approval an expensive trip for nothing.
Doing whats needed
Doing whats needed
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
0-320
I too have an 0-320 that has reached TBO and I am looking for the best engine shop in the UK. I was considering using Ronaldson Airmotive and would appreciate all of your comments.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would send it to the USA - BPA. Email me for a copy of a detailed report I did on mine.
BTW you don't need an EASA Form 1 for a privately (non AOC) operated G-reg. You need an Export CofA (FAA form 8130-4). If anybody says otherwise, ask them for the legal references.
For an N-reg, an 8130-3 is fine.
If doing an engine job in the USA, make 100.000000% sure up front they are going to do the 8130-4. They need to call in a DAR at the time and give him about $300 to sign it.
BTW you don't need an EASA Form 1 for a privately (non AOC) operated G-reg. You need an Export CofA (FAA form 8130-4). If anybody says otherwise, ask them for the legal references.
For an N-reg, an 8130-3 is fine.
If doing an engine job in the USA, make 100.000000% sure up front they are going to do the 8130-4. They need to call in a DAR at the time and give him about $300 to sign it.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
0-320
Hi IO540,
Thanks for your reply and advice.
Please excuse my naivety, but this is my first experience of engine rebuilding. I appreciate that there is always the option of sending engines to the states, but surely we have great engine shops on our doorstep in the UK?
Thanks for your reply and advice.
Please excuse my naivety, but this is my first experience of engine rebuilding. I appreciate that there is always the option of sending engines to the states, but surely we have great engine shops on our doorstep in the UK?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Engine shops, yes.
Great engine shops, well, this old chap has been dead a long time...
I did a lot of due diligence on this in 2008 and it was awfully hard to find a non-cowboy on the UK scene.
Great engine shops, well, this old chap has been dead a long time...
I did a lot of due diligence on this in 2008 and it was awfully hard to find a non-cowboy on the UK scene.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK, mainly
Age: 39
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another one here with an Isenburg overhaul. I've nothing bad to say about the engine (dynoed at 167hp after the overhaul, exceeds POH performance figures for takeoff/climb, doesn't burn much oil, good fuel burn, etc) but I'm sure any good shop would be able to get much the same out of the engine. As others have posted you don't usually find out about problems until the engine becomes rather senior!
You need an Export CofA (FAA form 8130-4). If anybody says otherwise, ask them for the legal references.
FAA regs have changed, 8130-3 for engines and props now. Ref below.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20100507DRAFT4_V2.pdf
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have used most of the people listed above and would say that smarthawks opinion is to be valued on this subject.
I had an "Eisenburg" engine in the shop a few weeks back and it seems to be a nice job, Mr Eisenburg has a good reputation within the business but I can't comment further due to lack of personal experiance with his products.
N-M are my prefered option at the moment with all the jobs they have done for me being of a very high quality, a reasonable price and quickly turned around.
I had an "Eisenburg" engine in the shop a few weeks back and it seems to be a nice job, Mr Eisenburg has a good reputation within the business but I can't comment further due to lack of personal experiance with his products.
N-M are my prefered option at the moment with all the jobs they have done for me being of a very high quality, a reasonable price and quickly turned around.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FAA regs have changed, 8130-3 for engines and props now. Ref below.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20100507DRAFT4_V2.pdf
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20100507DRAFT4_V2.pdf
However, it doesn't actually say what the limits of acceptability are regarding the use the destination airframe is put to. I presume this has not changed i.e. AOC ops still need the EASA Form1 for Class 1 parts. This of course doesn't affect a SE private aircraft which will almost never go into the AOC market.
I don't know how this works lower down in AOC ops (e.g. an oil hose); one can obtain anything with a Form1 if one really wants to by jamming some £££ up the back end of an EASA145 company who prints off the paperwork. When I was doing my engine in 2008 (SB569A), I was offered a Lyco crankshaft, dynamically balanced in the USA, supplied via a UK engine shop which added £800 for generating the Form 1
Just before EASA came in, I researched an article on this topic. It was clear from the CAA regs that one could use parts straight from the USA or elsewhere, with any document supporting traceability (i.e. not even an FAA 8130-3), in everything non-AOC except Class 1 parts (engines and props) which needed the 8130-4. Unsuprisingly, this corresponded with the day to day reality of aircraft maintenance, on everything from a C150 to a 747.
I then tried to update it, post-EASA, by asking EASA but got a total run-around by some anally retarded ex-Brits living out there who were totally divorced from reality ("Form 1 for the lot; all the FAA-[various European countries] treaties are now dead")
