Fis/basic - ATSOCAS Changes - 12th March
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Fis/basic - ATSOCAS Changes - 12th March
I must have missed something , am i right in hearing on the grapevine that instead of requesting a flight information service, i now request a basic service ?
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All changing, follow this link for more details.
http://www.airspacesafety.com/content/ATSOCAS.asp
Happy flying
http://www.airspacesafety.com/content/ATSOCAS.asp
Happy flying
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ATSOCAS - 12 March 2009
This isn't just a renaming, there are a lot of changes to the fundamentals of the Flight Information Service. Whilst some may or may not agree with the changes (see thread on ATC forums), it will be occuring and should be fully understood before flying and using these services.
Changes in phrasology will be occuring too, which need to be learn't.
I received a CD-Rom and information pack from the CAA recently, and I believe this has been sent out to all UK pilots and some European pilots known to frequent UK airspace (not sure how they know the details, but more information on the ATC thread).
I would recommend visiting the ATSOCAS (Air Traffic Services Outside Controlled Airspace) website to understand what service you will be receiving before you fly.
Strangely though, I haven't seen any posted information about this in the flying schools and clubs i've visited in recent weeks. Most people i've spoken to are very disgruntled with it, yet haven't read or understood the information sent out. Personally I have no opinion either way, I just accept it since I have no choice.
Changes in phrasology will be occuring too, which need to be learn't.
I received a CD-Rom and information pack from the CAA recently, and I believe this has been sent out to all UK pilots and some European pilots known to frequent UK airspace (not sure how they know the details, but more information on the ATC thread).
I would recommend visiting the ATSOCAS (Air Traffic Services Outside Controlled Airspace) website to understand what service you will be receiving before you fly.
Strangely though, I haven't seen any posted information about this in the flying schools and clubs i've visited in recent weeks. Most people i've spoken to are very disgruntled with it, yet haven't read or understood the information sent out. Personally I have no opinion either way, I just accept it since I have no choice.
I received that disc by post this morning. It is a complete waste of money. All it does is re-hash the relevant CAP with a few people voicing the radio calls. How much did it cost to produce? £10 on each licence application fee? The CAA are a joke. 
The changes are simple and all the information is available on the internet for free. No doubt it will be pasted up on every Flying Club notice board and featured in every flying magazine this/next month too.
Edited to apologise. I'm in a bad mood today...
The changes are simple and all the information is available on the internet for free. No doubt it will be pasted up on every Flying Club notice board and featured in every flying magazine this/next month too.
Edited to apologise. I'm in a bad mood today...
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Mikehotel152,
Whilst I don't support that this change has been entirely necessary, and agree its a pretty expensive fiasco, I must disagree with your comments:
"All it does is re-hash the relevant CAP", "The changes are simple"
There is a lot more too understand what exactly you are getting, and you won't receive the same information as you have come to expect from simply asking for a FIS, and you must understand the options availably fully to properly choose what level of support and information you require or desire.
With regards the RT, whilst I don't claim to be faultless in mine, I am quite astonished at how bad even some simple circuit calls can be with lots of 'errrs, erms' and non standard phrasology chit chat.
Whilst I don't support that this change has been entirely necessary, and agree its a pretty expensive fiasco, I must disagree with your comments:
"All it does is re-hash the relevant CAP", "The changes are simple"
There is a lot more too understand what exactly you are getting, and you won't receive the same information as you have come to expect from simply asking for a FIS, and you must understand the options availably fully to properly choose what level of support and information you require or desire.
With regards the RT, whilst I don't claim to be faultless in mine, I am quite astonished at how bad even some simple circuit calls can be with lots of 'errrs, erms' and non standard phrasology chit chat.
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Atsocas Cd
Who's tried the new ATSOCAS CD from the CAA? (Mine came yesterday.)
Or the online version here: Air Space Safety: News
They state that the new services are not just new names for the old ones but mostly it seems to me they are... A summary of the differences would have been very useful.
Tim
Or the online version here: Air Space Safety: News
They state that the new services are not just new names for the old ones but mostly it seems to me they are... A summary of the differences would have been very useful.
Tim
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http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...fis-basic.html
Haven't tried it yet but I agree a simplified summary may have been a good addition to compliment the cd.
Haven't tried it yet but I agree a simplified summary may have been a good addition to compliment the cd.
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I went to a joint CAA / NATS presentation at Barton last night. It was interesting. I think the general idea behind it all is to make sure people are fully aware of the benefits of each service and what exactly each service can offer. The speaker basically said that the old services had become mishaped and unsafe due to a lack of consistency, ie when received a FIS, people were getting a FIS from some units and a RIS from others. So although the new services may seem similar to the old ones, the fact is that the old ones had become dilluted and were offering more than they should have in some cases. In turn, this had led to airproxes etc as people were used to be being told about traffic more than they should have.
The feel I got was that the new services are therefore redesigned in order to ensure people get what they ask for, although if a unit decide that they must provide an extra service to avoid a potential collision, they can do. One thing that was said, was that the traffic service is very similar, if not the same as the old RIS.
The feel I got was that the new services are therefore redesigned in order to ensure people get what they ask for, although if a unit decide that they must provide an extra service to avoid a potential collision, they can do. One thing that was said, was that the traffic service is very similar, if not the same as the old RIS.
L'aviateur - I apologise. I was a bit harsh. However, I stand by my argument that all the information is already in the public domain and producing a CD was an unnecessary cost.
I completely agree about the standard of R/T but there's already plenty in CAP413.
I completely agree about the standard of R/T but there's already plenty in CAP413.
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I make my living providing an area FIS....come the 12th apart from the name change to Basic Service nothing else should really change....if I am working other traffic that I think may be in conflict with you I will advise you as I would have in the past ( Duty of care!!) Only a BS "Basic Service" will be provided by both London and Scottish information as A TS "traffic Service" is a radar based service.
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change to the same
fisbangwollop
Thank goodness you didn't take the golden handshake (if it was offered) on the 'abolition' of SFIS.
Your tactful help with tremulous attempts at correct procedure and traffic info are appreciated and are required for some little (or large) time yet.
Reading beteween your lines 'plus le change plus le meme chose' as far as you are concerned,hopefully.
atceng
Thank goodness you didn't take the golden handshake (if it was offered) on the 'abolition' of SFIS.
Your tactful help with tremulous attempts at correct procedure and traffic info are appreciated and are required for some little (or large) time yet.
Reading beteween your lines 'plus le change plus le meme chose' as far as you are concerned,hopefully.
atceng
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CAA's CD
Hi Guys,
I got my nice new disk from the CAA.
But when I put it in my computer (Windows XP) it did not start up automatically.
So I looked at the cardboard sleeve to see if there was a run command that I could key in, and guess what?
Nothing.
So I had to download the damn thing anyway.
I wonder why they bothered.
Anybody want a disk?
Broomstick.
I got my nice new disk from the CAA.
But when I put it in my computer (Windows XP) it did not start up automatically.
So I looked at the cardboard sleeve to see if there was a run command that I could key in, and guess what?
Nothing.
So I had to download the damn thing anyway.
I wonder why they bothered.
Anybody want a disk?
Broomstick.
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For Windows -
In My Computer, open the DVD drive by clicking on it, then double click ATSOCAS.exe.
It's incredibly fragmented and difficult to find simple info about what should be simple things. I gave up and hunted around the net but only found the same thing online. It would help enormously if they stopped trying to be clever in an area in whcih they obviously have no expertise (multimedia), and wrote a straightforward simple guide for the GA pilot. I expect all the magazines have it sensibly decoded, but I haven't checked.
Bernie
In My Computer, open the DVD drive by clicking on it, then double click ATSOCAS.exe.
It's incredibly fragmented and difficult to find simple info about what should be simple things. I gave up and hunted around the net but only found the same thing online. It would help enormously if they stopped trying to be clever in an area in whcih they obviously have no expertise (multimedia), and wrote a straightforward simple guide for the GA pilot. I expect all the magazines have it sensibly decoded, but I haven't checked.
Bernie
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Only a BS "Basic Service" will be provided by both London and Scottish information as A TS "traffic Service" is a radar based service