Fis/basic - ATSOCAS Changes - 12th March
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Bisley
"Only a BS "Basic Service" will be provided by both London and Scottish information as A TS "traffic Service" is a radar based service"
Scottish Information is often provided by their airways controllers. London Info is always provided by Area FISOs......hence the difference.
Scottish Information is often provided by their airways controllers. London Info is always provided by Area FISOs......hence the difference.
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: In a thriving maritime community
Where I would have asked for a RAS, I will ask for a Deconfliction Service. The level of service provided will be subject to controller workload.
Other than that, I don't see many substantial differences.
I think there will be more emphasis on the "take your own terrain clearance" bit even for Traffic Service (althought the pilot is entirely responsible for terrain clearance with a RIS, unless on vectors).
Once again, we're spelling out rules that already exist. It's a bit like now, issuing a VFR clearance, the controller needed to remind you "Remain clear of cloud and with the surface in sight".
We probably wouldn't have had these changes if it wasn't for the Ben Macdui crash, no surprise all over the new ATSOCAS it's branded a "joint civil and military initiative".
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From: An ATC centre this side of the moon.
Scottish Info have been able to provide RIS in the past, so presumably will be able to provide a TS in the future.
Not on 119.875mhz they have not...this frequency is a non radar based FIS only service...as SWANFIS says other Scottish sectors at times will provide a RIS/TS also using the callsign Scottish information.....see "UK Air Pilot" for designated areas.
Not on 119.875mhz they have not...this frequency is a non radar based FIS only service...as SWANFIS says other Scottish sectors at times will provide a RIS/TS also using the callsign Scottish information.....see "UK Air Pilot" for designated areas.
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: UK
If yoiu say you are maintaining 3000 feet ...
That is what other aircraft will be told, and (hopefully) they will all then be part of a coordinated plan to miss you.
If you decide to fly at a different level without telling anybody you could mess up that plan.
If you decide to fly at a different level without telling anybody you could mess up that plan.
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From: An island somewhere
Airbus 38: Deconfliction service will only be provided by a surveillance (radar) unit above their ATC terrain safe altitude. If you are below that level you won't get DS.
Upto The Buffers
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Leeds/Bradford
I think the changes are positive overall. That said, the traditional services are not hard to grasp yet it's scary how many people don't, won't or can't understand what they're entitled to and that what they might be additionally receiving is a bonus because the controller has the grace and capacity to provide it.
Providing services with more obvious titles is progress, but the stupid and ignorant will still be stupid and ignorant.
Providing services with more obvious titles is progress, but the stupid and ignorant will still be stupid and ignorant.
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Cheshire, England
Quote
If anybody can see any startling changes that will make my attitude towards the change fundamentally dangerous, can they let me know?
Time may tell what effect the changes will have. It probably won't be to the detriment of those in high office places. It probably won't be to the advantage of those on the front line, so let us all be careful out there.
If anybody can see any startling changes that will make my attitude towards the change fundamentally dangerous, can they let me know?
Time may tell what effect the changes will have. It probably won't be to the detriment of those in high office places. It probably won't be to the advantage of those on the front line, so let us all be careful out there.
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From: London
If you decide to fly at a different level without telling anybody you could mess up that plan.
Now I have watched the CD it doesn't seem like much has changed beyond now having to ask for a "Basic Service" rather than FIS. Presumably not using the word "maintain" does not imply an agreement.Overheard on Saturday
ATC: What is your estimate for X?
Aircraft: er...um.. er....
(Break in transmission. Long pause)
Aircraft: I don't know. I'll need some time to work it out.
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: UK sometimes
If anyone is in or near the Yorkshire area, I do know a military airfield near Sherburn is offering (with the help of GATCO) an ATSOCAS brief on Sat 7 Mar at 11am It is aimed at all pilots from the ppl to the professional who may have to operate in class G. Landing fees waived (still have the insurance indemnity charge though).
I also know take up has been fairly disappointing with many pilots thinking it is 'just a name change'.
It is strictly ppr though if you're interested.
I also know take up has been fairly disappointing with many pilots thinking it is 'just a name change'.
It is strictly ppr though if you're interested.
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: UK
I attended a similar "brief" a couple of weeks ago and failed to sense any significant changes for the user, except that DS will now be available under VFR as well as IFR ...
JD
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: 32°55'22"S 151°46'56"E
Excellent seminar at Church Fenton, was very good to hear the views of ATC. A few issues significant changes, which could surprise those who haven't read and researched the CD-Rom and information. We were told that the CAA are taking people who fail to acknowledge the changes very seriously, and that they must be reported and may have licenses revoked until they have completed training to understand fully what they are receiving, obviously I think this is at the extreme end of the spectrum.
Also particularly enjoyed flying into a RAF airfield :-)
Also particularly enjoyed flying into a RAF airfield :-)
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From: UK
We were told that the CAA are taking people who fail to acknowledge the changes very seriously, and that they must be reported and may have licenses revoked until they have completed training to understand fully what they are receiving, obviously I think this is at the extreme end of the spectrum.
Who gave the talk - military or civil ATC ?
JD
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
We were told that the CAA are taking people who fail to acknowledge the changes very seriously, and that they must be reported and may have licenses revoked until they have completed training to understand fully what they are receiving,
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: 32°55'22"S 151°46'56"E
Senior Military ATCO, he advised that the CAA have asked them to report anyone who fails to have any knowledge of the changes to the CAA and advise them to land at the nearest airfield for rebriefing.
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Cambridge, England, EU
... it's just like politics these days - too much emphasis on the spin ... and not enough on the substance ...
Here's an experiment for you:
(1) Get yourself elected to something.
(2) Do something.
(3) Try and get the media interested in the substance.
Million to one on you'll fail, especially if whatever-it-is is good news. The only thing you have the remotest chance of getting the media to take an interest in is spin, or bad news, or silly party political squabbling. To be in with a really good chance you have to put all three into your press release.
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: 32°55'22"S 151°46'56"E
What absolutely laughable rubbish! 
He must have been pulling your plonker - nobody with any nouse would take that seriously ...
He must have been pulling your plonker - nobody with any nouse would take that seriously ...
I have no reason or authority to argue with a senior military ATCO, but I do find it annoying that you would throw such a childishly worded comment without explaining or backing up your argument.
On another forum, comments from another seminar by the senior CAA implimentor for the new ATSOCAS has said that that no action would be taken against offenders.
I'm simply repeating what was said for the benefit of those who weren't able to attend a seminar.