NPPL (M) Information Please?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: UK
NPPL (M) Information Please?
Hi,
I plan on starting my NPPL (M) course this weekend on the Ikarus C42 and would like to know more information on it as the internet searches I have done only provide limited confusing information.
Basically what is the major difference between an NPPL (M), a NPPL (A) and JAR PPL (A)?
1) Is it possible to get a Full NPPL (M) license and be able to fly solo / with passengers after the minimum 25hrs? I am confused because some sources say get your NPPL (M) in 25hrs others say 35hrs ... what is it? I know the 25hrs would be bare minimum depending on the individuals flying awsomeness but for example what is the right amount of time?
2) What are the exact conditions I will be allowed to fly in such as weather and range limitations? How do they differ from the other type of license ratings stated above?
3) What are the main differences between restricted and unrestricted licenses?
Well those are the main questions I would like cleared up. I look forward to your help, Thanks in advance!
I plan on starting my NPPL (M) course this weekend on the Ikarus C42 and would like to know more information on it as the internet searches I have done only provide limited confusing information.
Basically what is the major difference between an NPPL (M), a NPPL (A) and JAR PPL (A)?
1) Is it possible to get a Full NPPL (M) license and be able to fly solo / with passengers after the minimum 25hrs? I am confused because some sources say get your NPPL (M) in 25hrs others say 35hrs ... what is it? I know the 25hrs would be bare minimum depending on the individuals flying awsomeness but for example what is the right amount of time?
2) What are the exact conditions I will be allowed to fly in such as weather and range limitations? How do they differ from the other type of license ratings stated above?
3) What are the main differences between restricted and unrestricted licenses?
Well those are the main questions I would like cleared up. I look forward to your help, Thanks in advance!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: ESSEX
i did my NPPL (m) in exactly 25 hours (in a C42) and then traveled all round Europe in the following year (clocked up 150 hours in that year and learnd loads!!)
there are no real restrictions, there is however a reduced licence, solo only and restricted range with a min of 15 hours but stear clear of that.
i have since converted to an SSEA
Dave
there are no real restrictions, there is however a reduced licence, solo only and restricted range with a min of 15 hours but stear clear of that.
i have since converted to an SSEA
Dave
Oh Shazbat!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: Leeds, UK
Hi,
I cannot answer all of your questions, but here goes on the main ones:
1) Is it possible to get a Full NPPL (M) license and be able to fly solo / with passengers after the minimum 25hrs? I am confused because some sources say get your NPPL (M) in 25hrs others say 35hrs ... what is it? I know the 25hrs would be bare minimum depending on the individuals flying awsomeness but for example what is the right amount of time?
The syllabus says you could complete the course in 25 hours minimum and, like C42 above, I am aware of one person who did his in 25 hours at the flying school I went to by booking the training aircraft for a whole week & flying every hour he could in that week. So, in theory (& occassionally in practice) you can do your licence and take people up with you after 25 hours.
However, my NPPL(M) took me 55 hours, mainly due to a combination of old age & trying to fit lessons in against the weather which is a problem with learning in the UK. A few people have commented that after 55 hours I was showing myself to be a more experienced than the chap who did his in 25 hours having experienced various winds; flying in snow showers; landing on sheet ice; going around under the power lines etc that you won't get if you blitz the sylllabus in 25 hours
2) What are the exact conditions I will be allowed to fly in such as weather and range limitations? How do they differ from the other type of license ratings stated above?
This is where I'm not 100% on the various licence limitations. An NPPL(M) limits you to flying in under 15 knot winds, in the hours of daylight, under visual flight rules (best grab a copy of Cosgrove & look it up in there, he explains it very well).
3) What are the main differences between restricted and unrestricted licenses?
Under NPPL(M) - Restircted means you haven't done the navigation exercises yet & so you have to fly within 10nm radius of the airfield. Also you cannot carry passengers. There are a few limited times when a restricted licence is of use - for example if you have bought your own microlight and are keeping it within 10nm of the training airfield. Under a restricted licence you could fly it to & from the training base for further lessons. I'm not aware of anyone actually doing the restricted licence.
Do these help, PM me if you have more questions
I cannot answer all of your questions, but here goes on the main ones:
1) Is it possible to get a Full NPPL (M) license and be able to fly solo / with passengers after the minimum 25hrs? I am confused because some sources say get your NPPL (M) in 25hrs others say 35hrs ... what is it? I know the 25hrs would be bare minimum depending on the individuals flying awsomeness but for example what is the right amount of time?
The syllabus says you could complete the course in 25 hours minimum and, like C42 above, I am aware of one person who did his in 25 hours at the flying school I went to by booking the training aircraft for a whole week & flying every hour he could in that week. So, in theory (& occassionally in practice) you can do your licence and take people up with you after 25 hours.
However, my NPPL(M) took me 55 hours, mainly due to a combination of old age & trying to fit lessons in against the weather which is a problem with learning in the UK. A few people have commented that after 55 hours I was showing myself to be a more experienced than the chap who did his in 25 hours having experienced various winds; flying in snow showers; landing on sheet ice; going around under the power lines etc that you won't get if you blitz the sylllabus in 25 hours
2) What are the exact conditions I will be allowed to fly in such as weather and range limitations? How do they differ from the other type of license ratings stated above?
This is where I'm not 100% on the various licence limitations. An NPPL(M) limits you to flying in under 15 knot winds, in the hours of daylight, under visual flight rules (best grab a copy of Cosgrove & look it up in there, he explains it very well).
3) What are the main differences between restricted and unrestricted licenses?
Under NPPL(M) - Restircted means you haven't done the navigation exercises yet & so you have to fly within 10nm radius of the airfield. Also you cannot carry passengers. There are a few limited times when a restricted licence is of use - for example if you have bought your own microlight and are keeping it within 10nm of the training airfield. Under a restricted licence you could fly it to & from the training base for further lessons. I'm not aware of anyone actually doing the restricted licence.
Do these help, PM me if you have more questions
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: ESSEX
I have not heard the 15knots thing before?? some of my lesons were in winds stronger than that!
As for the 25 hours i am an experienced model pilot and picked it up realy quick. I passed my Skills test before 25 hours then had to do further flights to reach 25 hours.
it also helped that i bought a new C42 to learn on and my instructor devoted himself to me every day and it only took a few weeks from start to finish.
there are guys at our strip that are up into the 50-60 hours in a CTSW (with the same instructor) and not passed yet and another that also did it in 25 hours (CTSW)
Dave
As for the 25 hours i am an experienced model pilot and picked it up realy quick. I passed my Skills test before 25 hours then had to do further flights to reach 25 hours.
it also helped that i bought a new C42 to learn on and my instructor devoted himself to me every day and it only took a few weeks from start to finish.
there are guys at our strip that are up into the 50-60 hours in a CTSW (with the same instructor) and not passed yet and another that also did it in 25 hours (CTSW)
Dave
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,401
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
See LASORS C6.3 for full details of the NPPL (Microlight) and the differences between 'unrestricted' and 'restricted' licence privileges.
The NPPL 'Licence Allowances' document at NPPL gives details of the requirements needed to add a SSEA Class Rating to a NPPL (Microlight).
LASORS C6.2 describes how a NPPL with SSEA Class Rating may be upgraded to a JAR-FCL PPL(A) with SEP Class Rating.
Bear in mind that if your Microlight training has been conducted by a Microlight Instructor who does not hold a JAR-FCL FI (Aeroplane) Rating and only the additional SSEA training has been conducted by such an FI, then you will need to top up the total training time with a FI authorised under JAR-FCL.
For full licence privileges, see ANO Schedule 8. But it isn't easy reading as it's all in 'shall not unless' doublespeak!
The NPPL 'Licence Allowances' document at NPPL gives details of the requirements needed to add a SSEA Class Rating to a NPPL (Microlight).
LASORS C6.2 describes how a NPPL with SSEA Class Rating may be upgraded to a JAR-FCL PPL(A) with SEP Class Rating.
Bear in mind that if your Microlight training has been conducted by a Microlight Instructor who does not hold a JAR-FCL FI (Aeroplane) Rating and only the additional SSEA training has been conducted by such an FI, then you will need to top up the total training time with a FI authorised under JAR-FCL.
For full licence privileges, see ANO Schedule 8. But it isn't easy reading as it's all in 'shall not unless' doublespeak!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 0
From: Hotel this week, hotel next week, home whenever...
"
"Not true. Your flying club may impose wind limits, but the CAA does not. "
An NPPL(M) limits you to flying in under 15 knot winds, "
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,401
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Please read the relevant section of LASORS (C6.3):
When a NPPL(Microlight) is issued with operational
limitations, it will impose the following constraints on the
licence holder:-
Limitation 1:
The licence is valid only for flights within the United
Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man; provided
that it shall be valid for flights within the territory of other
Contracting States with the prior written permission of the
appropriate Authority of such States.
Limitation 2:
No person in addition to the pilot shall be carried in the
aeroplane other than a qualified flying instructor in an
aeroplane equipped with dual controls provided that where
the pilot has gained not less than 25 hours experience on
microlight aeroplanes, including not less than 10 hours as
Pilot-in-Command and such experience has been entered
in his/her personal flying log book and has been certified
by a person authorised by the Authority in writing to sign
Certificates of Test or Certificates of Experience in a
Private Pilot’s Licence, then this Limitation (numbered 2)
shall cease to apply.
Limitation 3:
No flight shall commence or continue unless:
a. the surface wind speed is 15 knots or less, and
b. there is no cloud below 1000 feet above ground level
over the take-off site and over the planned route
including the landing site, and
c. the flight can be conducted in a flight visibility of not
less than 10 kilometres.
Limitation 4:
The aeroplane shall not fly further than 8 nautical miles
from the take-off site.
Limitation 5:
No flight shall commence or continue at night.
Limitation 6:
The aeroplane shall not fly over any congested area of a
city, town or settlement.
Note: The Limitation No. 2 will cease to apply when the
minimum flying experience quoted in the Limitation has
been achieved.
Limitations No. 3 & 4 will be removed from the licence,
upon recommendation to the CAA by the BMAA upon
completion of at least 25 hours experience in microlights,
including at least 5 hours training in flight navigation in
microlights supervised by a flying instructor within the
9 months prior to the date of application for the removal
of the limitations. This navigation training, which forms
part of the BMAA syllabus shall include two solo 40nm
cross-country flights, during each of which the applicant
landed at least at one other site not less than 15nm from
the take-off site at which the flight began. The two solo
cross-country flights must be flown over different routes
and to different sites.
limitations, it will impose the following constraints on the
licence holder:-
Limitation 1:
The licence is valid only for flights within the United
Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man; provided
that it shall be valid for flights within the territory of other
Contracting States with the prior written permission of the
appropriate Authority of such States.
Limitation 2:
No person in addition to the pilot shall be carried in the
aeroplane other than a qualified flying instructor in an
aeroplane equipped with dual controls provided that where
the pilot has gained not less than 25 hours experience on
microlight aeroplanes, including not less than 10 hours as
Pilot-in-Command and such experience has been entered
in his/her personal flying log book and has been certified
by a person authorised by the Authority in writing to sign
Certificates of Test or Certificates of Experience in a
Private Pilot’s Licence, then this Limitation (numbered 2)
shall cease to apply.
Limitation 3:
No flight shall commence or continue unless:
a. the surface wind speed is 15 knots or less, and
b. there is no cloud below 1000 feet above ground level
over the take-off site and over the planned route
including the landing site, and
c. the flight can be conducted in a flight visibility of not
less than 10 kilometres.
Limitation 4:
The aeroplane shall not fly further than 8 nautical miles
from the take-off site.
Limitation 5:
No flight shall commence or continue at night.
Limitation 6:
The aeroplane shall not fly over any congested area of a
city, town or settlement.
Note: The Limitation No. 2 will cease to apply when the
minimum flying experience quoted in the Limitation has
been achieved.
Limitations No. 3 & 4 will be removed from the licence,
upon recommendation to the CAA by the BMAA upon
completion of at least 25 hours experience in microlights,
including at least 5 hours training in flight navigation in
microlights supervised by a flying instructor within the
9 months prior to the date of application for the removal
of the limitations. This navigation training, which forms
part of the BMAA syllabus shall include two solo 40nm
cross-country flights, during each of which the applicant
landed at least at one other site not less than 15nm from
the take-off site at which the flight began. The two solo
cross-country flights must be flown over different routes
and to different sites.
Oh Shazbat!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: Leeds, UK
some of my lesons were in winds stronger than that!
, I think you may mean that sometimes the wind was a stronger 15knots than at other times
it also helped that i bought a new C42 to learn on and my instructor devoted himself to me every day and it only took a few weeks from start to finish.
If you can blitz the training then I'd suggest that you can complete it in the 25 hours or so, but if you're having to do an hour or two every weekend then it will take longer. Where I was able to take a week off & fly every day then I certainly made faster progress.
One piece of hindsight is that I set off on the NPPL(M) journey fully expecting to upgrade to an SSEA rating. imemdiately after the skills test However over time I found I enjoyed the flying (I learnt in a C42), and especially the company of the people at the club where I fly, so for now I'm happy where I am. I guess my advice would be go for the NPPL(M) & see how it goes, worry about other ratings later.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,401
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Plus, of course, the Microlight community are currently not facing the same €urocratic threat from the ridiculous EASA proposals for the 'Leisure Pilot Licence' as are the SSEA and SLMG fraternities.
Enjoy flying your C42 on the NPPL (Microlight) - I'm sure many others will start doing so as well unless EASA can be made to think again......
Enjoy flying your C42 on the NPPL (Microlight) - I'm sure many others will start doing so as well unless EASA can be made to think again......
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: ESSEX
Your dead right BEagle,
I flew my C42 all over Europe, I then upgraded to an NPPL SSEA and now have a 200MPH RV6 that can take me to france in 20 mins, but i now have to ask permision first! LOL!
roll on EASA
I flew my C42 all over Europe, I then upgraded to an NPPL SSEA and now have a 200MPH RV6 that can take me to france in 20 mins, but i now have to ask permision first! LOL!
roll on EASA
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
From: England
quote
When a NPPL(Microlight) is issued with operational
limitations, it will impose the following constraints on the
licence holder:-
Limitation 1:
The licence is valid only for flights within the United
Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man; provided
that it shall be valid for flights within the territory of other
Contracting States with the prior written permission of the
appropriate Authority of such States[/I][/I]
not quite correct, the CI's dont recognise our nppl m for some reason
and you may fly to most European countries, you have to get permission
from each state with the nppl sep, though.
Except Eire who don't accept our medical,
When a NPPL(Microlight) is issued with operational
limitations, it will impose the following constraints on the
licence holder:-
Limitation 1:
The licence is valid only for flights within the United
Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man; provided
that it shall be valid for flights within the territory of other
Contracting States with the prior written permission of the
appropriate Authority of such States[/I][/I]
not quite correct, the CI's dont recognise our nppl m for some reason
and you may fly to most European countries, you have to get permission
from each state with the nppl sep, though.
Except Eire who don't accept our medical,
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: newcastle upon tyne
just to clarify -the 15kt winds limitation is for the restricted licence only.the restricted licence also only allows you to fly within 8 miles of the airfield you took off from.no wind limitations for the unrestricted licence.I might be wrong but I am quite sure that on the restricted licence you cant fly with passengers unless you have 25TT.I done my NPPL(M) in 6 months last year and it took me about 33 hours total. I learnt on the EV-97 and now have a share in a Jabiru.If you have any questions give me a PM 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 0
Bearing in mind Beagle's sad but apposite remarks on EASA's determination to totally destroy conventional GA activity, coupled with my old age weariness at fighting the advancing european bureacracy, just how usable are these C42 microlight type aircraft in terms of cruise speed, carrying capacity and range when restrained by microlight limitations?
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: ESSEX
The C42 will Cruise at 85kts all day long (will go faster) and are lovely to fly and sound on long distances. Good on fuel, and fun.
only problem you will have is if you have 2 large POB and a bit of baggage you dont leave much room for fuel, but (i am going to get shot!) most people accept that it may wander a few pounds over 450KG with everything on board.
this is the same for every microlight in this catagory (CTs are slightly worse off as their empty weight is slightly higher.
Dave
only problem you will have is if you have 2 large POB and a bit of baggage you dont leave much room for fuel, but (i am going to get shot!) most people accept that it may wander a few pounds over 450KG with everything on board.
this is the same for every microlight in this catagory (CTs are slightly worse off as their empty weight is slightly higher.
Dave
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: Basingstoke
I initially got an NPPL SEP, then checked out on the C42 and bought a share in one. Since upgraded for JAR PPL, just to refresh my skills.
My two penneth on the wind issue - 15kt is the C42 crosswind limit, although it can cope with a little more.
Fab aircraft, climbs better than a C150/PA38 or similar, will sit at 85kt burnning 14L an hour. Easy to fly, nice handling plane. There are quite a few former Piper/Cessna pilots at my club who have worked out that it is a better perfoming plane at less than half the cost.
My two penneth on the wind issue - 15kt is the C42 crosswind limit, although it can cope with a little more.
Fab aircraft, climbs better than a C150/PA38 or similar, will sit at 85kt burnning 14L an hour. Easy to fly, nice handling plane. There are quite a few former Piper/Cessna pilots at my club who have worked out that it is a better perfoming plane at less than half the cost.