Light Aircraft down in Staffordshire
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Chessman's first post. He didn't realise the avalanche of hatred that would fall upon him.
How many car crashes have killed people today? Every time we fly there is always the possibility of an accident but that is a calculated risk. Same risk for the PA 140 pilot. Frankly the sentimental RIP stuff is unnecessary IMHO.
How many car crashes have killed people today? Every time we fly there is always the possibility of an accident but that is a calculated risk. Same risk for the PA 140 pilot. Frankly the sentimental RIP stuff is unnecessary IMHO.
Last edited by aviate1138; 2nd Jan 2009 at 16:40. Reason: typo
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First off, condolences to those who have been affected by todays accident. Sad news indeed.
Whats the big deal about a reg being posted? Sky have been blasting part of the reg to the millions on the news?
Whats the big deal about a reg being posted? Sky have been blasting part of the reg to the millions on the news?
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Already been deleted from R&N by super-mods.
It's continuing in the Private Flying forum - and no doubt a "West Coast Mainline" forum (somewhere).
It's continuing in the Private Flying forum - and no doubt a "West Coast Mainline" forum (somewhere).
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It's not an issue about posting the reg, just the timing within hours of the crash. I just think it was a little insensitive to those who flew with the people who perished, who may indeed read this thread.
On a need to know basis we need to know why it crashed ASAP (I also fly a PA28) but do we need to broadcast the victims names yet?
Anyway.... it's hardly a hanging offence so lets move on & find out what happened.
On a need to know basis we need to know why it crashed ASAP (I also fly a PA28) but do we need to broadcast the victims names yet?
Anyway.... it's hardly a hanging offence so lets move on & find out what happened.
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DO you only get facts on the BBC ?
Like it or not this is a RUMOUR network. If you only want facts go to the BBC website.
Seriously - I'm also with Chessman. If anything like that ever happens to me, please do post the reg - it will at least put those not affected to ease.
Not a great start to the year for GA. Guess the journos will now add train lines to the convents/schools/playgrounds, etc...
Posting a registration is not insensitive - it allows us all a quick verification either way whether we knew the a/c involved. Checking on flying friends and family is the reason I logged on to proon having seen tonight's 6 oclock news.
I'm with Chessman et al here. I don't think it insensitive to post information that's already in the public domain (TV news and the Sky web site, and probably elsewhere). What would be insensitive would be to speculate on blame, and no one's yet commenting on the cause, let alone allocating blame.
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I am stunned! I believe this aircraft took off from sittles farm over my house this morning and then was pottering around the local area just as I left to go and book some hours at east mids.
Speechless...
Speechless...
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Let's be sensible. If data is already in the public domain, reporting it here will inform only those who know of the network. An anology is when military personnel are killed on active service: the fact is reported and the name withheld until next of kin are informed. I would hope no networker would access G-INFO and then telephone an owner's spouse!
What will be more instructive for a pilot, is what caused the accident. Was it the result of carb icing?
What will be more instructive for a pilot, is what caused the accident. Was it the result of carb icing?
Last edited by 207592; 2nd Jan 2009 at 18:13. Reason: typo
What will be more instructive for a pilot, is what caused the accident. Was it the result of carb icing?
(2) Given how cold it's been, carb icing seems unlikely, there won't have been much liquid water in the air. Also PA28s tend not to sneak up on you like that with sudden carb icing. That said, I've no doubt it's on the long list of possibilities that AAIB will be looking at.
My sympathies, of course, to the friends and family of those on board. Not a good start to the year.
G
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I also appreciate finding out Registrations as soon as possible once published. That area is also on the number 1 Cross country route from Halfpenny Green (Wolverhampton) and I know many Walsall based pilots (actually living in Walsall myself) who have shares in/or own Piper Aircraft.
It is quite common for News agencies to mix up the type of aircraft on early reports, so knowing it is not one of your friends as early as possible is quite re-assuring.
Meantime, my condolances are with the families and friends of those involved.
It is quite common for News agencies to mix up the type of aircraft on early reports, so knowing it is not one of your friends as early as possible is quite re-assuring.
Meantime, my condolances are with the families and friends of those involved.
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It looks from the witness reports that one wing dropped and it went vertically down at high prop speed.
Nothing left of the aircraft.
A bad and very sad start to the year.
Pace
Nothing left of the aircraft.
A bad and very sad start to the year.
Pace
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Very sad start to the new year....
But as a pilot who likes to keep alive by examining accidents and hopefully learning from them, I'm puzzled by this.
We must of course learn from the AAIB report when it is published, but the accident site would look like a loss of control impact. No apparent mayday / PAN call, doesn't look like forced landing attempt, or maybe loss of control / stall trying to avoid relatively closeby houses.
LF
But as a pilot who likes to keep alive by examining accidents and hopefully learning from them, I'm puzzled by this.
We must of course learn from the AAIB report when it is published, but the accident site would look like a loss of control impact. No apparent mayday / PAN call, doesn't look like forced landing attempt, or maybe loss of control / stall trying to avoid relatively closeby houses.
LF
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Insensitive and stupid comments
Read this on BT Yahoo News,I think her day has been somewhat less spoiled than that of the victims and their families.
Kate Kay, 60, from Wigan, saw the funny side: "I recently just turned 60 and only took the train because I got the cheap pass, I really wish I hadn't bothered now.
"I've no idea when I'm going to get back, it's like travel hell."
"I've no idea when I'm going to get back, it's like travel hell."
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To say I felt sick when I saw the headline is putting it mildly. I learned to fly at HGFC and flew the No1 Xcountry route a few times so the possibility of it being someone I knew is high. I now fly mainly from Shobdon and I have a dreadful feeling that the aircraft was based there. I'm hoping I am wrong but I'm sure there is one with a very similar registration if it isn't that one. This would be the second person / aircraft I know which has crashed in less than 12 months with fatal results. My sympathy to the families and friends of the deceased. RIP.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Okay, if this is a rumour network, what possible causes do we suspect given the witness accounts?
One witness said the aircraft engine was going full tilt so I hardly suspect carb icing. Any cloud about in the area today? Severe airframe icing might lead to loss of control and might account for the impression another eyewitness gave of it "looking like it was doing aerobatics" (witnesses often describe a spin as looking like "aerobatics") and another said it rolled over and went in, leaving little doubt those on board would get out alive.
Sounds to me like the aircraft had totally lost control, the engine still running would indicate perhaps a stuck throttle, which in itself might lead to loss of aircraft control only if the pilot could not trim adequately and stop the pitch up tendancy. Or perhaps an inability to reduce power might suggest they were in a spin and unable to physically reduce power as per spin recovery....
Clouting railways power cables would suggest they were not attempting a standard forced landing without power otherwise they'd have been aiming for somewhere else if rule 5 was being adhered to and we have no reason to suspect it wasn't.
Or maybe inadvertant flight into IMC led to loss of control?
Or pilot incapacitation?
Basically, we don't have a clue.
But one positive outcome from this event and PPRuNe is that we might stop and contemplate a few scenarios which may just lead to us being safer up there in the future. If I go, please speculate freely.
My condolences to those affected in this tragic accident.
VFE.
One witness said the aircraft engine was going full tilt so I hardly suspect carb icing. Any cloud about in the area today? Severe airframe icing might lead to loss of control and might account for the impression another eyewitness gave of it "looking like it was doing aerobatics" (witnesses often describe a spin as looking like "aerobatics") and another said it rolled over and went in, leaving little doubt those on board would get out alive.
Sounds to me like the aircraft had totally lost control, the engine still running would indicate perhaps a stuck throttle, which in itself might lead to loss of aircraft control only if the pilot could not trim adequately and stop the pitch up tendancy. Or perhaps an inability to reduce power might suggest they were in a spin and unable to physically reduce power as per spin recovery....
Clouting railways power cables would suggest they were not attempting a standard forced landing without power otherwise they'd have been aiming for somewhere else if rule 5 was being adhered to and we have no reason to suspect it wasn't.
Or maybe inadvertant flight into IMC led to loss of control?
Or pilot incapacitation?
Basically, we don't have a clue.
But one positive outcome from this event and PPRuNe is that we might stop and contemplate a few scenarios which may just lead to us being safer up there in the future. If I go, please speculate freely.
My condolences to those affected in this tragic accident.
VFE.