EASA clipping CPL(A)'s wings?
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From: Belgium
EASA clipping CPL(A)'s wings?
While browsing through EASA's FCL NPA, I ran across this:
SECTION 2
Specific requirements for the aeroplane category – CPL(A)
FCL.305.A CPL(A) Privileges
in commercial air transport
(a) The holder of a CPL(A) shall only act as pilotincommand in commercial air transport on a singlepilot aeroplane provided that:
(1) When carrying passengers under VFR outside a radius of 50 NM (90 Km) from an aerodrome
of departure, he/she has a minimum of 500 hours of flight time on aeroplanes or holds a
valid instrument rating; or
(2) When operating on a multiengine type under IFR, he/she has a minimum of 700 hours of
flight time on aeroplanes, including 400 hours as pilotincommand.
These hours shall include 100 hours under IFR and 40 hours in multiengine operations. The 400 hours as pilotincommand may be substituted by hours operating as copilot
within an established multipilot crew system prescribed in the Operations Manual, on the basis of two hours of flight time as copilot for one hour of flight time as pilotincommand.
(b) The holder of a CPL(A) shall only act under IFR as a singlepilot
when he/she complies with (a)(2)
and with the applicable requirements prescribed in Subpart OPS of PartMS 2 .
(c) The holder of a CPL(A) shall only act as pilotincommand in commercial air transport in multipilot operations provided that he/she has completed the command course prescribed in Subpart OPS of PartMS 3.
I do not remember ever reading this in the JAR-FCL. Was this ever the case under JAR?
Also, does anyone know what point (b) means? Reference is made to point (a)(2), but this deals with multi-engine aircraft whereas point (b) seems more of a general IFR nature. Where can this Subpart OPS be found by the way?
Thanks.
SECTION 2
Specific requirements for the aeroplane category – CPL(A)
FCL.305.A CPL(A) Privileges
in commercial air transport
(a) The holder of a CPL(A) shall only act as pilotincommand in commercial air transport on a singlepilot aeroplane provided that:
(1) When carrying passengers under VFR outside a radius of 50 NM (90 Km) from an aerodrome
of departure, he/she has a minimum of 500 hours of flight time on aeroplanes or holds a
valid instrument rating; or
(2) When operating on a multiengine type under IFR, he/she has a minimum of 700 hours of
flight time on aeroplanes, including 400 hours as pilotincommand.
These hours shall include 100 hours under IFR and 40 hours in multiengine operations. The 400 hours as pilotincommand may be substituted by hours operating as copilot
within an established multipilot crew system prescribed in the Operations Manual, on the basis of two hours of flight time as copilot for one hour of flight time as pilotincommand.
(b) The holder of a CPL(A) shall only act under IFR as a singlepilot
when he/she complies with (a)(2)
and with the applicable requirements prescribed in Subpart OPS of PartMS 2 .
(c) The holder of a CPL(A) shall only act as pilotincommand in commercial air transport in multipilot operations provided that he/she has completed the command course prescribed in Subpart OPS of PartMS 3.
I do not remember ever reading this in the JAR-FCL. Was this ever the case under JAR?
Also, does anyone know what point (b) means? Reference is made to point (a)(2), but this deals with multi-engine aircraft whereas point (b) seems more of a general IFR nature. Where can this Subpart OPS be found by the way?
Thanks.
Last edited by +200 No Flags; 23rd December 2008 at 10:54.
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From: EuroGA.org
The OPS proposal has not been published yet, and rumour has it that it has been delayed by political objections.
Because many people are rightly unwilling to comment on the FCL proposal until the OPS proposal is out, the comment deadline for the FCL proposal has been extended a couple of times.
I don't know what those CPL regs mean, either. It might represent a concession to foreign licensed CPL(A)/IR pilots (quite a few FAA CPL/IRs are flying N-reg planes wholly privately, myself included) but quite a limited one, or it might apply only to JAA CPLs in which case it is pretty meaningless except to those heading for the AOC scene. Perhaps somebody who has read the whole proposal can explain?
Because many people are rightly unwilling to comment on the FCL proposal until the OPS proposal is out, the comment deadline for the FCL proposal has been extended a couple of times.
I don't know what those CPL regs mean, either. It might represent a concession to foreign licensed CPL(A)/IR pilots (quite a few FAA CPL/IRs are flying N-reg planes wholly privately, myself included) but quite a limited one, or it might apply only to JAA CPLs in which case it is pretty meaningless except to those heading for the AOC scene. Perhaps somebody who has read the whole proposal can explain?
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From: Gt. Yarmouth, Norfolk
It is very similar to Schedule 8 of the ANO 2008! The main difference is that under the ANO you can fly an aircraft under 2300 kg approved for single pilot operation for public transport without an IR(A). Otherwise you are limited to 25 nm.
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From: ...back of the drag curve
isn't a CPL without an IR and without working for an AOC holding operator very nearly practically worthless anyway
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From: EuroGA.org
Well I've got a 'worthless' UK CPL (my IR & ATPL exam credits lapsed years ago) and it does everything I need it to. Not all CPLs fly exotic glass cockpits or even want to fly a winged bus full of chavs, not all work for AOC companies (i.e an instructor) and all of my flying that requires a CPL is done VFR.
you are an INSTRUCTOR and need the CPL to get paid for instructing ?
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From: ...back of the drag curve
you are an INSTRUCTOR and need the CPL to get paid for instructing
PS Not an instructor, never have been. Not sure I'd have the patience or inclination to do it...
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From: UK
Sorry, can't point to any documents. Just know this was the case under JAR from working in the industry but i think LASORS says something about it.
Like people are saying, kind of pointless as most CPL's have an IR or have greater than 500h anyway.
Like people are saying, kind of pointless as most CPL's have an IR or have greater than 500h anyway.
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From: UK
Try JAR-OPS 1.960 http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/jar-ops-1.pdf
JAR-OPS 1.960 Commanders holding a
Commercial Pilot Licence
(a) An operator shall ensure that:
(1) A Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL)
holder does not operate as a commander of an
aeroplane certificated in the Aeroplane Flight
Manual for single pilot operations unless:
(i) When conducting passenger
carrying operations under Visual Flight
Rules (VFR) outside a radius of 50 nm from
an aerodrome of departure, the pilot has a
minimum of 500 hours total flight time on
aeroplanes or holds a valid Instrument
Rating; or
Commercial Pilot Licence
(a) An operator shall ensure that:
(1) A Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL)
holder does not operate as a commander of an
aeroplane certificated in the Aeroplane Flight
Manual for single pilot operations unless:
(i) When conducting passenger
carrying operations under Visual Flight
Rules (VFR) outside a radius of 50 nm from
an aerodrome of departure, the pilot has a
minimum of 500 hours total flight time on
aeroplanes or holds a valid Instrument
Rating; or
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From: EuroGA.org
So what exactly can one do with a CPL, without working for an AOC holder?
1) be a paid pilot for a firm or an individual who provides the plane
2) do charity flights beyond some radius
and obviously 1) is meaningless without an IR, currency, type ratings if applicable.
I'd be interested. I remember asking this very Q here a long time ago, before I had the CPL, and got no meaningful replies.
1) be a paid pilot for a firm or an individual who provides the plane
2) do charity flights beyond some radius
and obviously 1) is meaningless without an IR, currency, type ratings if applicable.
I'd be interested. I remember asking this very Q here a long time ago, before I had the CPL, and got no meaningful replies.
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From: Location: Location:
Chuffer, I do all the other glass cockpit crap you mentioned and would swap you in a heartbeat after the fortnight I've had.
Also all please bear in mind that if Chuffer has a CAA CPL he has an evergreen IMC privileges that NEVER lapse and can get around the UK and Europe IFR quite happily avoiding CLass A
Also all please bear in mind that if Chuffer has a CAA CPL he has an evergreen IMC privileges that NEVER lapse and can get around the UK and Europe IFR quite happily avoiding CLass A
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From: ...back of the drag curve
if Chuffer has a CAA CPL he has an evergreen IMC privileges that NEVER lapse and can get around the UK and Europe IFR quite happily avoiding CLass A
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From: EuroGA.org
He wrote
so I don't think ferrying is very likely because nearly all of that is done under IFR.
But that's a good point, chrisbl, re ferrying. No AOC needed for that one.
my IR & ATPL exam credits lapsed years ago
But that's a good point, chrisbl, re ferrying. No AOC needed for that one.
