Highland Flying Club and HAC
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Highland Flying School and HAC
Despite being close to 1.000 miles away, I was following the Highland Flying Club thread with interest, not least because of the exceptional viciousness of some of the postings.
Shame the thread was puled by the original poster. I had almost got a tea circle assembled to jointly enjoy the goings on......
So in the course of my investigations I ended up on the HAC website, which listed their AGM a having been scheduled for December 7, yesterday
So, sorry, I cannot resist..... who was there and what was said?
Let's restart!
Shame the thread was puled by the original poster. I had almost got a tea circle assembled to jointly enjoy the goings on......
So in the course of my investigations I ended up on the HAC website, which listed their AGM a having been scheduled for December 7, yesterday
So, sorry, I cannot resist..... who was there and what was said?
Let's restart!
Last edited by vanHorck; 10th Dec 2008 at 19:47.
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I haven`t heard anything yet... I didn`t bother going and I doubt I`ll bother asking, some things are best left alone.
What I can say though is that I went to check out the new premises and got a tour from the owner. Sparkies and joiners all over the place, looks like its going to be great, far better located and a far superior set-up.
Everyones spirits were high and there was an air of excitement and optimism. It felt good and I left with a very positive outlook for the school.
I also managed to get up for a flight into a blue cloudless sky with seemingly endless vis, you could clearly see Ben Nevis from overhead the City of Inverness.(thats good vis).
There was loads of other good news, too much to put in one post. All I can say is
....
Oh I almost forgot... you can still contact them on the old number, they have taken it with them.
What I can say though is that I went to check out the new premises and got a tour from the owner. Sparkies and joiners all over the place, looks like its going to be great, far better located and a far superior set-up.
Everyones spirits were high and there was an air of excitement and optimism. It felt good and I left with a very positive outlook for the school.
I also managed to get up for a flight into a blue cloudless sky with seemingly endless vis, you could clearly see Ben Nevis from overhead the City of Inverness.(thats good vis).
There was loads of other good news, too much to put in one post. All I can say is
....Oh I almost forgot... you can still contact them on the old number, they have taken it with them.
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This thread is for facts only. Insinuations and mud slinging which can't be backed up will be culled ... which might also happen to some of the 'usual suspects' who don't heed the warnings.
People have a right to know what's going on, but with that right also comes a responsibility to treat everyone in the saga fairly and courteously.
Play the ball and not the person.
People have a right to know what's going on, but with that right also comes a responsibility to treat everyone in the saga fairly and courteously.
Play the ball and not the person.
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Agreed Mod....
Perhaps my opening post was too sarcastic when i just meant to hear what is new there (factually).
Some of the postings were below the belt in the thread that vanished (pulled by the original poster i understand).
I saw the new website of the school and it looks good. Perhaps the committee will post minutes of the meeting at the HAC and that way we will know if the members have backed the actions of the committee
Perhaps my opening post was too sarcastic when i just meant to hear what is new there (factually).
Some of the postings were below the belt in the thread that vanished (pulled by the original poster i understand).
I saw the new website of the school and it looks good. Perhaps the committee will post minutes of the meeting at the HAC and that way we will know if the members have backed the actions of the committee
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Hi,
The meeting was fairly civilised. Several members expressed their concerns about the nature of the termination and future for the club without any aircraft to hire. The comittee responded that according to the constitution they had the power to terminate the agreement without consulting the members and seem confident in getting something for the members to fly or maybe another school in.
HFS were not invited to the meeting so were not given the chance to give us there side of the story.
My impression is that the school were very happy to leave and the comittee members are very happy to get there building back to themselves.
Hopefully things will work out ok for everyone. I am looking forward to seeing the schools new place. Personally I am not one to socialise much in club style activities and was only a member in order to fly the flying school aircraft, so think I will not be in a rush to renew my club membership. Maybe if they get an interesting aircraft for the members I would change my mind. Chipmunk, Supercub...
SF.
The meeting was fairly civilised. Several members expressed their concerns about the nature of the termination and future for the club without any aircraft to hire. The comittee responded that according to the constitution they had the power to terminate the agreement without consulting the members and seem confident in getting something for the members to fly or maybe another school in.
HFS were not invited to the meeting so were not given the chance to give us there side of the story.
My impression is that the school were very happy to leave and the comittee members are very happy to get there building back to themselves.
Hopefully things will work out ok for everyone. I am looking forward to seeing the schools new place. Personally I am not one to socialise much in club style activities and was only a member in order to fly the flying school aircraft, so think I will not be in a rush to renew my club membership. Maybe if they get an interesting aircraft for the members I would change my mind. Chipmunk, Supercub...
SF.
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Im a very satisfied past customer of HFS. At the time I was rather envious of the apparent close relationship between HFS and HAC. Just shows things are never quite as they seem.
I was under the impression that in order to undertake flight training, it was legal requirement to be a member of a flying club ?
Hence why many commercial flying schools have psuedo flying clubs attached to them. This is certainly the case at my flying school/club where the constitution states :
"The proprietor of the Club is XXXX Limited. All the property of the Club is vested in the said Company and all entrance fees, subscriptions, charges for tuition in flying and other payments of the said Company. The Company shall have the complete management and control of the Club, and shall be soley responsible for the employment of staff, the provision of Club buildings, and of all things necessary for carrying on the Club to such persons of Companies as they may think fit.
Except as in these Rules otherwise provided, the Company shall have entire control over all matters of finance in connection with the Club, and shall fix and may from time to time vary the amount of any Entrance Fee, the rate of subscription, the number of Members, the conditions of Membership, the scale of all charges and the admission of Private Owner Members"
There is of course a Committee elected by the membership however it seems to have very little teeth and perhaps exists primarily to satisfy and legal requirements.
I was under the impression that in order to undertake flight training, it was legal requirement to be a member of a flying club ?
Hence why many commercial flying schools have psuedo flying clubs attached to them. This is certainly the case at my flying school/club where the constitution states :
"The proprietor of the Club is XXXX Limited. All the property of the Club is vested in the said Company and all entrance fees, subscriptions, charges for tuition in flying and other payments of the said Company. The Company shall have the complete management and control of the Club, and shall be soley responsible for the employment of staff, the provision of Club buildings, and of all things necessary for carrying on the Club to such persons of Companies as they may think fit.
Except as in these Rules otherwise provided, the Company shall have entire control over all matters of finance in connection with the Club, and shall fix and may from time to time vary the amount of any Entrance Fee, the rate of subscription, the number of Members, the conditions of Membership, the scale of all charges and the admission of Private Owner Members"
There is of course a Committee elected by the membership however it seems to have very little teeth and perhaps exists primarily to satisfy and legal requirements.
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I did not get to the AGM either, too far to go late on a Sunday. The statement on the HAC website from the Chairperson of HAC did not elaborate beyond what they had previously stated.
I have however seen some more detailed info now and I have not changed my mind regarding HFS. Like others on this thread and I believe many current HAC members, I joined because I was told to when I was a student. I go there to use the aircraft which belong to HFS. I go there because I enjoy flying in a congenial atmosphere.
In terms of the clause used by the committee, yes I understand that they were legally empowered to use it. However, the AGM was only 2 weeks away and in my view the issues were too serious and the impact too far reaching for a committee to act without member consultation. They had a golden opportunity to consult the membership and gain support for their case and they chose to act in haste rather than do so. So in my view the spirit of the constitution was ignored and the letter of the law used with undue haste. That alone in my view is reason to have concerns.
For my part I will not renew my HAC memebrship and I will continue to fly HFS aircraft ( I am not a student). In my view HAC's actions have done nothing to promote the founding principle of the club constitution.. to promote flying in the highlands.
I think it is for the best that both parties have gone their separate ways since it is clear that there are two distinct cultures present that appear to be incompatible.
As for a new FTO, ihmo Inverness does not need a new FTO, it has one. However the Highland Aero Club members do need a club aircraft to fly.
I hope once the dust settles that we can all get along without cutting each other up at Foxtrot.
7143
I have however seen some more detailed info now and I have not changed my mind regarding HFS. Like others on this thread and I believe many current HAC members, I joined because I was told to when I was a student. I go there to use the aircraft which belong to HFS. I go there because I enjoy flying in a congenial atmosphere.
In terms of the clause used by the committee, yes I understand that they were legally empowered to use it. However, the AGM was only 2 weeks away and in my view the issues were too serious and the impact too far reaching for a committee to act without member consultation. They had a golden opportunity to consult the membership and gain support for their case and they chose to act in haste rather than do so. So in my view the spirit of the constitution was ignored and the letter of the law used with undue haste. That alone in my view is reason to have concerns.
For my part I will not renew my HAC memebrship and I will continue to fly HFS aircraft ( I am not a student). In my view HAC's actions have done nothing to promote the founding principle of the club constitution.. to promote flying in the highlands.
I think it is for the best that both parties have gone their separate ways since it is clear that there are two distinct cultures present that appear to be incompatible.
As for a new FTO, ihmo Inverness does not need a new FTO, it has one. However the Highland Aero Club members do need a club aircraft to fly.
I hope once the dust settles that we can all get along without cutting each other up at Foxtrot.
7143
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What a sad story......
So the outcome can be twofold:
Either the club manages to attract another school or other organisation which can bring planes to the club, meaning additional competition and perhaps
reduced profitability for both operators
or
The club does not manage to do this and the club goes under
I would agree with the last poster that with an AGM coming up within weeks, it seems authoritarian and not in the spirit of a club mentality to use the powers of the committee to take such a decision without consultation of the members
The question however remains: why did the committee take such drastic action without consultation, were committee members truly acting on behalf of the club and her interests or was (were) there personal feud(s) between the school management and (some) committee members?
So the outcome can be twofold:
Either the club manages to attract another school or other organisation which can bring planes to the club, meaning additional competition and perhaps
reduced profitability for both operators
or
The club does not manage to do this and the club goes under
I would agree with the last poster that with an AGM coming up within weeks, it seems authoritarian and not in the spirit of a club mentality to use the powers of the committee to take such a decision without consultation of the members
The question however remains: why did the committee take such drastic action without consultation, were committee members truly acting on behalf of the club and her interests or was (were) there personal feud(s) between the school management and (some) committee members?
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Flight training and club membership
I'm not sure it's true that there is a legal requirement to be a member of a flying club to undertake flight training. I think I'm right in saying that rule ONLY applies if the aircraft being used for the training is owned and/or operated by a flying club. I can't find anything in LASORS to the contrary, and I've done type training with other organisations in the UK without having to join any clubs.
Therefore, as HAC don't own or operate any aircraft, it seems strange that they stated this as being one of the many reasons for the "divorce".
I went to the AGM, and came away feeling extremely frustrated. I won't be renewing my membership, but I am looking forward to visiting the new HFS facilities on a regular basis.
Therefore, as HAC don't own or operate any aircraft, it seems strange that they stated this as being one of the many reasons for the "divorce".
I went to the AGM, and came away feeling extremely frustrated. I won't be renewing my membership, but I am looking forward to visiting the new HFS facilities on a regular basis.
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There is a technicality that students and their FI's should be members of the same club/organisation.
Easily dealt with though. A bit of paper with your details on and Bob's your uncle and you're a member.
One bit of pedantry here. HFS are NOT an FTO, they are a registered training facility.
Easily dealt with though. A bit of paper with your details on and Bob's your uncle and you're a member.
One bit of pedantry here. HFS are NOT an FTO, they are a registered training facility.
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Monty python rings a bell
the peoples front for flying in the highlands???
the peoples popular front for flying in the highlands ??? splitters !!!
all must look slightly mad from outside
all points at the agm were dealt with admirably.
i dont think the committee had any other choice as the flying school had already given notice to quit
the aero club are activly in talks with other parties to bring in modern aircraft so wont be to long untill there will be aircraft to hire
its good to see hfs have a new building as all pilots love to fly new buildings????
happy flying everone this is truly a stuning place to fly especialy today snow on the hills clear blue skies almost no wind and big vis
the peoples popular front for flying in the highlands ??? splitters !!!
all must look slightly mad from outside
all points at the agm were dealt with admirably.
i dont think the committee had any other choice as the flying school had already given notice to quit
the aero club are activly in talks with other parties to bring in modern aircraft so wont be to long untill there will be aircraft to hire
its good to see hfs have a new building as all pilots love to fly new buildings????
happy flying everone this is truly a stuning place to fly especialy today snow on the hills clear blue skies almost no wind and big vis
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Welcome back no bearde woman
Glad to hear that the committee was able to deal well with the AGM, and that the members were happy with the committee's actions
Also glad to hear you wish the school all the best in their new premises, the world being big enough for all of us.
I am confident the school also wishes the club all the best.
What i didn't know (or didn't register) was that the school had already informed the club that they wished to leave the club's premises... So i guess the decision of the committee was merely to expediate the split?
There is no doubt all pilots in your area of the world will fly where they feel most welcome and where they get a good deal for a good plane.
Happy and safe flying to all concerned!
Glad to hear that the committee was able to deal well with the AGM, and that the members were happy with the committee's actions
Also glad to hear you wish the school all the best in their new premises, the world being big enough for all of us.
I am confident the school also wishes the club all the best.
What i didn't know (or didn't register) was that the school had already informed the club that they wished to leave the club's premises... So i guess the decision of the committee was merely to expediate the split?
There is no doubt all pilots in your area of the world will fly where they feel most welcome and where they get a good deal for a good plane.
Happy and safe flying to all concerned!
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No bearde person
You are definitely not reflecting the views of many of the members who attended the AGM and the vast majority of ordinary members who couldn't be arsed going.
1. The points at the AGM were NOT dealt with adequately, or indeed truthfully.
2. The committee DID have a choice, but they made the WRONG one.
3. How can you possibly call a 30 year old Piper Tomahawk modern?
Note to moderator:- please block Bearde Person from posting anything else, because all he does is upset people!
1. The points at the AGM were NOT dealt with adequately, or indeed truthfully.
2. The committee DID have a choice, but they made the WRONG one.
3. How can you possibly call a 30 year old Piper Tomahawk modern?
Note to moderator:- please block Bearde Person from posting anything else, because all he does is upset people!
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you seem to no more than me !!
pray tell what aircraft you are refering to ????
it would be of some value to everyone
as to the agm
which parts of the meeting didnt you understand??
it would be of some value to everyone
as to the agm
which parts of the meeting didnt you understand??
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pray tell what aircraft you are refering to ????
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ok dear friends on both sides of the argument,
no bearde woman on the one hand, obviously on the committee or at least on the committee's side
and
the other posters on the other side
You obviously wish to hurt each other publicly.
So let s try to do this in a proper way
No Bearde woman gives his representation of the discussion regarding the parting of the School in the AGM, preferably without emotion, stating facts
The other side then does the same, given facts on the meeting without emotions
Then us mere mortals will give you a verdict on the AGM
Also i saw the club has just announced member need to renew their club membership. There can be no better way to settle this argument than waiting till end of January and see what percentage of members decided to remain in the club
and what percentage registered in some form with the school
Is that fair?
Finally, live and let live. The club will survive if it took a good decision, the school will survive if it runs a profitable and customer oriented business.
None of us readers of this forum would want a bloodbath in the Highlands!
no bearde woman on the one hand, obviously on the committee or at least on the committee's side
and
the other posters on the other side
You obviously wish to hurt each other publicly.
So let s try to do this in a proper way
No Bearde woman gives his representation of the discussion regarding the parting of the School in the AGM, preferably without emotion, stating facts
The other side then does the same, given facts on the meeting without emotions
Then us mere mortals will give you a verdict on the AGM
Also i saw the club has just announced member need to renew their club membership. There can be no better way to settle this argument than waiting till end of January and see what percentage of members decided to remain in the club
and what percentage registered in some form with the school Is that fair?
Finally, live and let live. The club will survive if it took a good decision, the school will survive if it runs a profitable and customer oriented business.
None of us readers of this forum would want a bloodbath in the Highlands!
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Its not as bad as the clearances of the 1700`s but may go down in history just the same.
Van has a point, honest opinions with facts from both sides. I doubt it`ll happen but January`s figures should tell us something.
And I thought it was all porridge and old clothes after new year, now I have something else to look forward to.
Van has a point, honest opinions with facts from both sides. I doubt it`ll happen but January`s figures should tell us something.
And I thought it was all porridge and old clothes after new year, now I have something else to look forward to.
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this is interesting
just watching the 90 th of the raf
if they were behaving like us mere mortals we would certainly have lost the war
the facts were indeed given to those that were at the agm
however the past is the past onwards and upwards we should fly
where ever and how ever
lets have fun and lots of it
if they were behaving like us mere mortals we would certainly have lost the war
the facts were indeed given to those that were at the agm
however the past is the past onwards and upwards we should fly
where ever and how ever
lets have fun and lots of it