Nightmare on second solo

[DavidHoul52]

I am referring to the November AAIB report

During the flare of a touch-and-go on Runway 22 at Full Sutton Airfield, Yorkshire, the student pilot noticed a glider landing in the opposite direction. He pushed forward on the control column in an attempt to stop quickly and avoid colliding with the glider. This resulted in the aircraft landing on its nosewheel, which subsequently collapsed, causing damage to the propeller and shock-loading the engine.

Although this resulted in damage to the aircraft it seems to me the student pilot showed an amazing presence of mind and cool despite lack of experience. In hindsight is there anything he could have done differently to avoid the glider?

[Johnm]

Not being there it's very hard to say and he ended up stopped with only a slightly damaged aeroplane so good on him. He might have done better to apply full throttle and execute a climbing right turn if circumstances allowed, but he probably wasn't sure what the glider was going to do! It's always tempting to get comfortably on the ground but if the donkey's happy, air room (like sea room in a ship) is usually the best option. AIUI that's why the Ryanair in Rome was aiming to go around rather than land when it lost a donkey, unfortunately it promptly lost the second one and a rapid forced landing became the only option.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Without knowing the range and relative height of the glider, there is more than one successful alternative but the choice is dependant.

[IO540]

It's impossible to say without knowing the details, but in general just pushing on the yoke isn't going to make the plane land. The only way to make a plane land is to dump the speed, somehow. Just pushing on the yoke will not make it slow down; it will just push it into ground effect which keeps it gliding (or bouncing) along the runway, without slowing down very much. Unless one pushes hard enough to collapse the nosegear in which case the plane will slow down allright but only through the remains of the prop and cowlings grinding grooves in the tarmac.

If one is airborne then a full power go-around is the best way.

If one is on the runway then cutting the engine, jumping on the brakes, and perhaps driving the plane off the runway, would be the best way.

The Ryanair thing was different - they had no engine power to play with so had to go down.

[Dr Jekyll]

You could argue that a collision on the ground is going to be preferable to one in the air, so I can understand the pilots desire to wind the altimeter to zero first and worry about options later.

[C172 Hawk XP]

opposite direction ?? . . . . same runway ??

the student pilot noticed a glider landing in the opposite direction

Well done to the inexperienced SPL for resolving the matter in such a manner that he walked away unhurt . . . . . .

. . . . . . . but surely we should be asking how on EARTH was such a situation allowed to happen in the first place ?

[oversteer]

Full report here:
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resou...EU%2011-08.pdf

No wind so the landing direction probably wasn't obvious, especially if you are panicking about large amounts of sink and haven't seen any traffic in the circuit.

My take is that if you have not requested permission to land at an active airfield then you shouldn't be landing on the runway at all - land to the side or elsewhere as necessary. Treat it as a field landing.

[Captain Smithy]

Nightmare on second solo indeed.

I'd say that unless any of us were in the situation, faced with making a split-second decision and armed with your unique perception, we should not go debating who and what was right and wrong, what was the right thing to do, who was at fault etc., ergo we have no right to judge.

What would I have done? Gawd knows. I wasn't there so I can't possibly comment.

For me, the main thing here is that casualties were avoided, which itself can only be the best outcome. That's all I can say.

Smithy.

[C172 Hawk XP]

Having read the AAIB report (thanks for posting that BTW), it now seems clear that the glider pilot acknowledged a lot of responsibility, and apologised. Use of radio mandatory, but he didn't.

Once again, well done to the SPL. The aeroplane can be repaired !

[RatherBeFlying]

In a glider I tune in to the local frequencies when flying cross-country. Usually I just listen in, but do call in if there's any possible conflict.

I have heard one airport reporting a silent glider lurking about with nobody knowing his intentions. That's defintely time to make a call.

When a glider is 2000 AGL or lower, he should be looking out for a place to land and that's the time to let others know that you will be landing if you don't find lift in the next 1000' or so.

It's not good manners to be circling in an active downwind; so it helps to plan on a mid-downwind join or opposite circuit and let other traffic in on the plan.

Gliders normally fly a tight circuit; so it can get sticky when others are flying 3-mile finals.

[BackPacker]

...but he probably wasn't sure what the glider was going to do!

It may be bleeding obvious to most, but gliders don't do go-arounds or touch & gos. A glider on final is going to land, come hell or high water. On any spot that he deems suitable - which does not necessarily have to be the runway. If there's something or somebody in the way they'll just land next to it with a few meters clearance. Or they'll land short and come to a stop a few meters from you. Or even overfly you at three meters and put the glider down behind you. These guys are very, very creative in picking a safe landing spot.

Not being able to execute a go-around is one reason, but they also cannot taxi away from the landing zone under their own power. So they need to be pulled out with a tractor, golfcart or by hand, which takes time. If there's a cluster of gliders that have landed already they'll try to land and stop as close to that cluster as safely possible, so that the rest of the landing area stays clear for other aircraft.

I was doing a weeks glider course this spring. At the end of the week, after about 15 flights, I was able to put the glider down on a strip of grass that was about three meters wide and 75 meters long, and come to a rest, as intended, a meter or two from the far edge of the field. It was the only bit of grass that didn't have menure on it, so we had good reason to land there.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Well, the AAIB report (thanks for posting, incidentally) doesn't really add much to our overall picture;

Whilst in the landing flare, he became aware of a glider coming towards him in the opposite direction "filling the windscreen."

and

The student pilot added that he came to rest about 250 m from the threshold of Runway 22, approximately 100 m from the glider; his instructor estimated that the two aircraft were about 200 m apart when they stopped.

On the basis of that, I don't honestly know what I would have done on my second solo. I'm pretty certain that, 27 years later, I would have elected missed approach, go around with full power away from the glider but careful of obstructions. I'd be pretty certain that the glider wouldn't making the same choice.

Who knows? we weren't there. He walked away from a repairable A/C, so he deserves some credit.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

It's all very well from the comfort of one's armchair, with hundreds or thousands of hours experience, to say I would have gone around. For a second solo student, doing everything correctly and then being faced with a potential head on collision, I would say he did very well to walk away with only minor damage to the aircraft.

Very bad drills, I would suggest, for the more experienced glider pilot to land against the traffic at an active airfield without talking to anyone. Steam may well give way to sail, but that does not absolve sail from responsibility for common sense and airmanship. I hope he bought the solo stude a slab of beer!

[RatherBeFlying]

I suspect one of the reasons gliders often fail to call in when dropping in is that students can go all the way to license without ever having to look up and change the radio frequency.

Perhaps instructors should make students check the altimeter setting from a nearby ATIS.

[ProfChrisReed]

I suspect the glider pilot was not vastly more experienced in landing (other than at home) than the 2nd solo pilot. The clue is in the last paragraph of the AAIB report:

As a result of this accident the glider pilot’s Chief Flying Instructor debriefed him and re-educated him on radio techniques and how to stay within gliding range of his operating base.

Glider pilots are required by their clubs to stay within gliding range of their launching airfield until they have gained their cross-country endorsement. It is likely, therefore, that this glider pilot had no real experience in field landing, and thus no competence or confidence. He misjudged his height for returning home (badly, because the nearest gliding site is some miles away) and had to land somewhere. In these circumstances a runway would appear miraculous (and given the pilot's work load, probably seemed to appear literally out of nowhere, explaining the rushed circuit in the opposite direction to other landing traffic).

As this was "the second time the pilot had landed out in over 1,000 flights", I'd further speculate that what we have here is the Fotherington-Thomas species (ref: Molesworth) - flying around singing "Hello birds, hello nice cumulus" until caught by surprise that the nice cumulus wasn't working as expected.

I recognise that I, with fewer flights but many more field landings, might be caught out by unexpected heavy sink, miss noticing the circuit direction and land the wrong way, though I hope not. In those circumstances I'd be attempting XC flight, and would screw up because I'd left my field selection too late. But this pilot, if he was restricted to local soaring and complying with that restriction, must have been 3,000 ft or so agl when things started to go wrong, with plenty of time to look for potential landing sites and review the airfield traffic. From 1,000 flights, even if 998 were within gliding range, I'd have expected far more situational awareness.

Well done the 2nd solo pilot. I agree about the slab of beer!

[AMEandPPL]

May I add my congratulations, too, to the novice SPL for resolving this situation in such a way that he walked away from a repairable aeroplane !

Not the sort of problem, let's face it, that you'd expect to be able to look up the answer in a text book !

[Final 3 Greens]

This reminds me of the press reports one sees, from time to time, of people who get confused and manage to drive the wrong way down a motorway.

The difference is that it is not treated as "bad manners" and redressed by "a slab of beer" or a rebuke from the police.

[cats_five]

I also was surprised at only 2 landouts in over 1,000 flights - certainly not a path I seem to be following!

However it can be very easy to get caught out if there is wave about - the Cu works wonderfully well under the 'up' and then one hits a patch under the 'down' and can go from well above to well below the glide slope remarkably quickly. It helps to have a suitable field already picked... 'A massive amount of sink' does fit with wave interference, and the general area is certainly subject to wave.

The other thing the report doesn't mention is if the glider pilot had enough height to do enough of a circuit and land in the same direction as the other traffic.

[oversteer]

In this situation can the glider pilot actually use the radio to request landing permission? Assuming that he did not have a radio licence. I'd guess that the tower would not be monitoring the gliding frequencies?

[BackPacker]

In this situation can the glider pilot actually use the radio to request landing permission?

Full Sutton is an uncontrolled field with A/G service only. A/G cannot give landing permission, only airfield information like circuit direction and runway in use.

However, my flight guide has this to say about Full Sutton: "PPR. Non-radio ACFT not accepted. Radio use is mandatory." and "Intensive gliding at Pocklington, 4nm SE of AD."

Assuming that he did not have a radio licence.

From personal experience I can testify that glider pilots, at least initially, seem to fear the radio like the plague. During my weeks long glider course my instructor did not use the radio once. In fact, I don't think we even had a mike on board.

There's a few glider frequencies that are exempt from the requirement of holding a radio license. A typical A/G frequency would not be exempt so yes, you need a radio license, but that's something that's only acquired rather late in your glider flying career. Not, like in powered flying, together with your PPL.

So the glider pilot may or may not have had a radio license. Nevertheless, if the situation was developing as rapidly as some have suggested earlier (poor situational awareness combined with a high sink rate due to wave), even with a radio license, he might not have time to figure out what airfield he was at, look up the frequency, select it and make the call. My flight guide also doesn't show a signals square at Full Sutton so without a radio it would be impossible to know the circuit direction and runway in use. Unless you spot and follow circuit traffic, of course.

But even if he were to know the circuit direction and flew a neat pattern, conforming with the other traffic, it would have been bad form to land *on* the runway. After all, gliders can't taxi clear but need to be pulled/pushed clear. When you land at a field which doesn't normally receive gliders, and also doesn't have a fire crew standby, it may take several minutes before people realize what is happening and a group of two-three people has been assembled to push the glider clear of the runway.

I'd guess that the tower would not be monitoring the gliding frequencies?

As said, we're not talking about a "tower" here, but an A/G frequency, which would be addressed as "Full Sutton Radio" - despite the fact that they are probably sitting in an air-traffic-control-tower-like-structure. But yes, you can bet they won't be monitoring the gliding frequencies - after all there are no gliding activities supposed to take place at Full Sutton.

The only thing that theoretically could have happened is that he would broadcast his intention to land at Full Sutton on the Pocklington Glider Ops frequency, and that somebody at Pocklington would give Full Sutton a phonecall to warn them of a glider dropping in unannounced. Full Sutton would then be able to warn the aircraft in the circuit. Lots of if's in that scenario though.