Censorship
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Censorship
Why was the thread about Bill Knott's very unfortunate accident at Fishburn locked ?
The gents were OK after examination, this is a further example of related problems with the nosewheel RV's and should be discussed and commented on.
What was upsetting - the response from the various services.
2 helicopters
2 fire engines
4 paramedics
2 ambulances
10 police cars.
Was it a quiet afternoon ?
All the best to Bill and his passenger.
The gents were OK after examination, this is a further example of related problems with the nosewheel RV's and should be discussed and commented on.
What was upsetting - the response from the various services.
2 helicopters
2 fire engines
4 paramedics
2 ambulances
10 police cars.
Was it a quiet afternoon ?
All the best to Bill and his passenger.
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I had nothing to do with it - but my *guess* is that the thread to which you refer was started this morning, shortly after 7am, when the poster didn't bother to check (or simply didn't notice) that there was already a thread running which started shortly after midday, yesterday.
Few stories desereve two threads running at the same time.
What were you saying about censorship?
RTFF!
=^..^=
Few stories desereve two threads running at the same time.
What were you saying about censorship?
RTFF!
=^..^=
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There was a thread already running on the incident so it got locked. I don't know it by Trimdon either but both threads lead to the same incident. I just locked on as a matter of course really. If you call that "Censorship" then my name is Dave.
Cusco, I have no idea what link you are talking about.
I generally leave threads with links to Flyer now as it is not worth the hassle of millions of PM's and emails moaning about it!!!!
Cusco, I have no idea what link you are talking about.
I generally leave threads with links to Flyer now as it is not worth the hassle of millions of PM's and emails moaning about it!!!!
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Javelin, why are you so keen to criticise the emergency services?
I am told that one of the two helicopters which attended was summoned, the other was positioning enroute & being in possesion of only basic details, went to render any extra assistance which may have possibly been required.
The premis of most of the emergency services, especially when any sort of aircraft is involved, is to assume the worst, especially if there is some doubt as to the exact location of incident, (i.e is it near housing, property, industrial areas etc), which is why such a substantial number of them were dispatched.
Upon arrival, they assess the actual need for their services and then stand down anyone who isn't required.
God forbid that you should ever be involved in a serious incident or a crash, but if you are, perhaps you'd prefer just the village Constable to respond on his bike with a water pistol?
I am told that one of the two helicopters which attended was summoned, the other was positioning enroute & being in possesion of only basic details, went to render any extra assistance which may have possibly been required.
The premis of most of the emergency services, especially when any sort of aircraft is involved, is to assume the worst, especially if there is some doubt as to the exact location of incident, (i.e is it near housing, property, industrial areas etc), which is why such a substantial number of them were dispatched.
Upon arrival, they assess the actual need for their services and then stand down anyone who isn't required.
God forbid that you should ever be involved in a serious incident or a crash, but if you are, perhaps you'd prefer just the village Constable to respond on his bike with a water pistol?
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I would have thought the emergency service response was heartening. If I have an accident, I hope as many emergency units attend as possible! It's easy to send them away if not needed.
dp
dp
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In addition to my responsibilites in aviation, I'm also a volunteer firefighter. We get called out many times for emergencies which either are not at all, or are not what they sound like when the call comes in. Always remember that most of the calls for emergency services are placed by people who are stressed, and not sure what, or where the emergancy is.
Today, we responded to three false calls. One an over heated car on the side of the road, which the passing caller said was "on fire". We ran four trucks and ten firefighters to that one. The next two calls both needed me to fly, in addition to the other responding personnel and equipment. It was a good day, nobody actually needed our help! But we were ready in any case!
We would all much rather overkill than underkill, in provision of service. After all, if you were called to a "plane crash" how much equipment would you take? How big is the plane?
Pilot DAR
Today, we responded to three false calls. One an over heated car on the side of the road, which the passing caller said was "on fire". We ran four trucks and ten firefighters to that one. The next two calls both needed me to fly, in addition to the other responding personnel and equipment. It was a good day, nobody actually needed our help! But we were ready in any case!
We would all much rather overkill than underkill, in provision of service. After all, if you were called to a "plane crash" how much equipment would you take? How big is the plane?
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Indeed overkill is better than underkill.
However I would just mention that with anything "aviation" you get huge chinese whispers and somebody reporting say "an electrical problem" is likely to be "fire in the cockpit" by the time it reaches the fire service coordinator. I once had this (and did report it was sorted by switching off the relevant bits) and got four fire engines, several ambulances, loads of stuff from all over the place. I spoke to them afterwards and indeed the information I passed to ATC when in the air got heavily modified.
The press also love aviation accidents so turn up in force. Much more fun for a low grade local hack desperate to make the grade than the latest underfunding case of a nursery school etc.
However I would just mention that with anything "aviation" you get huge chinese whispers and somebody reporting say "an electrical problem" is likely to be "fire in the cockpit" by the time it reaches the fire service coordinator. I once had this (and did report it was sorted by switching off the relevant bits) and got four fire engines, several ambulances, loads of stuff from all over the place. I spoke to them afterwards and indeed the information I passed to ATC when in the air got heavily modified.
The press also love aviation accidents so turn up in force. Much more fun for a low grade local hack desperate to make the grade than the latest underfunding case of a nursery school etc.
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However I would just mention that with anything "aviation" you get huge chinese whispers and somebody reporting say "an electrical problem" is likely to be "fire in the cockpit" by the time it reaches the fire service coordinator. I once had this (and did report it was sorted by switching off the relevant bits) and got four fire engines, several ambulances, loads of stuff from all over the place. I spoke to them afterwards and indeed the information I passed to ATC when in the air got heavily modified.
You would expect that if someone at the start of the chain mentions "electrical problem", then that would be passed on as "electrical problem" not "total electric failure" or "electric fire". It's not like your average bloke driving along and seeing smoke/steam coming out of a car, dialing the emergency number and reporting "on fire".
Anyone with more experience in emergency communications who can explain this?
Granted, overkill is better than underkill and hey, if you land at a reasonably-sized field, there is dedicated emergency cover there, with nothing else to do anyway.
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A few years ago my aircraft was involved in an accident and the airport crash crew, ambulance, fire crew, and locally based police helicopter all responded. Even though none of them were actually needed, I was very pleased to see the professional and fast response.
There seemed to be nothing else happening that day, as what seemed like the whole of the local constabulary showed up and, against the specific instructions of the airport, raced out onto the runway and parked up at the end - closing the airport for an hour (note my plane was in a field 1/4 mile away)!
Overkill from the rescue service is always better than underkill - I do sometimes wonder through about the level of police deployment to some events.
There seemed to be nothing else happening that day, as what seemed like the whole of the local constabulary showed up and, against the specific instructions of the airport, raced out onto the runway and parked up at the end - closing the airport for an hour (note my plane was in a field 1/4 mile away)!
Overkill from the rescue service is always better than underkill - I do sometimes wonder through about the level of police deployment to some events.
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I once "considered" declaring a medical emergency when feeling unwell whilst flying a PA28 into Manchester (UK) one night - long story and irrelevant to this thread.
A subsequent conversation with ATC during a tower visit there a few days later, the controller stated that he would have actioned a full emergency. Big red button stuff.
When his colleagues asked him "Why - for a four seat aircraft", his response was "What if the sick pilot landed on top of a 747 at the hold, or flew through the windows of the terminal building restaurant".
A subsequent conversation with ATC during a tower visit there a few days later, the controller stated that he would have actioned a full emergency. Big red button stuff.
When his colleagues asked him "Why - for a four seat aircraft", his response was "What if the sick pilot landed on top of a 747 at the hold, or flew through the windows of the terminal building restaurant".
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The very professional people who work in the emergency services deserve to be applauded.
Now.....................
You only have so many resources, you have to prioritise things and you should despatch services appropriately.
As a commercial and private pilot I understand the stresses involved when an aeroplane is involved in an accident or incident.
This particular incident involved a 2 seat light aeroplane, on an airfield, with no fire and - as I understand - it was established that the people had left the aeroplane.
So, you need 1 ambulance, 1 police car and the other services on a standby.
Imagine what would have happened if a serious bus crash or house fire had occurred during the response to this incident ? The services would have been stretched and would probably not been able to attend.
Just because the word 'AEROPLANE' is mentioned, the world seems to descend into pandelirium
It comes down to common sense - I am 50, I have survived so far despite my best attempts at times to interfere, this would not have happened 10 years ago, however I wonder whether in this litigious, nanny society we live in, things have changed irreparably.
Now.....................
You only have so many resources, you have to prioritise things and you should despatch services appropriately.
As a commercial and private pilot I understand the stresses involved when an aeroplane is involved in an accident or incident.
This particular incident involved a 2 seat light aeroplane, on an airfield, with no fire and - as I understand - it was established that the people had left the aeroplane.
So, you need 1 ambulance, 1 police car and the other services on a standby.
Imagine what would have happened if a serious bus crash or house fire had occurred during the response to this incident ? The services would have been stretched and would probably not been able to attend.
Just because the word 'AEROPLANE' is mentioned, the world seems to descend into pandelirium
It comes down to common sense - I am 50, I have survived so far despite my best attempts at times to interfere, this would not have happened 10 years ago, however I wonder whether in this litigious, nanny society we live in, things have changed irreparably.
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In response to Javelin's comments, and as a member of the Emergency Services:
Absolutely right, and this is done as often as possible.
Unfortunately information that accurate and concise is rarely available at the receipt of an emergency call, nor indeed until the first units arrive on scene.
Potentially, but I really wouldn't like to make that assessment from sat here in front of my computer. Experience has shown me that you need to be at the scene to make that decision. Personally (and I think most accident victims would agree) I would rather an excess of resources than a defecit. Situations change very quickly - just because a casualty is out of an aircraft or vehicle does not mean they are uninjured and just because an aircraft or vehicle isn't ablaze doesn't mean there isn't a fire risk, for example.
That's very easy. Any surplus units at the scene would have been dispatched to this second serious incident and any en route who were similarly not required would have been diverted. The role of control room staff and supervisors at the scene is to prioritise and allocate resources as appropriate. We're actually quite good at it 
Ok, possibly. Bear in mind that often the emergency services, unless based at an airport, have little or no experience at dealing with aircraft. Perhaps more resources are occasionally allocated than needed in these circumstances but again, I would suggest this is in response to the limited information available at the point of the first call.
Well done you. Many people are / have been less fortunate. Emergency service response to an incident such as this is nothing to do with either a Nanny State or the fear of litigation, but simply a well-rehearsed response to an incident requiring an emergency response. I have lost count of the number of times I have attended accident scenes that look like World War III only to see everybody dusting themselves down and shaking hands, and to apparent non-occurrences that result in fatalities. I guess that's the nature of accidents...
Regards,
DBChopper
You only have so many resources, you have to prioritise things and you should despatch services appropriately.
This particular incident involved a 2 seat light aeroplane, on an airfield, with no fire and - as I understand - it was established that the people had left the aeroplane.
So, you need 1 ambulance, 1 police car and the other services on a standby.
Imagine what would have happened if a serious bus crash or house fire had occurred during the response to this incident ? The services would have been stretched and would probably not been able to attend.
Just because the word 'AEROPLANE' is mentioned, the world seems to descend into pandelirium
It comes down to common sense - I am 50, I have survived so far despite my best attempts at times to interfere, this would not have happened 10 years ago, however I wonder whether in this litigious, nanny society we live in, things have changed irreparably.
Regards,
DBChopper
