The unspoken merits of a taildragger
Moderator
Thread Starter
The unspoken merits of a taildragger
A few posters have commented on taildraggers recently, particularly in the context of training. Though I am the proud owner of a C150 (with the middle wheel where clyde intended it), I cannot speak highly enough of training in / experiencing taildragger flying. Though my opporunities to fly taildraggers are infrequent, they are immensly valuable and satisfying. It is my opinion that a pilot who has not become at least somewhat proficient on taildraggers, is like a driver who does not drive a standard transmission. It does not mean that they are not a good pilot / driver, but something is still missing.
I recently did some advanced "mentoring" flying in a C206, with its experienced pilot. After I spent a half an hour showing him that rudder pedals worked in the air, as well as on the ground, his flying improved. It seems to me that taildragger pilots never forget the pedals, once they have learned to use them.
Having recently been entrusted with a taildragger amphibian, I am reaquaining myself with this delightful pleasure, and really appreciating not having a nosewheel there, particularly during beaching! And the 12kt crosswind on the 50 foot wide runway was not as scary as I thought it would be! The guys who designed those planes did know something after all!
If you're considering getting the most out of any light aircraft you fly, with improved safety skills as an added benefit, seek out taildragger training. You'll have the satisfaction that you had way back when as you mastered a bicycle, and left the tricycle behind (pun intended).
Pilot DAR
I recently did some advanced "mentoring" flying in a C206, with its experienced pilot. After I spent a half an hour showing him that rudder pedals worked in the air, as well as on the ground, his flying improved. It seems to me that taildragger pilots never forget the pedals, once they have learned to use them.
Having recently been entrusted with a taildragger amphibian, I am reaquaining myself with this delightful pleasure, and really appreciating not having a nosewheel there, particularly during beaching! And the 12kt crosswind on the 50 foot wide runway was not as scary as I thought it would be! The guys who designed those planes did know something after all!
If you're considering getting the most out of any light aircraft you fly, with improved safety skills as an added benefit, seek out taildragger training. You'll have the satisfaction that you had way back when as you mastered a bicycle, and left the tricycle behind (pun intended).
Pilot DAR
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only difference between a taildragger and a tricycle nose wheel aeroplane is on the ground. Once in the air there is no difference. So why does being a taildragger pilot make you any better? Planes are ment to be flown not driven on the ground....
Equally learning to fly a taildragger is only of benefit to anyone who actually flies one is it not?
You could say that doing aerobatics improves a pilots handling skills more than anything else....
Equally learning to fly a taildragger is only of benefit to anyone who actually flies one is it not? You could say that doing aerobatics improves a pilots handling skills more than anything else....
The only difference between a taildragger and a tricycle nose wheel aeroplane is on the ground. Once in the air there is no difference.
Ok, I'm a pedant
Formerly HWD
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indochina
Age: 57
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only difference between a taildragger and a tricycle nose wheel aeroplane is on the ground. Once in the air there is no difference. So why does being a taildragger pilot make you any better?
If you want to compare like for like, take a C152 Texas Taildragger. takeoff, landing and ground handling compared to a tri C152 is completely different, sloppy atitude and/or speed setting will probably result in bouces and chewing up runway. In the air all you will notice is the 105kts airspeed!
Ground side aside, I think that many t/ds are vintage aircraft which and their handling and performance in the air can be different than for a modern equivelent (t/d or tri). That is possibly one source of the misconception attached to tailwheel flying per se.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. You will never break the noseleg on a tailwheel a/c.
2. Sloppy approaches in a nosewheel a/c don't necessarily result in embarrasment. In a tailwheel they generally do. This teaches pilots better handling, which means they are less likely to bust the noseleg (see (1) above) due to a PIO, they don't wear out the brakes, and they are less likely to end up in the hedge at the far end.
2. Sloppy approaches in a nosewheel a/c don't necessarily result in embarrasment. In a tailwheel they generally do. This teaches pilots better handling, which means they are less likely to bust the noseleg (see (1) above) due to a PIO, they don't wear out the brakes, and they are less likely to end up in the hedge at the far end.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 429 Likes
on
226 Posts
they don't wear out the brakes, and they are less likely to end up in the hedge at the far end.
The unspoken merits of a taildragger
IMHO, they just look right
Show me an aircraft that looks better then a Super Cub, a DC3, a Mustang, and the best of all - The Spitfire
.......... try and visualise a Spitfire with a (shudder) nose wheel
IMHO, they just look right
Show me an aircraft that looks better then a Super Cub, a DC3, a Mustang, and the best of all - The Spitfire
.......... try and visualise a Spitfire with a (shudder) nose wheel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Suffolk
Age: 70
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
shows how good a pilot you are/are not
As I've just recently got my tailwheel rating, I found that the conversion really made me focus on feeling how the aircraft (a Jodel) behaved - more guiding than driving. In a typical tricycle u/c acft, I can basically point it down the runway, shove in the power and take off. With a tailwheel, getting the tailwheel up, holding it in that position, and in a straight line until takeoff, made me far more gentle and 'sense aware' on elevator control and more proactive in using rudder. Even turning a tailwheel acft on a soggy grass strip was a new technique to learn. Especially in a crosswind. I found landing a hassle - back to the bounces of student days. Until I relaxed and learnt how to guide the acft to landing with good speed, attitude and power control. So - I'm sure I'm a better and more aware pilot as a result.
Moderator
Thread Starter
It has been correctly pointed out that both types fly the same, once airborne (speed aside). I agree. Using the analogy of the automatic vs standard car, however, those both drive the same once you're on the motorway, but getting on and off will build your skills faster in the standard. Once you are proficient with shifting gears, you are more aware of that aspect, and more likely to use that "control" through out your trip (correctly downshifting). I think that the same applies to the use of the rudder in flight. The taildragger helps with rudder awareness. This can be a very important safety aspect during very low speed flight, as I recently reminded the C206 pilot during my aforementioned mentoring. He had the ball all over the place during our approach to stall flying. I pointed out that if he let it stall that way, it might be an exciting ride. He just was not aware.
My inattention to the correct application of rudder has also embarassed me in a delightful tricycle type - the Islander. I suddenly learned that if you are not careful to center the pedals for a moment, when you let the nosewheel down during a crosswind landing, there can be quite a chirp and yaw!
Taildragger keeps me thinking about pedals!
Pilot DAR
My inattention to the correct application of rudder has also embarassed me in a delightful tricycle type - the Islander. I suddenly learned that if you are not careful to center the pedals for a moment, when you let the nosewheel down during a crosswind landing, there can be quite a chirp and yaw!
Taildragger keeps me thinking about pedals!
Pilot DAR
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah but have you noticed how the trend in new cars is to move away from the clunky old, manual gear box? My new one doesn't have a clutch but has flappy paddles on the steering wheel. Still drives as well as a manual
When I flew the Cub, it was a joy to fly, and easy to set up for a stable approach. But I did get this feeling that when on the ground it was constantly trying to kill me.....
Each to their own
When I flew the Cub, it was a joy to fly, and easy to set up for a stable approach. But I did get this feeling that when on the ground it was constantly trying to kill me.....
Each to their own
Fly Conventional Gear
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winchester
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This might help visualise what a Spitfire would look like with a nose gear:
The Spitfire on the other hand naturally looks to the sky when parked...one's eye moves from the tail up towards the tips of blades, she stands proud and alert looking with the stance emphasising her graceful lines.
The Spitfire on the other hand naturally looks to the sky when parked...one's eye moves from the tail up towards the tips of blades, she stands proud and alert looking with the stance emphasising her graceful lines.
Last edited by Contacttower; 30th Jun 2008 at 14:05.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just two short comments on this subject.
The inability of any pilot to understand the use of rudder in flight is due to substandard flight instruction from day one.
A tail wheel pilot will be able to fly a nose wheel airplane with no effort whatsoever, a nose wheel pilot will have difficulty going from a nose wheel airplane to a tail wheel airplane without proper training.
The inability of any pilot to understand the use of rudder in flight is due to substandard flight instruction from day one.
A tail wheel pilot will be able to fly a nose wheel airplane with no effort whatsoever, a nose wheel pilot will have difficulty going from a nose wheel airplane to a tail wheel airplane without proper training.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cilboldentune, Britannia
Posts: 555
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Real men don't eat quiche and do fly tailwheel aircraft 
Seriously though, if you haven't tried a Cub, C180/5 or similar you should. It's just another little skill to learn and makes you appreciate some of the finer points of t/o and landing.
Seriously though, if you haven't tried a Cub, C180/5 or similar you should. It's just another little skill to learn and makes you appreciate some of the finer points of t/o and landing.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland
Age: 84
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I too have just completed tailwheel differences & I am convinced my general handling airborne has also improved. Cessna 152s don't care if you don't use the rudder in turns for instance. My '59 Emeraude certainly does.
Shirley if you are "required" to fly more acurately during takeoff & landing then that acuracy will remain during the bit in between?
Shirley if you are "required" to fly more acurately during takeoff & landing then that acuracy will remain during the bit in between?
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Training on taildraggers
When I was learning to be an R A F pilot (quite a few years ago) we all, future SE and ME, did our EFTS training on Tiger Moths. That training served us well.
WS
WS
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chuck is correct. tailwheel pilots know what the rudder is for, and fly in a co-ordinated way that is usually demanded by tailwheel aircraft.
The types do not fly the same - not because of the U/C config, but becuase tailwheel aircraft often handle better, are less sloppy, and require accurate hand / foot co-ordination. You can probably fly a PA28 and never use the rudder! In my book, that's not an aeroplane, it's a sloppy airbourn car!
Many of today's nosewheel-trained pilots simply can't land. Watch the 'arrivals' at ant GA field - a high percentage of the spamcans will be 3-pointed, way too fast, with little or no attempt at a hold-off. All those broken nosewheels in EVERY month's AAIB reports put ALL our insurance premiums up!
You should know that Cubs can only just kill you! Seriously, the Cub is a pussycat, but you do need to know how to land. What your staement says to me is that you need a bit more time in the aeroplane to become 'at home' with it. Then you will start to really enjoy it (it can put a grin on your face that no spamcan ever will)!
SSD
The types do not fly the same - not because of the U/C config, but becuase tailwheel aircraft often handle better, are less sloppy, and require accurate hand / foot co-ordination. You can probably fly a PA28 and never use the rudder! In my book, that's not an aeroplane, it's a sloppy airbourn car!
Many of today's nosewheel-trained pilots simply can't land. Watch the 'arrivals' at ant GA field - a high percentage of the spamcans will be 3-pointed, way too fast, with little or no attempt at a hold-off. All those broken nosewheels in EVERY month's AAIB reports put ALL our insurance premiums up!
When I flew the Cub, it was a joy to fly, and easy to set up for a stable approach. But I did get this feeling that when on the ground it was constantly trying to kill me.....
SSD
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taildraggers make better pilots.
Then there are taildraggers and taildraggers.
After a period of absence, I went for some flying with Cub owner/friend/instructor Cristiano.
After the second landing he quietly commented: "You've been flying the Maule. You are using your feet properly".
Then there are taildraggers and taildraggers.
After a period of absence, I went for some flying with Cub owner/friend/instructor Cristiano.
After the second landing he quietly commented: "You've been flying the Maule. You are using your feet properly".
Chuck said
A tail wheel pilot will be able to fly a nose wheel airplane with no effort whatsoever, a nose wheel pilot will have difficulty going from a nose wheel airplane to a tail wheel airplane without proper training.
Not invariably. If the initial instruction was good, then it doesn't take long. I learned on a C150 and converted quickly to a cub. Big caveat here, the initial instruction.......Now that everyone is terrified of sideslips, spins, anything out of the ordinary, it gets harder to find a properly trained pilot, let alone a good instructor.
Let's not get fixated on the type, more on the quality of the training.
A tail wheel pilot will be able to fly a nose wheel airplane with no effort whatsoever, a nose wheel pilot will have difficulty going from a nose wheel airplane to a tail wheel airplane without proper training.
Let's not get fixated on the type, more on the quality of the training.