Advise on landing technique

[davidmolamphy]

Apologies if this isn't the correct place to list such a topic. I'm a student PPL in Ireland and have about 23 hours. Those hours are built up over the past 18 months, and about 15 of them are in the circuit. Now I've been close to solo a number of times but due to one factor or another (normally weather), I've never got it done. I flew for the first time in 5 months last week and it went pretty well, but I have the same problem as ever. I have a tendency not to flare correctly. For some reason (probably stupid) I have a fear of stalling the aircraft, and never pull back enough on the control column. I am just wondering is there any tips/advise anyone can offer as to how to flare correctly. I was starting to get the hang of it towards the last 2 touch and gos the last lesson, but I'm flying tomorrow and hope to do my solo in the next 2 hours or so. This probably sounds like a stupid question, but any advise would be appreciated.

[BackPacker]

Well, an aircraft will only land once it's done flying. That means that a good landing is a stalled one and a perfect landing is one where the wheels touch just before or right at the point where the stall happens.

So it sounds to me like you need to overcome your fear of flying and stalling with your wheels 1 feet or less above the ground. You've already acknowledged that problem so you're halfway there.

I'm not an instructor but here's a suggestion. With an instructor on board, obviously, and a long, into-the-wind runway fly as low above the runway as you dare, without touching. When running out of runway, add power and fly away. When this goes well, do it with landing flaps but again, don't touch. Keep plenty speed (80-90 knots should do in an average spamcan) but go as low as you dare without touching. Then, do the same thing. Keep plenty speed but as soon as you are established inches above the runway, let the instructor gradually pull the power while you keep the aircraft from touching the deck for as long as you can. Disregard the stall warner and at some point you'll notice that the aircraft is done flying and will put its wheels on the tarmac. You don't have to help it at all: during this exercise you never move the control column forward, only back. Once the main wheels touch, hold the control column where it is and you will see that the nosewheel will eventually lower itself too.

Do this a few times to get the proper feel, and only then start lowering your approach speed to POH values. With a lower approach speed the technique is exactly the same, only the flare will be shorter.

[davidmolamphy]

Sounds like great advise BackPacker. Many thanks, I'll see if we can give it a go tomorrow morning.

[dont overfil]

If you could manage to organise your lessons closer together you would give yourself a better chance. Even if you had to borrow money (if that is the problem) it would probably save in the long term.
DO.

[TopBunk]

I flew for the first time in 5 months last week and it went pretty well

What do you expect? Remember that even airline pilots have to perform a landing every four weeks (or so), despite them having thousands of hours and landings.

Conversely, you have very limited experience (averaging just over 1 hour per onth) and yet expect to be an ace after 5 months away!

"Going very well" sounds as if all you need is to put a couple of hours in over a week or so and it will all come together just fine. So, I would advise puttin gin a concerted effort to break your 'virginity' and move on to the next step - I know it's expensive, but I feel it will be more expensive if you don't.

Good luck...

[davidmolamphy]

Thanks for the input TopBunk. What was getting to me is I was chatting to someone a few weeks ago and flying came up (his son is a F/O for a major Irish carrier), and he asked me did I intend on persuing it commercially. I said I would love to, and very interested in doing so but not fully sure just yet. He asked how many hours I have, and have I gone solo, and he said I can forget about doing the CPL if I have not went solo yet. Needless to say this got to me, and I'm not sure does he really know what he is talking about.

It's a good point that I am averaging just over an hour a month, so I suppose thats the main factor to consider. Hopefully I will get in an hour a week, or maybe more over the next few weeks and that will get things moving.

[batninth]

D,

If you look at an archive of threads in this forum you'll find that the various aspects of landing is one of the most common topics. I would also suggest that we have many and various questions to ask, and I hold up my hand as one of the multitude who had problems getting the hang of it (and still trying to in my case!)

BackPacker's advice is good, but if you are anything like me you'll probably approach the landing worrying about it which in turn makes it all the harder. For me the turning point was where my instructor said something along the lines of "Look, you're here to have fun & this should be fun so don't worry about it".

You can't say "Put landing out of your mind", but as you're practicing try to think of the fun side of what you are doing, have a laugh and hopefully you'll find that it does come easier.

[foxmoth]

he said I can forget about doing the CPL if I have not went solo yet.

Absolute B*****cks, - and I think as an A330 Captain and PPL instructor I can probably say that with more authority than your advisor!

[S-Works]

Agree completely with Foxmoth, tell him to bugger off and stick his ego where the sun don't shine...... People like him are the reason GA is in decline and students give up.

Hours to solo has NO relevance on flying ability at all. I have seen students take over 50hrs to solo and go onto be first class pilots.

Just go with it, change your Instructor if needed and persevere, you will look back wondering what all the fuss is about!!!

[Han 1st Solo]

Got to echo both foxmouth and bose, complete rubbish, took me 22 hours to solo due to having 1 hour a week, now have over 1000 hours instructing 2100 total time and fly jets about for a large UK airline, as far as the landings go think you need to have some continuity having 3 or 4 lessons in a week and you'll crack it in no time, key is not trying to land the aircraft its trying to keep it flying for as long as possible so it lands itself just making sure that that does not occur half way down the runway and the aircraft is on the centreline and straight, sounds easy doesn't it, and with a bit of continuity it will be!

Good luck, and hope this helps

Han.

[mstram]

The advise about "flying low" over the runway is good.

I agree about flying more often, too. I also recommend practicing with a flight simulator software (Xplane, MSFS ..etc). Some hate the sims, others love em, I'm of the opinion that the more you practice, either with a sim, or even just imagining landings in your mind, it's bound to help.

I also recommend that you go up with an instructor and practice stalls until you are very familiar with exactly when the a.c. will stall and how it reacts. They are scary at first, but like anything different / unknown, the more you practice and get familiar with something, the easier it becomes.

Another thing that might help is to improve your "height awareness", which was implied by the "low flying" exercise.

An interesting fact I learned from an instructor is how the perspective changes as you get lower. You can practice this indoors by standing next to a desk / table, and look down on it. Now squat down slowly watching the table top until your eyes are at table height. Notice as your viewpoint lowered, that the table top "flattens out". The same thing happens when you land a plane. Have your instructor do a landing and just pay attention to looking at the runway and surrounding terrain and notice how it "flattens out" as you get lower and lower.

That perspective thing and a whole lot of other great info is in the class book "Stick and Rudder" by Langewiesche, if you haven't read it, do yourself a favour and grab a copy.

[Lister Noble]

It took me around 19 hrs to solo,I was getting worried as I thought the norm was 10 hrs.
My instructor told me that a low hours solo does not always end in a good pilot.
Don't listen to the idiots who try to destroy your confidence by telling you that you are rubbish,they are stupid to talk like that.

I'm not a professional pilot ,I just enjoy a little bimble around East Anglia most weeks,but the advice given here is good.

Another thing that really helped was to sit in the aircraft when they were not busy and get used to the look of scenery around me,because that is how it will look as you touch down.
Good luck and it seems to me a few more hours and you will be there.
Lister

[Johnm]

I can't even remember how many hours it was before my first solo and I can't be bothered to go through my old log book and find out.

I now have a modest 530 hours and my own Archer 2 and I've flown around Europe and the UK quite a lot. I still find landing consistently a bit of a challenge but that's part of the fun!

The best advice I was ever given was as follows:

Fly a good approach as you have been taught and round out with the throttle closed and then try not to land. This has the effect of you slowly pulling back on the yoke at low level until the aircraft simply gives up the unequal strugle and settles down. Very satisfying when it works well. The worst that can happen is a firmish arrival if you rounded out too high.

[Nashers]

dont worry about not being able to land well just yet. it will come to u once you start putting more hours in with shorter breaks. all you have to remember is the "picture" the instructor shows you when teaching you how to land.

on the ppl they teach you to touch down just as the stall warner goes off. as my instructor told me get into the flare and chop the power. do all you can and not let her land therefore pull the yoke up slowly everytime the nose starts to sink or you will balloon. if you do balloon, dont worry. add a touch of power as a cusion and you will recover it!

practice makes perfict.

[Pilot DAR]

D,

Backpacker and Johnm have given exactly the same advice I would offer. I have a couple of things to add: Low flying the runway is good, but do not do it at a high speed. In a Cessna 150 or 172, 90kts would be too fast, as you could bounce the nose wheel off the runway. This would be very not good. Fly at 60kts or so (10kts faster than stall speed) this will keep the nose higher, and assure that if you touch by unintentionally, it will be the mains that touch first, which will be entirely safe. This presupposes you're flying a nosewheel aircraft, taildragger rules are somewhat different, and beyond the scope of this advice.

Also, as you cross the threshold, there is a sudden urge to get the plane on the ground, so as to not float off the far end of the runway. Assuming that you've chosen a runway of appropriate length for the aircraft, if you cross the threshold at a suitably low altitude, and the correct approach speed, and you close the throttle shortly thereafter, you're not going off the other end of the runway, unless you add power again. Indeed, you should expect to not need brakes at all in most cases. With the power off, whether airborne, or on the ground, you're slowing down. If you're doing it in the air, so much the better, you're saving tire and brake wear, and really reducing the chance of damaging wheel shimmy. Remember, lift creats drag. If the plane is flying, there's drag to overcome. You want the drag to slow you down. Once you touch down, the lift is pretty well gone. So is all that drag you just had for free, so it might actually require more runway length to stop, and brakes wich you might have otherwise not needed. Also bear in mind, that you probably have better directional control in the air, than on the ground.

Don't be in a hurry to be on the ground! After all, you went to go flying right? Make the most of it! Hold it a few inches off for as long as you possibly can. Ignore the stall warning. If the stick is all the way back when you touch, you probably just did the best landing ever.

Don't let cocky pilots and instructors at the airport, in the cockpit, or even on forums like this bother you. Some are full of themselves. We were all new at this at some time in history! Just because someone is an instructor, or CPL, does not mean they have all of the answers. More likely the old time pilot is the one with the answers you need, even if they have a PPL....

[Saab Dastard]

Don't think of it as stalling - just think of it as aiming at the ground but missing for as long as possible!

SD

[RatherBeFlying]

Flying once a month, even once a week, is just not enough.

My reccommendation to anybody wanting to learn to fly is to fly twice a day for an hour and a half. That means setting aside the money ahead of time.

For landings, you generally flare when you can see individual grass blades or pavement texture. At the same time you raise your gaze to the end of the runway to judge your height above the runway as well as drift from the crosswind.

Three jobs:

1. Keep it pointed down the runway
2. Hold the flare attitude
3. Use bank to control drift

[Troy McClure]

Modified from a post I wrote last year:

Look as far ahead as you can.

By looking at 'infinity', your eyes diverge so you gain peripheral vision.

When the runway edge 'touches' the bottom of your headset, start the flare. When it reaches the middle of your ears, you're down (works at night too).

During the flare, NEVER pull back more than 1/2 inch in one go (and I emphasise in one go - don't assume 1/2 inch will be enough).

If 1/2 inch not enough, pull back another 1/2 inch and repeat as necessary until your main wheels are down (I've had students get everything right to about 2 feet and decide they've done enough, then bounce).

If 1/2 inch too much, you may balloon but only very slightly, so wait for it to sink back down, then continue as before.

Sometimes you'll need several consecutive 1/2 inch pulls in quick succession, just a microsecond between each to assess. The best landings from the right approach you'll find you need about 4, a second or so apart.

While this is going on, point the aeroplane down the runway with your feet and keep it on the centre-line with aileron. (That's crosswinds sorted too then.)

Once on the ground (whether you slammed it in or greased it...), spend a few seconds looking at the end of the runway. This is what being on the ground looks like. You should find (as mentioned above) that the ground in your peripheral vision is around the middle of your ears.

[shortstripper]

Troy,

That's a fantastic post and probably very true, but ...........

Boy! is that complicated and hard to follow! Way too much analysis I think, even if it is accurate! I've never considered in such depths where the edges of the runway appear in my peripheral vision, indeed, most of the time I don't fly from defined "runways" anyway!

davidmolamphy,

IMHO, all that is needed is practice and a little more practice. I used to water ski, and I took forever to go from being on my bum with water blasting all over me to the point where I could stand. I had people falling over themselves to tell me how to do it ... none of the advice worked. Then one day for no apparent reason, it just clicked and I was skiing!!!! I think you'll find the same thing will happen with you, and it will happen a lot sooner if you can get more frequent lessons. Like others have said, don't be put off by the hours you have without going solo as it has no bearing on how you will turn out as a pilot.

[Troy McClure]

As with all such things, it's a damn sight easier to do than it is to write down.

Has worked for many of my students who were struggling with their landings with previous instructors, but I didn't just read the above from a card.....

The main thing isn't to just guess the right place to flare, but to feel for it, hence pulling back 1/2 inch at a time.

Try the above method and (hopefully) you'll see what I'm getting at.