Fuel prices - can we protest ?
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hellfire Corner
Posts: 374
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My 1940's technology delivers 15 litre per hour on mogas and given the current fuel prices I'm pertty happy to hang onto it.
by the French, all I want to do is go and burn some money in my old machine. If I time it right, I may run out of health & wealth about the same time as we run out of oil. If not, I'm enjoying it now.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: .
Age: 37
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is interesting to note that NuLabour are blamed for the record levels of taxation we now see on fuels for "Environmental" (sic) reasons.
However, whilst greedy Labour is largely at fault, many seem to forget that it was John Major's Tory party of the mid 90's that introduced a little ditty known as the fuel price escalator, which in simple terms was a way to massively increase tax on fuel - for "Environmental" (sic) reasons. This turned Britain's fuel from being among the cheapest in Europe to one of the most expensive, if not the most expensive.
So in reality we should blame the other lot (Tories) for lumping us with mega-high prices in the first place - the current lot have just carried on with it because it's a nice little earner.
Secondly, on the subject of "cut tax and we'll lose lots of money", the simple solution is... spend less. For instance, giving money/houses etc. to illegal immigrants, giving handouts to lazy boneidle scroungers, chucking more money at the NHS so they can employ yet more useless overpaid "managers", giving money to MPs so they can buy tellys from John Lewis/kitchen suites from IKEA/second homes etc. - cut all that mince out and we shall see substantial savings.
Thirdly, I heard the old "Oil is running out" story trotted out by the PM on TV tonight. Mince. If Oil is running out then why are we still finding large numbers of enormous Oil/Gas fields everywhere in the world?
What there is a shortage of is truth and common sense displayed by those who are meant to lead this country, but instead tie themselves up in their own indulgences and self-service. Oink Oink!
Smithy
However, whilst greedy Labour is largely at fault, many seem to forget that it was John Major's Tory party of the mid 90's that introduced a little ditty known as the fuel price escalator, which in simple terms was a way to massively increase tax on fuel - for "Environmental" (sic) reasons. This turned Britain's fuel from being among the cheapest in Europe to one of the most expensive, if not the most expensive.
So in reality we should blame the other lot (Tories) for lumping us with mega-high prices in the first place - the current lot have just carried on with it because it's a nice little earner.
Secondly, on the subject of "cut tax and we'll lose lots of money", the simple solution is... spend less. For instance, giving money/houses etc. to illegal immigrants, giving handouts to lazy boneidle scroungers, chucking more money at the NHS so they can employ yet more useless overpaid "managers", giving money to MPs so they can buy tellys from John Lewis/kitchen suites from IKEA/second homes etc. - cut all that mince out and we shall see substantial savings.
Thirdly, I heard the old "Oil is running out" story trotted out by the PM on TV tonight. Mince. If Oil is running out then why are we still finding large numbers of enormous Oil/Gas fields everywhere in the world?
What there is a shortage of is truth and common sense displayed by those who are meant to lead this country, but instead tie themselves up in their own indulgences and self-service. Oink Oink!
Smithy
nice little earner
Oil is running out
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
//RANT ON//
'Environmental' reasons given by Government/County Councils/Etc. really p1ss me off. I am sure that if someone actually sat down and worked out how much money had been collected in extra taxes/charges to put towards green issues against what had actually been diverted and spent on said causes there would be a massive gap - it just get diverted to other expenditure that Gordon needs to subsidise.
The 'Green Tax' is just a convenient big scam.
As has been previously hinted out, the amount of fuel consumed by GA in the big picture is probably minuscule compared to the Majors and therefore they are unlikely to listen to us. The truckers obviously have a bit louder voice than we do considering what they spend, one of my best mates is Transport Manager for a local haulage company and they are really feeling the pinch, they are even turning jobs to London away because they cannot afford to do them when they take in account not only fuel price increases but also the lovely ‘Pollution Tax’ that Red Ken invoked!!!!
Bins are now only collected every fortnight in our area to ‘encourage recycling’, it does nothing of the sort. You still have the same amount of rubbish generated just each in its own pile now – it is still sat outside rotting however the council have halved their collection expenditure and put Council Tax up!
Car tax is going through the roof and they seem to keep putting it up as long as they think they can get away with it. Because I drive a 4x4 I automatically get hit with a £400 bil (soon to be £455), why??? What about saloon cars these days that employ permanent 4 wheel drive? There is just no logic to the road tax pricing. On top of that if I drove a saloon car I would be stranded at home as it would not get out of our village when it snows and if I did get to work the exhaust would get ripped off each day due to ground clearance – you cant win!!! Meanwhile Quentin the hippy is driving round in his 1978 diesel Peugeot estate car throwing our more pollutants than Chernobyl and only paying £130 a year!
Anyway, I am all worked up now, I am off to burn down a convenient rain forrest to calm down again…..
//RANT OFF//
J.
'Environmental' reasons given by Government/County Councils/Etc. really p1ss me off. I am sure that if someone actually sat down and worked out how much money had been collected in extra taxes/charges to put towards green issues against what had actually been diverted and spent on said causes there would be a massive gap - it just get diverted to other expenditure that Gordon needs to subsidise.
The 'Green Tax' is just a convenient big scam.
As has been previously hinted out, the amount of fuel consumed by GA in the big picture is probably minuscule compared to the Majors and therefore they are unlikely to listen to us. The truckers obviously have a bit louder voice than we do considering what they spend, one of my best mates is Transport Manager for a local haulage company and they are really feeling the pinch, they are even turning jobs to London away because they cannot afford to do them when they take in account not only fuel price increases but also the lovely ‘Pollution Tax’ that Red Ken invoked!!!!
Bins are now only collected every fortnight in our area to ‘encourage recycling’, it does nothing of the sort. You still have the same amount of rubbish generated just each in its own pile now – it is still sat outside rotting however the council have halved their collection expenditure and put Council Tax up!
Car tax is going through the roof and they seem to keep putting it up as long as they think they can get away with it. Because I drive a 4x4 I automatically get hit with a £400 bil (soon to be £455), why??? What about saloon cars these days that employ permanent 4 wheel drive? There is just no logic to the road tax pricing. On top of that if I drove a saloon car I would be stranded at home as it would not get out of our village when it snows and if I did get to work the exhaust would get ripped off each day due to ground clearance – you cant win!!! Meanwhile Quentin the hippy is driving round in his 1978 diesel Peugeot estate car throwing our more pollutants than Chernobyl and only paying £130 a year!
Anyway, I am all worked up now, I am off to burn down a convenient rain forrest to calm down again…..
//RANT OFF//
J.
If you want to lobby, do it quietly...
I have also heard that the amount of fuel used by GA in one year amounts to 15 minutes of London rush-hour traffic. I've also heard that it equates to less than the amount of fuel that evaporates from car fuel tanks in a year.
However, I would be very concerned about lobbying the Guvmint to lower Avgas duty rates in the form of some public debate or petition on the PM's website, given Avgas is currently taxed at half the rate of road fuel. Can you imagine the response from Joe Public if they heard that 'millionaire' pilots were paying half the duty rate that are paying for their road fuel?
However, I would be very concerned about lobbying the Guvmint to lower Avgas duty rates in the form of some public debate or petition on the PM's website, given Avgas is currently taxed at half the rate of road fuel. Can you imagine the response from Joe Public if they heard that 'millionaire' pilots were paying half the duty rate that are paying for their road fuel?
Not a GA protest but I think that everybody who uses an internal combustion engine in any way to get to work should phone in and say "Sorry, can't afford to get to work today."
One day of that would focus the attention no doubt.
One day of that would focus the attention no doubt.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: .
Age: 37
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a wee correction there Julian, Quentin the hippy won't drive a 1978 Peugeot, rather he'd probably be one of those cyclist idiots that plague streets everywhere.
I oft ponder the same thing JAFO.
The fact is is that nonsensical and unworkable, discriminatory, judgmental, restrictive, oppressive ideologies such as Environmentalism have absolutely no place in any free and civilised society, and most certainly have no place in any Government.
Smithy
I oft ponder the same thing JAFO.
The fact is is that nonsensical and unworkable, discriminatory, judgmental, restrictive, oppressive ideologies such as Environmentalism have absolutely no place in any free and civilised society, and most certainly have no place in any Government.
Smithy
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Not a GA protest but I think that everybody who uses an internal combustion engine in any way to get to work should phone in and say "Sorry, can't afford to get to work today."
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: .
Age: 37
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's going to have to change is the unsustainable notion that the populace have to keep paying more and more for an over-inflated and useless Government that tries to dictate to people how they should live their lives and removes freedoms from them.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Manchester
Age: 40
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry to be a pessimist but, I think that if Government did cut duty on fuel, the loss sustained by the Government would be too big and would only be balanced elsewhere by quietly increasing other taxes.
Although I 100% agree with the fundamentals behind a protest and such like, I definately feel it wouldn't make the 'average persons' financial situation any easier.
There is only one solution if you want cheap fuel and that is to find your own oil well, extract it and refine it yourself... whilst keeping uber quiet about it. Chance of that are pretty much nil so it's a lose - lose situation to me
which sucks big time.
Although I 100% agree with the fundamentals behind a protest and such like, I definately feel it wouldn't make the 'average persons' financial situation any easier.
There is only one solution if you want cheap fuel and that is to find your own oil well, extract it and refine it yourself... whilst keeping uber quiet about it. Chance of that are pretty much nil so it's a lose - lose situation to me
which sucks big time.
Joe Public if they heard that 'millionaire' pilots were paying half the duty rate that are paying for their road fuel
‘Millionaire pilots’ invariably contribute the following items to keep this economy afloat, including but not limited to:
1. PAYE in HUGE chunks, because they are either employed, or employers,
2. Tax on fuel for their vehicle(s),
3. Road tax for their vehicle(s),
4. Create employment in aviation,
5. Council tax in HUGE chunks for their residences, because I cannot imagine many of them, if any, in benefit housing,
6. Huge chunks of VAT for equipment, training, etc, etc,
7. Taxes on aviation fuel.
Taxes should not be punitive, should not be tweaked and adjusted to reflect my income/asset base/activities etc, it should be levied equally to those that partake, or could potentially partake of the benefits provided by those taxes.
Alternately people with other expensive hobbies, i.e. photography, parenthood, car racing, etc etc should be subjected to the same persecution....
the loss sustained by the Government would be too big and would only be balanced elsewhere by quietly increasing other taxes
to find your own oil well, extract it and refine it yourself... whilst keeping uber quiet about it
What's going to have to change is the unsustainable notion that the populace have to keep paying more and more for an over-inflated and useless Government that tries to dictate to people how they should live their lives and removes freedoms from them.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
The alternate would be to curb expenditure?
Yes you get plenty of "shock horror tax rise" stories in the media, but a government that tries to curb expenditure gets just as much "shock horror public service cuts" stories.
Of course any particular individual can point to areas of public "waste", being expenditure on services that they personally don't feel like using, but I can assure you that no public service exists without popular demand! - cutting a service that nobody wants is a dead easy way for a public authority to save money, and they most certainly take the dead easy route if available.
(I know this stuff, as a councillor I do it all the time. There is pretty well nothing you can cut which won't result in seriously adverse press and lost votes, because every public service is useful to somebody.)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: .
Age: 37
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can see where you're coming from Gertrude and, to a certain extent, agree with you... although I think more and more people (including myself) are questioning the value of certain services/sections of Govt. and are wanting a better say in how their money (tax) is being used.
Personally it always strikes me as completely rediculous how we can have shortfalls in cash for services, which then get cut to ribbons, and yet other blatantly obvious areas of waste, e.g. overstaffing, stupendous expenses (tellys from John Lewis, second homes, taxi trips etc.), inflated salaries, increasing layers of needless management (Re:overstaffing) etc. get blatantly ignored.
For example, here in Edinburgh, the City Centre is being dug up, causing chaos for commuters and businesses, for a tram scheme which 1) Nobody wants and 2) will cost £600million. And yet this is being propagated, nay forced upon us, by the same Council who is insisting on cuts all over the place to services. And yet we are having this £600million pile of excrement heaped upon us - at a time when the Council (like all other Councils in Jockland) are in major debt. Also, instead of taking the bus as the anti-car (Re:anti-freedom) Council frequently lecturers us to, instead they take taxi trips everywhere at the cost of thousands of pounds, funded by the residents of Edinburgh. Additionally there was an interesting story a few months back about the Canteen at Coonsil HQ... instead of paying for their food they (Councillors/employees) operated an "honesty box" system of donating money. Of course, nobody payed anything. Do as I say, not as I do. Oink Oink!
Anyway, sorry for drifting the thread, back to the fuel. How could we protest? The problem is that if commercial operators were to join in any protest it would most likely backfire because AVTUR is untaxed... potential major publicity boo-boo which could make things worse.
Smithy
Personally it always strikes me as completely rediculous how we can have shortfalls in cash for services, which then get cut to ribbons, and yet other blatantly obvious areas of waste, e.g. overstaffing, stupendous expenses (tellys from John Lewis, second homes, taxi trips etc.), inflated salaries, increasing layers of needless management (Re:overstaffing) etc. get blatantly ignored.
For example, here in Edinburgh, the City Centre is being dug up, causing chaos for commuters and businesses, for a tram scheme which 1) Nobody wants and 2) will cost £600million. And yet this is being propagated, nay forced upon us, by the same Council who is insisting on cuts all over the place to services. And yet we are having this £600million pile of excrement heaped upon us - at a time when the Council (like all other Councils in Jockland) are in major debt. Also, instead of taking the bus as the anti-car (Re:anti-freedom) Council frequently lecturers us to, instead they take taxi trips everywhere at the cost of thousands of pounds, funded by the residents of Edinburgh. Additionally there was an interesting story a few months back about the Canteen at Coonsil HQ... instead of paying for their food they (Councillors/employees) operated an "honesty box" system of donating money. Of course, nobody payed anything. Do as I say, not as I do. Oink Oink!
Anyway, sorry for drifting the thread, back to the fuel. How could we protest? The problem is that if commercial operators were to join in any protest it would most likely backfire because AVTUR is untaxed... potential major publicity boo-boo which could make things worse.
Smithy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Im All Over The Shop
Age: 43
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont think companies like Shell and mobil making record breaking profits helps peoples moods either.
65% (approx) of the cost per litre goes into the governments coffers.
I dont think there is anything we can do in reality, being typically British we just lay down and take it - and then just bitch about it, crying how crap our government is and how we always get shafted....even a change of government wouldnt change that - they are always in it for themselves.
To be honest, theres that may protests going on in Trafalgar Square every day, with everything from Free Tibet to this that and the other, I dont think anyone would notice.
Going down the route of the truckers (not literally in planes of course) trying to cause disruption to make people take notice will only succeed in pi55ing people off
65% (approx) of the cost per litre goes into the governments coffers.
I dont think there is anything we can do in reality, being typically British we just lay down and take it - and then just bitch about it, crying how crap our government is and how we always get shafted....even a change of government wouldnt change that - they are always in it for themselves.
To be honest, theres that may protests going on in Trafalgar Square every day, with everything from Free Tibet to this that and the other, I dont think anyone would notice.
Going down the route of the truckers (not literally in planes of course) trying to cause disruption to make people take notice will only succeed in pi55ing people off
