Hypothetical situaiton - Bird strike
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LH2, the original question came from Brirmingham
ATC are generally alert to bird concentrations around the aerodrome
In the UK we do not have many vultures
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As PIC I am ultimately responsible for the safety of the aircraft and the flight.
Finance is a secondary consideration.
If it is unsafe to taxi I would bring the aircraft to rest.
A windscreen that I couldn't see through would be unsafe.
)I guess what I'm trying to say is, a good pilot is one who keeps the big picture in mind at all times and considers not only his own safety but that of his fellow aviators as well. And if on top of that you can also maintain straight and level then you're an ace in my eyes
Avoid imitations
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what you didn't what was a strike with some of the large Sh*te hawks that inhabited the area.
Pompey till I die
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Fine
Do that on a runway I'm controlling without a darn good reason and we'll be having words!
Any ATC controller, who thinks nothing off asking pilots to perform manoeuvres they are not comfortable with, is just waiting for a visit from the AAIB one day...
Pompey till I die
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There are still a number of ways to vacate an active runway. Not too hard to jump out and push a light aircraft out of the way, is it? Particularly if you've advised ATC of your difficulties, as you can expect a number of enthusiastic firefighters to be present to give you the required motive power, plus a quick blast from the firehose will get rid of any obstruction on the windscreen (along with the windscreen itself, but financial considerations are secondary, no? )
I guess what I'm trying to say is, a good pilot is one who keeps the big picture in mind at all times and considers not only his own safety but that of his fellow aviators as well. And if on top of that you can also maintain straight and level then you're an ace in my eyes
)I guess what I'm trying to say is, a good pilot is one who keeps the big picture in mind at all times and considers not only his own safety but that of his fellow aviators as well. And if on top of that you can also maintain straight and level then you're an ace in my eyes
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PompeyPaul don't worry to much I would come to a stop and shut down as well if I couldn't see out the front. Hanging out the door with bits of bird guts slapping in your face is stuff for super heros which we obviously arn't.
Spitoon could have as many words as he likes, in fact he could file for all I cared. But as any MOR filed against us will go past the desk of a CAA pilot I doudt very much we would hear anything about it. You pay enough for the landing fee it isn't to much to ask for a couple of firemen to help push it off the runway.
Spitoon could have as many words as he likes, in fact he could file for all I cared. But as any MOR filed against us will go past the desk of a CAA pilot I doudt very much we would hear anything about it. You pay enough for the landing fee it isn't to much to ask for a couple of firemen to help push it off the runway.
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You pay enough for the landing fee it isn't to much to ask for a couple of firemen to help push it off the runway.
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Clearly I've struck a nerve with some people. But I'll stand by what I've said - some of which appears to have been conveniently ignored.
I started by trying to provide a bit of elucidation on some of the points that had come up in the debate following Put1992's original question and a rider that he/she added regarding ATC. I made the point that after a birdstike during the approach, if the pilot is not having any difficulty handling the aircraft then ATC is not very interested. I've asked what just what you think ATC will do - without much response.
I've pointed out that in the UK every licensed aerodrome has to have procedures for managing the hazard presented by birds to aircraft using that aerodrome. ATC will usually play a major role in these procedures by monitoring bird activity on and around the aerodrome - and so are likely to be aware of flocks in the area. Being told about a solitary bird or two somewhere off the aerodrome is not going to change the way the hazard is managed.
The advice to land the aircraft and then stop on the runway simply because the aircraft has suffered a birdstike is not good. As I said 'Do that on a runway I'm controlling without a darn good reason and we'll be having words!'. By blocking the runway unnecessarily you present an unnecessary hazard to other users of the aerodrome.
On the other hand, tell me, or give me the slightest reason to think that you're having trouble with the aircraft or you're shaken up by the experience and you'll be met by plenty of people to help you.
I love people who think that filing an MOR is the ultimate threat. And I'm glad to see that he/she believes that any MOR filed against 'us', and I guess that means GA, will be seen by a 'CAA pilot' and, presumably, quashed, again I must guess that's because pilots side with pilots. Fortunately neither supposition is correct.
Still, back to the question. I've tried to give a balanced view in response to comments and assumptions made in some posts. If you choose to believe something else so be it.
P.S. - All of the above is, of course, not necessarily true at an unlicensed aerodrome or where the air traffic service is something other than ATC. But I'm sure I don't need to tell you that...
I started by trying to provide a bit of elucidation on some of the points that had come up in the debate following Put1992's original question and a rider that he/she added regarding ATC. I made the point that after a birdstike during the approach, if the pilot is not having any difficulty handling the aircraft then ATC is not very interested. I've asked what just what you think ATC will do - without much response.
I've pointed out that in the UK every licensed aerodrome has to have procedures for managing the hazard presented by birds to aircraft using that aerodrome. ATC will usually play a major role in these procedures by monitoring bird activity on and around the aerodrome - and so are likely to be aware of flocks in the area. Being told about a solitary bird or two somewhere off the aerodrome is not going to change the way the hazard is managed.
The advice to land the aircraft and then stop on the runway simply because the aircraft has suffered a birdstike is not good. As I said 'Do that on a runway I'm controlling without a darn good reason and we'll be having words!'. By blocking the runway unnecessarily you present an unnecessary hazard to other users of the aerodrome.
On the other hand, tell me, or give me the slightest reason to think that you're having trouble with the aircraft or you're shaken up by the experience and you'll be met by plenty of people to help you.
Originally Posted by mad_jock
Spitoon could have as many words as he likes, in fact he could file for all I cared. But as any MOR filed against us will go past the desk of a CAA pilot I doudt very much we would hear anything about it. You pay enough for the landing fee it isn't to much to ask for a couple of firemen to help push it off the runway.
Still, back to the question. I've tried to give a balanced view in response to comments and assumptions made in some posts. If you choose to believe something else so be it.
P.S. - All of the above is, of course, not necessarily true at an unlicensed aerodrome or where the air traffic service is something other than ATC. But I'm sure I don't need to tell you that...
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Spitoon, I appreciate your feedback, and I can say that I don't personally feel you have hit a nerve.
I think I need a more specific hypothetical situation
I think I need a more specific hypothetical situation
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Sound advice. When I flew in the RAF we used landing and/or taxi lights when at low level. Studies show that birds don't like moving lights and tend to get out of the way.
Just to add my two cents worth...
Two points (apologies if these have already been made)...
One,if you see one gliding hawk, don't worry about it...its the OTHER one you should be worried about (often glide in pairs or threes)...
Two, if you see a bird early, gentle evasive manoeuvre to avoid...if its close, better to just stand on and hope for the best rather than trying to manoeuvre violently and risk doing damage to the aircraft by the manoeuvre vice the bird.
Totally agree that first and foremost (if you've taken a hit) fly first.
HP
Two points (apologies if these have already been made)...
One,if you see one gliding hawk, don't worry about it...its the OTHER one you should be worried about (often glide in pairs or threes)...
Two, if you see a bird early, gentle evasive manoeuvre to avoid...if its close, better to just stand on and hope for the best rather than trying to manoeuvre violently and risk doing damage to the aircraft by the manoeuvre vice the bird.
Totally agree that first and foremost (if you've taken a hit) fly first.
HP
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My take - Land. From 500ft on approach, you're probably going to be on the floor before you can do any decent analysis of what you hit. Talking about it to ATC (If appropriate) can wait. If it has, or if there is a risk of it having taken anything out, a go around is only putting you up there longer.
And in the example C150/2, you can open the side window, and poke your head enough to taxi off - without being a hero
Out here we get wedgetails out in the country. B-I-G bu**ers - up to 2.5m wingspan, 5kg. Love them when gliding, the best thermal indicators on the planet. They'll quite happily let you come up within about 10m before they pin the wings in and drop - or just ignore you as you cruise by. Was somewhat suprised to meet one over the city in a 172 yesterday - even more so as he was head to head, full flare, talons outstretched; don't know if he was in attack mode, or just desparately working for clearance!
And in the example C150/2, you can open the side window, and poke your head enough to taxi off - without being a hero
Out here we get wedgetails out in the country. B-I-G bu**ers - up to 2.5m wingspan, 5kg. Love them when gliding, the best thermal indicators on the planet. They'll quite happily let you come up within about 10m before they pin the wings in and drop - or just ignore you as you cruise by. Was somewhat suprised to meet one over the city in a 172 yesterday - even more so as he was head to head, full flare, talons outstretched; don't know if he was in attack mode, or just desparately working for clearance!
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Sound advice. When I flew in the RAF we used landing and/or taxi lights when at low level. Studies show that birds don't like moving lights and tend to get out of the way.
The truth is that even with a very large bird, the chances of doing significant damage at Cherokee cruise speeds aren't high, and you aren't going to be landing with an uncontrollable airplane or no visibility. Yes, in the event that you are disabled due to the condition of the aircraft (or you), then you're fully justified in taking any action you deem necessary at the time.
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I started by trying to provide a bit of elucidation on some of the points that had come up in the debate following Put1992's original question and a rider that he/she added regarding ATC. I made the point that after a birdstike during the approach, if the pilot is not having any difficulty handling the aircraft then ATC is not very interested. I've asked what just what you think ATC will do - without much response.
I guess the question can cover a whole range of scenarios which would all require different actions:
1. Bird strike \ cracked screen \ completely unable to see anything
2. Bird strike, nothing wrong
Depending on which of those occured, you would react in very different ways.
