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Oban/Glenforsa News

Old 13th Aug 2011, 20:48
  #1061 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stockport
Age: 63
Posts: 119
'good morning' has stated ...

"The fact of the matter is that fuel from a garage forecourt has no quality assurance that it is what it says on the pumps."

I'm very sorry to say this statement is not accurate.

Unleaded petrol at the forecourt IS a quality assured fuel meeting the requirements of BS 7070, that is a government administered standard and every last litre of fuel will meet this standard, whether it comes from a Tesco, Morrison's, Shell, BP, ESSO, Sainsburys ... or who ever ...

At all these locations there is clear signage that the fuel supplied meets BS 7070, it is therefore complete nonsense to say that this fuel is NOT quality assured.
avturboy is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2011, 11:59
  #1062 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 99
A very good post Kevin, well done. And an admirable stance to take.

Sadly it appears the airport operator has overstepped the mark on this issue. It is not for them to dictate what people put in their fuel tanks. It simply does not fall in their remit. If it's accurate that this is the result of lobbying by TLC then it is very poor, especially by someone who purports to be an aviation person.

Make no mistake ABC this is a safety issue. Some engines are not designed to run on Avgas.

Perhaps the MOR culture so prevalent at Oban in the past could be put to some use now. 'Safety at risk to keep the fuel supplier's cash rolling in' might be a suitable heading.

Hopefully common sense will prevail.

I have previously had sympathy for the airport. Not a lot but some. The whole runway debacle, whilst initially their fault, could have been resolved quickly were it not for the aero club and TLC. However they have no defence on this issue.
sk8erboi is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2011, 12:20
  #1063 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Too Far North
Posts: 963
I think some have missed the point of my posting.

The only part of Avgas 100LL that is a problem for Rotax engines etc is the lead. The new Avags that Total is bringing out in the UK is UNLEADED. It will be call Avgas 91UL. Think of it as 'aviation approved mogas'.

Has anyone asked Paul if he will be stocking 91UL?
Flap40 is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2011, 12:32
  #1064 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,823
You have fallen into the trap that the airport has with MORs.

They are reports thats it. There are a list of things reportable and if it falls outside that list it will be filed and nothing done about it.

Now a chirp about safe fuel and the imposition of rules that detrack from the safe operation of certain types of aircraft would be valid and would also get it through to the correct experts. Who could then correct the councils information and also cover there backsides with duty of care because they will have inforced the rule to then be told by a national body that they were incorrect.

Now that aside I can completely understand why there were concerns about 2000ltrs of fuel being transported onto council property. There is the potential for quite a nasty incident either from an enviromental accident or fire. Nothing that couldn't be sorted though with a bit of common sense and talking to the fire service etc.

It only happens very rarely in those quanitys and if anyone has any sense it would make a perfect exercise for the council services. Apart from anything that amount of people on a flyin is going to input a significant amount of cash into the local economy. And it would give the fire services a chance to get up close and personal with aircraft and discuss things with the pilots.

But then again this involves common sense!!!
mad_jock is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2011, 20:44
  #1065 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: .
Age: 32
Posts: 650

Does anyone else get the prophetic vision that Oban Airport is as doomed as a virgin on a date with Rod Stewart?

Captain Smithy is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2011, 07:36
  #1066 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sometimes north, sometimes south
Posts: 1,762
But in this case is Rod not being paid handsome sums of someone else's money to preserve the young lady's chastity - even though Rod believes the money will actually loosen her morals?

Perhaps one day she will realise she doesn't need her pimp and in any case Rod's a dirty old man and she can do a lot better with multiple partners of her own choice.

NorthSouth is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2011, 11:41
  #1067 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,108
There seems to be a whole new side to Rod and his MCR01 I knew nothing about.....
flybymike is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2011, 09:08
  #1068 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 381
I was talking to a friend the other day who is a competition lawyer. If it's really important to anyone they can and should do the following.

Send an email with a freedom of information request asking for:

1: any and all pertinent documentation on how the decision was made
2: Names, contact details and dates of those industry experts were contacted
3: Minutes of any meetings where discussion on this topic took place and the names of any attendees
4: A copy of the contract between the existing fuelling company and the Airfield operator
5: Confirmation that the operator understands that it is not able to dictate where fuel is purchased as it contravenes EU competition law.
6: details and minutes of any meetings that have taken place where discussions about increasing traffic to Connel airfield and the other ABC airfields.

They need to answer within 20 days, normally they will try to use a blanket exemption but if they do they need to cite every piece of information, why it has not been included and why it is in the public interest to leave it out.

Once it's been issued it's in the public domain!

I don't plan on going to Connel any time soon, its a dull wee place and I use MOGAS
Dan the weegie is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2011, 21:44
  #1069 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sussex and Asia
Posts: 334
Am I right in thinking that the underdog having won the war is now the dictator
Ye Olde Pilot is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 10:39
  #1070 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northland
Posts: 337

Am I right in thinking that the underdog having won the war is now the dictator
No, you are wrong.

A council employed airport manager stupidly brought 2000 lts of mogas on to a council run airfield.

This resulted in council interest in the whole mogas self fueling issue.

The fuel supplier at Connel is unable to get insured to supply mogas.

The council is unable to get insured to supply mogas.

The council reacted in a council manner.

No conspiracy.

End of.

Hope this helps.

Capt Whisky Whisky is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 11:05
  #1071 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,108
Why is there a difficulty with insurance? Is this difficulty unique to Oban and not other airfields?
flybymike is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 17:36
  #1072 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Age: 39
Posts: 91

That is a load of rubbish and you know it!

You facilitated the fuel for your mates to come over with their Yaks Cutting Paul Keegan out the loop altogether. David Howitt is getting made a scape goat so you can claim the moral high ground and look good doing so. And if this is not the case why did you not call the council or Paul and report it. It took an Argyll Aero Club member to tell Paul Keegan about it and when he confronted you- you said ''I thought you new about it''. So you sanctioned this, you could have put a stop to it but you didn't because it suited your needs. You can spin as much bull on here as you want but the simple truth is you deliberately cut Keegan out of this knowing fine well you would save your mates a fortune.

This latest action by Keegan is indefensible and you should do your best to stay out of it. It has no impact on you and I have supported you all the while but what I am hearing back suggests you think you're invincible and untouchable.

Using the fuel debacle on Mull to justify the blanket ban of Mogas is absolutely shocking. Please don't underestimate the weight of opposition that is looming to solve this matter.

Argyll Aero Club has set the precedence and we the other users will use this blue print to beat TLC and the council at their own game.


Kevin MacCuish

PS: Remember all dictators have their glory and power but most fall from grace just as quick!
madflyer26 is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 18:54
  #1073 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: edinburgh
Posts: 6
Think about it!

As I understand it MF is proposing and encouraging people to fly in and be refuelled on premises leased from the A&BC therefore bypassing any ban as it wouldn't be the "airport"
You might want to think about that long and hard. What makes you think you'll get permission to re-enter the airport ? PP can work both ways!
And of course ignorning a refusal would almost certainly breach the ANO.
You can always trailer your (freshly refuelled) aircraft away though !

On the insurance front I doubt any airfield has insurance in place that covers the sale or fuelling of motor unleaded for aircraft purposes. Be interesting to see the policy though!
good morning is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 19:19
  #1074 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: York
Age: 63
Posts: 222
For crying out loud...................SORT YOUSELVES OUT. "He said....she said". "But he made me do it". "I want to cry". " I was bullied as a child"
Have you lot any idea how stupid you are looking?
If you can't put right what's wrong, you are in the wrong job. Quit. Desist from employment . Leave work. Go away.

You're a bunch of loons and your welcome to the white Elephant a few miles north of Oban. I won't be going again.
ak7274 is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 19:27
  #1075 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,823
I am sure they could have done the same when the fence got put up.

But I suspect under scots law you would be opening up a barrel of rotten fish if they did choose to go down that route. A thus pissing even more tax payers money up the wall.

ABC can make regulations up to what you can and can't do on the ground that they control, they can't make rules for land which they don't.

The commercial supply of mogas would be a completely different kettle of fish to private individuals going out to collect fuel from a garage to refuel a private aircraft.

Is nobody going to be happy until the whole place has been shut down?
mad_jock is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 19:30
  #1076 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Posts: 1,128
Guys and girls for goodness sake behave yourselves, and I mean the council as well.
We always used to say to the visitors never mind the politics, the staff are great and the destination is wonderful.
Now you've really [email protected]@red it.
dont overfil is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 20:15
  #1077 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Peterborough
Age: 60
Posts: 56
Who is this errrr person, 'good morning'?

Thousands of aircraft on the UK register fly on MOGAS with CAA / BMAA /LAA approval............

The engines that these aircraft use are damaged by AVGAS.

What more needs to be said than that?

If ABC have, for whatever reason, decided to ban refueling with MOGAS at their facilities, then it's just another nail in Oban's coffin.

Personally I will still call at Oban when forced to do so by weather, requirement for fuel (even though my engine wear and servicing costs will increase) or just because I want to.

Everybody has the same choices to make.

Reading 'good morning's' posts, however, trying to justify the actions of a body (which has no knowledge whatsoever of aviation) making rulings that may/will endanger aircraft makes me wonder exactly what experience of aviation he/she has?

Possibly a candidate for the next consultant Oban International Airport hires?
manix-cs is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 20:36
  #1078 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Posts: 1,128
Good morning.
If you really are on the side of Oban Airport, you sound like a turkey voting for Xmas.
dont overfil is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 21:24
  #1079 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: edinburgh
Posts: 6
Not so

I'm not defending A&BC in any way or form. Just pointing out the potential pitfalls of MF's advice.
I suspect having discussed the whole issue with their insurers they have been told no cover exists for that particular practise. And now that the said insurers are fully aware why would any council employee risk being held liable?
I well remember an airshow organiser telling me the worst thing he ever did was inviting his insurers along to the display for some corporate hospitality. Premiums doubled overnight !!

Doesn't stop anyone using the airport. You can simply land with enough fuel in your tanks to leave. Purchase fuel on site in a way approved by A&BC or don't come. The choice is yours. The toy set is theirs!

Councils don't care if the facilities they are responsible for make money or not. They just hit the taxpayer for as much as is required to support what they do.

I would be more worried that the motorfuel unleaded liability issue, having raised it's head at Oban, spreads elsewhere.
good morning is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2011, 21:29
  #1080 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moray,Scotland,U.K.
Posts: 1,379
"On the insurance front I doubt any airfield has insurance in place that covers the sale or fuelling of motor unleaded for aircraft purposes. Be interesting to see the policy though!"
Why would an airfield have any responsibility for what is done by pilots/owners/maintainance? I operate out of a HIAL airport, and HIAL are not responsible for our aircraft meeting CAA requirements.
I'll continue to visit Oban, and put avgas in the tank there. Occasional avgas is recomended. I'll use auto petrol at my HIAL base.
This Oban problem affects the Oban based aircraft. Nothing seems to have changed for visitors.
I'm sorry for David Howett if he is being replaced. During the times when the Mull Fly-in was getting about 100 aircraft, large volumes of petrol were brought in, as well as an official avgas towed tanker from the then local supplier.
Maoraigh1 is offline  

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