Drones in Scotland
Join Date: Oct 2003
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The police say they will only be used when the weather is too bad for normal SARs op's.
SAR helicopter has - RADAR , NVG, FLIR, 4 sets of eyes minimum, a gazzillion years experience...
UAV er 1 camera and an operator trained by the clydebank model flying club..
That said, they are probably no greater risk to you than the average model aircraft and we have quite happily survived with them for many years.
The Strathclyde Police site link does not say they will be used ONLY in demanding conditions. I would certainly NOT be flying in these areas in such conditions.
It says they will be used to search BEFORE the arrival of other aircraft, AND can be used in poor visibility and weather.
What concerns me is that there has been no mention that any attempt will be made to notify pilots who might be in the area, nor of what lookout will be kept for aircraft. The manufacturers site mentions the controller having a helmet display.
The picture shows a mainly dark object, which will camoflage well against the cliffs, ground, and lochs.
The onboard camera is not looking for aircraft. Similar size camoflaged birds have two excellent eyes, hearing, and great manoueverability, to avoid collisions.
It says they will be used to search BEFORE the arrival of other aircraft, AND can be used in poor visibility and weather.
What concerns me is that there has been no mention that any attempt will be made to notify pilots who might be in the area, nor of what lookout will be kept for aircraft. The manufacturers site mentions the controller having a helmet display.
The picture shows a mainly dark object, which will camoflage well against the cliffs, ground, and lochs.
The onboard camera is not looking for aircraft. Similar size camoflaged birds have two excellent eyes, hearing, and great manoueverability, to avoid collisions.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North of Oban
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Size?
There was a feature in the "Oban Times" about this last week, along with a photo. I missed it but a friend was telling me about it last night. I hope to get a copy of the article and, if I can, I'll post it here.
The camera might be small, but the overall UAV is large - on a par with a sizeable model aircraft. Apparently it's painted in black and yellow.
The "OT" article also mentioned they'll be doing extensive "practice" with the thing. So, Maoraigh1's probably on the right track. My reckoning is that they'll be flying it in fair weather as well as foul.
As I fly out of Oban, it does concern me. The mountains around Argyll and Lochaber are up to 4,500' AGL. If this thing is going to be used to assist in SAR for lost climbers, etc., then it could easily be up in the region of 3000' - where we usually aim to be, thinking we're safe from low-flying jets!
I've got the names of the Officers involved and I'm going to try to contact Strathclyde Police to find out more - and if they're at least going to contact the local airport to let them know when and where the UAV is being tested.
The camera might be small, but the overall UAV is large - on a par with a sizeable model aircraft. Apparently it's painted in black and yellow.
The "OT" article also mentioned they'll be doing extensive "practice" with the thing. So, Maoraigh1's probably on the right track. My reckoning is that they'll be flying it in fair weather as well as foul.
As I fly out of Oban, it does concern me. The mountains around Argyll and Lochaber are up to 4,500' AGL. If this thing is going to be used to assist in SAR for lost climbers, etc., then it could easily be up in the region of 3000' - where we usually aim to be, thinking we're safe from low-flying jets!
I've got the names of the Officers involved and I'm going to try to contact Strathclyde Police to find out more - and if they're at least going to contact the local airport to let them know when and where the UAV is being tested.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The front end and about 50ft up
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On two occassions I have had near misses with large RC model aeroplanes. Both times, the model only became visible when at very close range (not more than 100m), at the same height and directly in my 12o/c, resulting in me having to make very aggressive emergency breaks to avoid collision. I have seen at first hand many times the damage that a small bird can cause and so I would hate to think what the outcome might be of hitting a much larger, heavier and harder model. Dense components like batteries and engine blocks would almost certainly penetrate the cockpit, even at light aircraft speeds, and I am sure could cause significant damage to airframe and aircrew.
I hope that the police will exercise some airmanship when operating these UAVs, but that might be a bit much to expect from your average bobby with no aviation experience. A good rule to start with would be to get the thing on the deck as soon as any aircraft can be heard in the vicinity. I also expect that as soon as the get their hands on these toys they will want to use them anytime, anywhere and in any weather. I don't think the rural bad weather promise will last long.
I hope that the police will exercise some airmanship when operating these UAVs, but that might be a bit much to expect from your average bobby with no aviation experience. A good rule to start with would be to get the thing on the deck as soon as any aircraft can be heard in the vicinity. I also expect that as soon as the get their hands on these toys they will want to use them anytime, anywhere and in any weather. I don't think the rural bad weather promise will last long.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
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I'd love to have a go at one of these things. Knowing how challenging it is flying proper aircraft in the mountains in bad weather, I wonder how easy these are going to be to fly let alone operate in a search role.
I hope they do work and don't get in the way, but I can't see that they will be much use in the mountains in bad weather.
I hope they do work and don't get in the way, but I can't see that they will be much use in the mountains in bad weather.
UAV information from Strathclyde Police
Email from Strathclyde Police. At that height, it is no problem.
Further to my last email to you, I've spoken with the relevant officers
and they have given me the following information for you:
The aircraft pictured was the initial test unit provided to the Force.
The aircraft to be flown operationally will be liveried in standard
yellow and black and will operate between 50 and 150 feet above ground
level within line of sight of the operator. The purpose of this pilot is
to ascertain if the equipment is suitable for use by the Force and if
there is a use for this type of technology. It has been found that it
flys well in rain and wind and is particularly useful in low cloud
conditions where traditional Air Support cannot fly sufficiently low.
A full Risk Assessment has been completed for use of the equipment and
complies with CAA guidelines with whom we maintain close liaison. Each
use of the equipment is further Risk Assessed by the operators, who were
provided training in that area as well as extensive training in use of
the equipment, and standard operating guidelines require that it be
landed if any other aircraft enter the area. Additionally, it will be
operated in consultation with the Strathclyde Police Air Support Unit to
ensure that flight notifications are provided to appropriate
authorities.
We appreciate your interest in this type of technology and also your
concerns. I assure you that safety in the use of this equipment is of
paramount importance and any safety issues identified will result in its
grounding. At this time it is not anticipated that this type of
technology will replace traditional Air Support but may compliment it.
I hope this helps address your concerns.
Regards
The Web Team
Strathclyde Police
Further to my last email to you, I've spoken with the relevant officers
and they have given me the following information for you:
The aircraft pictured was the initial test unit provided to the Force.
The aircraft to be flown operationally will be liveried in standard
yellow and black and will operate between 50 and 150 feet above ground
level within line of sight of the operator. The purpose of this pilot is
to ascertain if the equipment is suitable for use by the Force and if
there is a use for this type of technology. It has been found that it
flys well in rain and wind and is particularly useful in low cloud
conditions where traditional Air Support cannot fly sufficiently low.
A full Risk Assessment has been completed for use of the equipment and
complies with CAA guidelines with whom we maintain close liaison. Each
use of the equipment is further Risk Assessed by the operators, who were
provided training in that area as well as extensive training in use of
the equipment, and standard operating guidelines require that it be
landed if any other aircraft enter the area. Additionally, it will be
operated in consultation with the Strathclyde Police Air Support Unit to
ensure that flight notifications are provided to appropriate
authorities.
We appreciate your interest in this type of technology and also your
concerns. I assure you that safety in the use of this equipment is of
paramount importance and any safety issues identified will result in its
grounding. At this time it is not anticipated that this type of
technology will replace traditional Air Support but may compliment it.
I hope this helps address your concerns.
Regards
The Web Team
Strathclyde Police
Email response from the CAA
The trial is taking place around Oban in North Argyll using an Unmanned Aerial System whose Vehicle component weighs 1.3 Kg and has the same yellow and black colour scheme as many other police aircraft to aid its conspicuity.
However the UAV is being operated between 50 and 100 feet AGL within line of sight of the UAV Pilot and so it will not come into conflict with any other air traffic. Air Traffic Control at Oban are being notified each time the UAV is flown and if it appears that another aircraft is flying towards the UAV at low level then the UAV will be landed as a safety precaution.
It is not intended that the UAV will be flown in IMC but instead will be flown below low cloud and hill fog, within the height limits mentioned above, that would not permit the operation of conventional police helicopter or aeroplane.
However the UAV is being operated between 50 and 100 feet AGL within line of sight of the UAV Pilot and so it will not come into conflict with any other air traffic. Air Traffic Control at Oban are being notified each time the UAV is flown and if it appears that another aircraft is flying towards the UAV at low level then the UAV will be landed as a safety precaution.
It is not intended that the UAV will be flown in IMC but instead will be flown below low cloud and hill fog, within the height limits mentioned above, that would not permit the operation of conventional police helicopter or aeroplane.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
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I'm possibly repeating something that's been posted elsewhere (apols if that's the case)...Last year the Los Angeles Police Department did a demo in an urban area to the FAA with one of their UAV surveillance drones....The FAA promptly grounded them as they didn't have a licence!
