IMCR - The Petition - Please give your support

[rustle]

Originally Posted by dublinpilot

What part of the petition do you not support?

Asking "the Prime Minister to prevent the disappearance of the IMC rating when EASA take over UK flight crew licensing" when that is outside his direct control is pointless IMHO.

Asking him "to champion a solution through representations to EASA which might be acceptable to all EASA states" might be a Good Thing.

If you subscribe to the view that any publicity is good publicity then the petition is working (ish)

If you think a better petition might have been born out of constructive discussion, rather than a slanging match everytime bose-x or I posted, (which may avoid petition-fatigue through petitioning twice) then it might have been better to wait until the request of the PM was more achievable.

Whatever. I'm bound to be wrong again

[rustle]

Originally Posted by FullyFlapped

Rustle,

Which one of your posts on this thread are you holding up as a constructive attempt to out-manoeuvre objections from other EASA states ?

None on this thread, which is why I said "FFS, if you (or anyone else) think I have asked any questions in any of the multitude of IMC threads recently that any competent person might not ask then you have completely missed the point."

Originally Posted by FullyFlapped

And I'm not "slagging you off" ... but I don't see how it's helpful to adopt the position of opposition to this petition. Making people aware of the possibility of the loss of this rating IS the start of a plan, surely ? If enough of the UK pilot population sign up, it would be pretty trivial to get a newspaper interested in writing a "pilots outraged at Euro threat to UK air safety" tag : and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where you could go after that, shirley ?

FF

The "start of a plan" would be to understand the issue, galvanise support, then make it look politically a "good idea" to support it.

Asking the PM to do something he cannot do will only make him/her look "a bit crap" when they can't do it - so he/she probably won't.

Asking the PM to do something he/she can do is win-win.

Half cocked petitions without overwhelming numbers such as those seen on the road-user-charging petition achieve not a lot and dilute any further "better" petitions.

[FullyFlapped]

Rustle,

The "start of a plan" would be to understand the issue, galvanise support, then make it look politically a "good idea" to support it.

Precisely. We all understand the issue, the petition is designed to promote awareness and garner support, and any UK politician worth his/her political salt will spot the PR opportunity in championing and defending UK flight safety against those awful eurocrats ... I'm glad we agree !

FF

[S-Works]

Whilst I am sure he will talk for himself, I suspect he would say that he is not opposed to the campaign as such, more the way it has been presented.

Exactly.

I said my piece, I do not oppose your campaign. As I said I don't support it in it's present format. Simple. Making me out not to care won't make me change my mind. Sorry.

[llanfairpg]

Dont take any notice of those who have another agenda and who should really be on The Chips Away site.

You either agree with the IMC rating being retained or you do not.

If you do sign the petition, if you dont **** off.

[S-Works]

Dont take any notice of those who have another agenda and who should really be on The Chips Away site.

You either agree with the IMC rating being retained or you do not.

If you do sign the petition, if you dont **** off.

Why do we bother..... If you don't agree with me then we are not interested in what you have to say would be the correct translation of the quote above.

And you wonder why we won't support you.....

[llanfairpg]

Thanks but I neither need or want your support.

The original poster asked for help with his petition, nothing else.

[S-Works]

Good job really. I can see how you are single handedly going to abuse your way to retention of the IMCR. Perhaps it will work on the politicians?

So being rude to people who support the rating but not the method of campaign is the way forward....... I can see the intelligence in that.....

[Contacttower]

I have signed the petition...and I support Fuji's campaign. At the same time I understand bose's point of view. I don't necessarily see any contradiction in that (perhaps you could offer some more guidance bose...I know you know loads about this subject .)

I would not want to be associated with any campaign which told people to pi$$ off if they didn't agree with it.

[S-Works]

Or as the great Groucho said, I would not want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member.......


Hey llanfairpg if I sign can I be a member of your gang and snog your sister?

[Fuji Abound]

Or as the great Groucho said, I would not want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member.......

Hmmm

now before you get upset again it is not a matter of being on my hobby horse but .. .. ..

I joined a certain organisation and made two posts to draw attention to the petition - nothing more, nothing offensive, I might add .. .. ..

within 24 hours my account was permanently closed - without any explanation what so ever I might add and the thread was removed.

I still have not received an answer to my request as to why.

Your quote of course rang a bell.

On another place, where I never post and never frequent (and not for any reason than lack of time), when I did for the first time recently I was surprised to find that a number of offensive remarks had been posted. Now it doesnt bother me, but anything I post on here which might be considered to be controversial and the person is free to "defend" themselves. That courtesy does not seem unreasonable.

[S-Works]

Erm I think I get your jist and agree..... I would suspect that the moderators of said forum also did not feel that they could support the petition in it's current form?

Just not sure that has anything to do with being told if I won't join your gang I can piss off.......

I have said many times I support the concept just not the methods. I happen to take these things seriously and won't be bullied into signing something I think is flawed.

Thats my personal choice and last time I looked it was a free country!

[llanfairpg]

Great stuff but little to do with the IMC rating

[S-Works]

Oooh that's what I like single minded determination........

[Fuji Abound]

Erm I think I get your jist and agree..... I would suspect that the moderators of said forum also did not feel that they could support the petition in it's current form?

llanfairpg

Yes. I cant reconcile pulling a thread with which you dont agree for those reasons and "permanently baning" a contributor with it being a free country

.. .. .. never mind that we all seem to agree how important the IMCr is including nearly everyone of the all but 500 people signed up.

(arent you a moderator?)

[llanfairpg]

Sorry FA if you are talking to me I dont know what you mean.

All of the above 'posters' seem to make good posts about everything else on here so i cannot understand why this discussion is dragging on and on.

I do not think the petition was very well worded(as previously stated) but he has started it now and you cannot change it, so its either sign it or do not sign it.

I know its a bit boring on here at the moment but put your energy into something interesting about private flying rather than just drivelling on about free speech, joining gangs etc or join the Beano forum

[Fuji Abound]

llanfairpg

The yes was directed at you - nothing more.

So far as your earlier comments are concerned I believe

If you support the petition - you must sign it,

If you support the notion that the IMCr should be retained - then you should sign the petition because it is indicative of the principle which you do support,

but if you dont beleive the IMCr should be retrained or have an alternative view you should be free to rationally express your view whilst supporting the right of everyone else to promote the petition as widely as they believe fit.

[llanfairpg]

I agree with you
so my opinion is if you dont want to sign it dont and you know what!

[rustle]

Originally Posted by Fuji Abound

On another place, where I never post and never frequent (and not for any reason than lack of time), when I did for the first time recently I was surprised to find that a number of offensive remarks had been posted. Now it doesnt bother me, but anything I post on here which might be considered to be controversial and the person is free to "defend" themselves. That courtesy does not seem unreasonable.

Neither of the two forums you allude to are unique in deleting posts without rhyme nor reason...

[Fuji Abound]

llanfairpg

Of course Stalin took a different view with his Generals who didnt do things his way:

was it something like - one objector, one problem, no objectors, no problems.

Not that I subscribe to Stalin of course.