IMCR - The Petition - Please give your support
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There is a poster, not a million miles from here who allegedly 'spammed' the Pink Aviators own forum causing it to crash and costing the site owner a fortune to get it sorted out......... (and he -the spammer- is in IT......)
Some people will not learn will they....
Very childish if you ask me.
I am very now hungry and just off to rustle up some food.
See you next time.
Some people will not learn will they....
Very childish if you ask me.
I am very now hungry and just off to rustle up some food.
See you next time.
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It wouldn't surprise me if certain people on here are deliberately trying to sabotage this venture, and hence another attempt to save the IMCr in the process....Indeed someone on ONE of these forums must be doing it, as these are the only places it has been posted.
Not saying anyone is of course, but it wouldn't surprise me....Why else would someone be such a low life tosser to add these bogus names.....
Probably the same ort of person that dobs on their neighbour for having a noisy aeroplane....
Not saying anyone is of course, but it wouldn't surprise me....Why else would someone be such a low life tosser to add these bogus names.....
Probably the same ort of person that dobs on their neighbour for having a noisy aeroplane....
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Originally Posted by englishal
Indeed someone on ONE of these forums must be doing it, as these are the only places it has been posted.
All petitions are listed in the index by date opened/date closing/number of "signatures"
If you think the only way to find new petitions is by someone linking to them you are wrong.
Search the petitions site for "CAA" or "aviation" or "pilot" and see how many you can find.
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No of course it is not the only way to find out about them....
But it is a coincidence isn't it? And I wouldn't put it past someone on here....and as BoseX's name was allegedly put on there, then it MUST have come from someone viewing one of these forums no?
But it is a coincidence isn't it? And I wouldn't put it past someone on here....and as BoseX's name was allegedly put on there, then it MUST have come from someone viewing one of these forums no?
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Infact this one about LoS is looking a bit sad 
with only three sigs...
with only three sigs...
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Well, however you look at it, still nearly 50 a day - 376 names now on the petition - and it is just the start!
Please tell all your buddies to sign up, tell the instructors, tell your mates at the Flying Schools.
Whatever it does or doesnt achieve it is a hell of a measure of the ongoing support.
Worth also noting that at the current rate over 5,000 pilots will have signed by the time the petition closes.
Please tell all your buddies to sign up, tell the instructors, tell your mates at the Flying Schools.
Whatever it does or doesnt achieve it is a hell of a measure of the ongoing support.
Worth also noting that at the current rate over 5,000 pilots will have signed by the time the petition closes.
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Wet wet wet
True. However I dont think you will find there are very many false names.
However, lest it be forgotten another unashmaed BTT and another reminder of the place to go. I believe it really is important.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IMC-Rating/
True. However I dont think you will find there are very many false names.
However, lest it be forgotten another unashmaed BTT and another reminder of the place to go. I believe it really is important.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IMC-Rating/
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Whilst I think it is a waste of time and badly worded. Not to mention the 5,000 signature being a tad optimistic I think the attempts to sabotage it are pathetic.
I would also rather my name had not been added to it as I don't support it in it's current format.
I would also rather my name had not been added to it as I don't support it in it's current format.
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I don't actually see why anyone one shouldn't wish to oppose the possible loss of the IMC rating.
Furthermore, I completely fail to understand why anyone (especially one who claims to support the retention of the IMC rating) should be so negative about the efforts of others to save it.
I would support any kind of campaign to save the IMC rating, no matter how weak an idea I felt that particular campaign to be.
Furthermore, I completely fail to understand why anyone (especially one who claims to support the retention of the IMC rating) should be so negative about the efforts of others to save it.
I would support any kind of campaign to save the IMC rating, no matter how weak an idea I felt that particular campaign to be.
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I am sorry Julian, but I have stated my position. I think the IMCR deserves saving but I think that your campaign is cack handed and does little to give credibility to the situation.
I have given you my forecast of the result. If I am proven wrong please feel free to point it out.
In the meantime I can't just add my name to your campaign to give it strength in numbers. It's a principle thing. Sorry.
I have given you my forecast of the result. If I am proven wrong please feel free to point it out.
In the meantime I can't just add my name to your campaign to give it strength in numbers. It's a principle thing. Sorry.
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Bose it's not 'MY' campaign. It is a campaign which belongs to all 416 (and growing) people who have signed the petition.
Principle my arse.
Some people seem to climb the aviation ladder and then try to pull the ladder up behind them to prevent others reaching their lofty position. As an attitude, this sucks and it depresses me.
You have an Instrument Rating and seem pretty indifferent about those 'lesser souls' who don't have one and who are reliant on their IMC rating to get airborne when the weather is less than perfect.
I went from having a PPL, through to commercial flying on King Airs and now a Lear Jet. I only achieved this with a HUGE amount of generously given help and advice from others in the aviation community. To progress my career still further, I will remain reliant on help from others who know more and have more experience than I do.
In turn, I feel that it is encumbent on me to help those who have less experience than I do to progress their flying (be it as a career or a hobby) to whatever extent that I am able to. This is how it works.
I would suggest that an "I'm alright Jack" attitude doesn't really have a place in aviation and as an experienced aviator you should be ashamed of yourself.
It's a principle thing. Sorry.
Some people seem to climb the aviation ladder and then try to pull the ladder up behind them to prevent others reaching their lofty position. As an attitude, this sucks and it depresses me.
You have an Instrument Rating and seem pretty indifferent about those 'lesser souls' who don't have one and who are reliant on their IMC rating to get airborne when the weather is less than perfect.
I went from having a PPL, through to commercial flying on King Airs and now a Lear Jet. I only achieved this with a HUGE amount of generously given help and advice from others in the aviation community. To progress my career still further, I will remain reliant on help from others who know more and have more experience than I do.
In turn, I feel that it is encumbent on me to help those who have less experience than I do to progress their flying (be it as a career or a hobby) to whatever extent that I am able to. This is how it works.
I would suggest that an "I'm alright Jack" attitude doesn't really have a place in aviation and as an experienced aviator you should be ashamed of yourself.
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This is an attitude that very sadly pervades GA like no other "activity". I dont think it has anything to do with the "professional" and "amateur" elements being combined because in my experience the professionals take your view point.
That is not to say that Bose falls into that camp.
Whilst I am sure he will talk for himself, I suspect he would say that he is not opposed to the campaign as such, more the way it has been presented.
As I have sort to explain, in my opinion I dont beleive his argument holds water. I firmly believe given the timescales step one is to ensure as many pilots as possible are aware of the issues. If this is achieved in part by a petition then so much the better. It is not the complete solution and a great deal more lobbying will be required.
As I suspect everyone knows only to well my own view is that none of the representative bodies were publising the issue or promoting it as well as was needed. I appreciate once again on that point Bose and I will disagree.
.. .. .. and back to the petition - I think the support already is superb and I would once again join you in asking everyone to please keep signing up - it is the best start we can make and I firmly believe it will help to demonstrate the strength of view that exists.
PLEASE SIGN
That is not to say that Bose falls into that camp.
Whilst I am sure he will talk for himself, I suspect he would say that he is not opposed to the campaign as such, more the way it has been presented.
As I have sort to explain, in my opinion I dont beleive his argument holds water. I firmly believe given the timescales step one is to ensure as many pilots as possible are aware of the issues. If this is achieved in part by a petition then so much the better. It is not the complete solution and a great deal more lobbying will be required.
As I suspect everyone knows only to well my own view is that none of the representative bodies were publising the issue or promoting it as well as was needed. I appreciate once again on that point Bose and I will disagree.
.. .. .. and back to the petition - I think the support already is superb and I would once again join you in asking everyone to please keep signing up - it is the best start we can make and I firmly believe it will help to demonstrate the strength of view that exists.
PLEASE SIGN
You will also find that those pilots who, like myself, have held IRs of various types for the past 36 years on aircraft from Bulldog to Phantom to VC10 are quite happy to restrict their retirement IF requirements to the privileges afforded by the IMCR.
I opened my ATPL with a IR/MPA on the VC10 - I didn't need any IR at all to have it re-issued 5 years later.
I don't need - or wish to pay for - the privileges to fly SEP Class aeroplanes under IFR in Class A these days, neither do I need to fly to Cat1 minima. If the weather is that bad, I'll be doing something else!
The UK IMCR provides precisely what I need, is affordable and safe. It is a model the rest of €uroland should adopt with enthusiasm!
I opened my ATPL with a IR/MPA on the VC10 - I didn't need any IR at all to have it re-issued 5 years later.
I don't need - or wish to pay for - the privileges to fly SEP Class aeroplanes under IFR in Class A these days, neither do I need to fly to Cat1 minima. If the weather is that bad, I'll be doing something else!
The UK IMCR provides precisely what I need, is affordable and safe. It is a model the rest of €uroland should adopt with enthusiasm!
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IMC ratings are an important sources of revenue for flying schools/clubs is one reason for signing.
By not signing you are saying that you do not agree with the UK IMC rating as a useful qualification for the PPL. I have seen the results of pilots who have had no instrument training, not very nice.
By not signing you are saying that you do not agree with the UK IMC rating as a useful qualification for the PPL. I have seen the results of pilots who have had no instrument training, not very nice.
Last edited by llanfairpg; 18th Dec 2007 at 13:28.
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Originally Posted by llanfairpg
By not signing you are saying that you do not agree with the UK IMC rating as a useful qualification for the PPL.
I think the IMC rating is a tremendous rating. I had one for a while.
That belief doesn't compel me to sign a petition though.
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I think the IMC rating is a tremendous rating. I had one for a while.
That belief doesn't compel me to sign a petition though.
That belief doesn't compel me to sign a petition though.
But just for the sake of argument, if you believe the rating is "tremendous", why won't you sign up to keep it ?
FF (signed up, BTW)
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Originally Posted by FullyFlapped
It obviously doesn't compel you to do anything : and that includes atacking those who are getting off their arses to try and help others (irregardless of whether you believe their actions are misdirected or not).
But just for the sake of argument, if you believe the rating is "tremendous", why won't you sign up to keep it ?
FF (signed up, BTW)
But just for the sake of argument, if you believe the rating is "tremendous", why won't you sign up to keep it ?
FF (signed up, BTW)
FFS, if you (or anyone else) think I have asked any questions in any of the multitude of IMC threads recently that any competent person might not ask then you have completely missed the point.
If "getting off his arse to help" means starting a few threads on PPRuNe, then
: Well done.If "getting off his arse to help" means starting a badly worded petition, then
: Well done.But if "getting off his arse to help" meant finding out what the objections from the other EASA states might be and crafting an argument to counter those objections then it might have been a genuine
Bose and I (amongst others) have mentioned some of the other EASA-state's potential issues with an IMC rating, and if you think it furthers the cause of retaining or re-birthing the IMC rating to slag me off for asking questions instead of actually thinking through some of the objections and finding something (anything) to counter them then you are seriously misguided.
Good luck with the cause.
Once you have formulated a plan or counter argument get a petition going that enables the PM to champion that plan: That I will sign happily.
Last edited by rustle; 18th Dec 2007 at 17:08.
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Rustle,
Which one of your posts on this thread are you holding up as a constructive attempt to out-manoeuvre objections from other EASA states ?
And I'm not "slagging you off" ... but I don't see how it's helpful to adopt the position of opposition to this petition. Making people aware of the possibility of the loss of this rating IS the start of a plan, surely ? If enough of the UK pilot population sign up, it would be pretty trivial to get a newspaper interested in writing a "pilots outraged at Euro threat to UK air safety" tag : and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where you could go after that, shirley ?
FF
Which one of your posts on this thread are you holding up as a constructive attempt to out-manoeuvre objections from other EASA states ?
And I'm not "slagging you off" ... but I don't see how it's helpful to adopt the position of opposition to this petition. Making people aware of the possibility of the loss of this rating IS the start of a plan, surely ? If enough of the UK pilot population sign up, it would be pretty trivial to get a newspaper interested in writing a "pilots outraged at Euro threat to UK air safety" tag : and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where you could go after that, shirley ?
FF