IMCR - The Petition - Please give your support
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let me nail my colours to the mast : I am happy to say I fully support the petition and campaign, have signed up and am available to help however I can.
Like many others reading this forum, I have absolutely no problem understanding the methods and aims behind Fuji's campaign (I am sure he wouldn't want it called that, but I believe he deserves huge credit for getting this ball rolling) and how this might progress beyond initial support gathering. To those of us who have had exposure to/worked in the media, it's blindingly obvious how this might work.
I have held off from commenting on the position of the detractors because I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion. And it's been amusing to watch how these negatives have morphed from outright condemnation and childish comments to a position of "we only want to point out that your aims aren't at all clear : you'll thank us one day". It seems that standing tall and beating your chest aren't that easy to do once the sand starts to shift beneath your feet ...
Well, there are two ways this can go. One is that at least someone tried to defend our rights and liberties, and failed because the vested interests were too powerful. The other is that someone tried to defend our rights and liberties, and either succeeded outright or at least brought about the creation of some acceptable middle ground. Either way it is an admirable process which deserves constructive support.
As to those wisemen who believe that this will have little effect because they "know how things are done" (largely in secret, apparently) : to those who cannot see the viewpoint of others who are frustrated by the seemingly endless erosion of our rights and liberties by brown-nosed surrender monkeys, and who just want to fight back for a change - well, you're still entitled to your opinions.
I'd even buy you a beer while we argue about it !
Like many others reading this forum, I have absolutely no problem understanding the methods and aims behind Fuji's campaign (I am sure he wouldn't want it called that, but I believe he deserves huge credit for getting this ball rolling) and how this might progress beyond initial support gathering. To those of us who have had exposure to/worked in the media, it's blindingly obvious how this might work.
I have held off from commenting on the position of the detractors because I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion. And it's been amusing to watch how these negatives have morphed from outright condemnation and childish comments to a position of "we only want to point out that your aims aren't at all clear : you'll thank us one day". It seems that standing tall and beating your chest aren't that easy to do once the sand starts to shift beneath your feet ...
Well, there are two ways this can go. One is that at least someone tried to defend our rights and liberties, and failed because the vested interests were too powerful. The other is that someone tried to defend our rights and liberties, and either succeeded outright or at least brought about the creation of some acceptable middle ground. Either way it is an admirable process which deserves constructive support.
As to those wisemen who believe that this will have little effect because they "know how things are done" (largely in secret, apparently) : to those who cannot see the viewpoint of others who are frustrated by the seemingly endless erosion of our rights and liberties by brown-nosed surrender monkeys, and who just want to fight back for a change - well, you're still entitled to your opinions.
I'd even buy you a beer while we argue about it !
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: heathrow
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like many others reading this forum, I have absolutely no problem understanding the methods and aims behind Fuji's campaign
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK OK OK - Fuji, Julian ... and whoever else I may have missed ! Well done to all of them.
Gcolyer ... any time, mate .. but you'll have to take it with a proper head on it ... not that watery muck you boys drink out of vases dahn sarf ...
Gcolyer ... any time, mate .. but you'll have to take it with a proper head on it ... not that watery muck you boys drink out of vases dahn sarf ...
Blah Blah Blah
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Malmesbury VRP
Age: 49
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't tar me with the suvna brush!!! i may be a suvna but i know how to have a propa beer wiv a propa ed on it. And none of that nancy boy larger stuff.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK OK OK - Fuji, Julian ... and whoever else I may have missed ! Well done to all of them.
I firmly believe the key at this stage in the game is to spread the message wide and far.
This is where it is so important everyone does their bit.
Please take just a minute to print off a bundle of the flyers from the web site and pin them up on your club notice board, every FBO you walk through and every flying club you might pass through on your travels. Lets make it our mission that every board will have a flyer on it.
Please try and bring the matter to the attention of fellow pilots when you meet. It is still of concern how many do not realise what is taking place.
It is so often said, and so easy to think, I'll leave it to someone else, but it is up to each of us.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I posted this elsewhere but it is just as relevant here.
One aspect causes me increasing concern.
Put simply, few people understand what is taking place.
A few that do reassure us what a marvellous job is being done but satisfying ourselves that is so is more painful than having teeth extracted without pain killers.
Now, if I was concerned about the future of the IMC rating, or any other issue for that matter, I would want to know what my representative body was doing for me. After all we pay them to keep us informed.
It is not good enough so far as I am concerned to be told “we know best”, “leave it all to us”.
How else do you judge if your case is being properly represented?
From the numerous emails I have received, feedback at www.ukimc.org and comment here and else where, it is becoming clear that many believe their views are not being represented.
The ECA now has two members on the FCL working group. BALPA is on of 32 members of the ECA. The ECA is reported as being opposed to the retention of the IMC rating. Does this reflect the views of BAPL members - it would seem not.
So what is my point?
Do you want these people making decisions for you when you don’t know what their position is on the issue, or why they have adopted that position?
Do you want these people making decisions for you when it is unclear whether they understand the views of their members
Do you know what they have done to establish what your view is?
Now there are plenty of us on here who are members of AOPA, BALPA or some of the other representative bodies.
I would suggest that you pick up your pen, or keyboard and write -
ask them what their view is,
ask them for copies of the minutes of the meetings that have taken place,
ask them whether they are satisfied they have taken a pole of the view of their members,
ask them who is representing you on the FCL committee,
ask them who are ojecting to the retention of the IMC rating and why,
ask them what evidence they have put before the working group with regards the safety record of pilots who hold the rating.
After all without this information how do you know they are representing you in the way you would wish?
AOPA - [email protected]
BAPL - [email protected]
ECA - http://www.eurocockpit.be/component/...,21/Itemid,74/
You might be surprised by the reply you receive.
One aspect causes me increasing concern.
Put simply, few people understand what is taking place.
A few that do reassure us what a marvellous job is being done but satisfying ourselves that is so is more painful than having teeth extracted without pain killers.
Now, if I was concerned about the future of the IMC rating, or any other issue for that matter, I would want to know what my representative body was doing for me. After all we pay them to keep us informed.
It is not good enough so far as I am concerned to be told “we know best”, “leave it all to us”.
How else do you judge if your case is being properly represented?
From the numerous emails I have received, feedback at www.ukimc.org and comment here and else where, it is becoming clear that many believe their views are not being represented.
The ECA now has two members on the FCL working group. BALPA is on of 32 members of the ECA. The ECA is reported as being opposed to the retention of the IMC rating. Does this reflect the views of BAPL members - it would seem not.
So what is my point?
Do you want these people making decisions for you when you don’t know what their position is on the issue, or why they have adopted that position?
Do you want these people making decisions for you when it is unclear whether they understand the views of their members
Do you know what they have done to establish what your view is?
Now there are plenty of us on here who are members of AOPA, BALPA or some of the other representative bodies.
I would suggest that you pick up your pen, or keyboard and write -
ask them what their view is,
ask them for copies of the minutes of the meetings that have taken place,
ask them whether they are satisfied they have taken a pole of the view of their members,
ask them who is representing you on the FCL committee,
ask them who are ojecting to the retention of the IMC rating and why,
ask them what evidence they have put before the working group with regards the safety record of pilots who hold the rating.
After all without this information how do you know they are representing you in the way you would wish?
AOPA - [email protected]
BAPL - [email protected]
ECA - http://www.eurocockpit.be/component/...,21/Itemid,74/
You might be surprised by the reply you receive.
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 12th Jan 2008 at 15:09.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Age: 52
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I am very happy with all that AOPA have done to date on this subject. I don't though believe that the fact they are doing 'something' obviates the need for everyone else to do something too.
Absolutely everyone should do absolutely everything that they can to raise awareness about what is happening.
Absolutely everyone should do absolutely everything that they can to raise awareness about what is happening.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Julian
The trouble is I dont know whether or not to agree with you.
How can you access what they have done when so little is said?
I know a number of people have written. It will be interesting to see what response they get.
So much for open government.
The trouble is I dont know whether or not to agree with you.
How can you access what they have done when so little is said?
I know a number of people have written. It will be interesting to see what response they get.
So much for open government.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Age: 52
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The AOPA page in Pilot magazine is about the best source of information on what they've been up to.
My view is that the AOPA stance on this is absolutely right and their input to the EASA process is about right.
What AOPA have pretty much failed to do is to spread awareness of what could well happen amongst the GA community and that's what 'we' need to do.
My view is that the AOPA stance on this is absolutely right and their input to the EASA process is about right.
What AOPA have pretty much failed to do is to spread awareness of what could well happen amongst the GA community and that's what 'we' need to do.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Posts: 1,121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I avidly support this campaign to retain the IMC (although I do admit to having lost touch with exactly where the process is) and I have signed the petition (somewhere about No.12 I think) and I did take the time to write to Lembit Opik MP (before I found out that he had already written an article in FTN - 
).
However, I am a bit concerned that it is a case of preaching to the converted.
I may very well be wrong but it seems that the activity is being directed at UK bodies to bring them on side when the UK is the one country that is in favour of retention of the rating and I feel that all this hard work may be going to waste when, at the end of the day the vote is still against the UK.
Shouldn't the process be directed at convincing other NAAs of the benefits to flight safety by producing whatever hard facts are available. I'm sure that there is enough talent out there to put together a well worded working document, have this translated into the member languages of the FCL1 sub-committee and distributed to all. I don't know but it seems to me that the way to get them on board is to produce proper argument rather than amassing a big gang to beat them up - although I am also in favour of the literal application of the latter
.
Just a thought.
I'll fetch me coat................
). However, I am a bit concerned that it is a case of preaching to the converted.
I may very well be wrong but it seems that the activity is being directed at UK bodies to bring them on side when the UK is the one country that is in favour of retention of the rating and I feel that all this hard work may be going to waste when, at the end of the day the vote is still against the UK.
Shouldn't the process be directed at convincing other NAAs of the benefits to flight safety by producing whatever hard facts are available. I'm sure that there is enough talent out there to put together a well worded working document, have this translated into the member languages of the FCL1 sub-committee and distributed to all. I don't know but it seems to me that the way to get them on board is to produce proper argument rather than amassing a big gang to beat them up - although I am also in favour of the literal application of the latter
.Just a thought.
I'll fetch me coat................
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2close
I totally agree.
I don’t know whether or not this has already been done by the representative bodies and if so when and how.
This was part of the reason for my earlier post. It seems to be extraordinarily difficult to establish who has already done what - it is like a cloak and danger mystery. Unfortunately when you write and ask they don’t tell you.
Of course this makes it very difficult to know the best way in which to focus the campaign. Clearly the last thing one wants to do is re-invent the wheel by going over ground that has already been covered. On the other hand it is my distinct impression that some of the ground has not been covered.
Personally, I think the members of each of the representative bodies should be asking these questions.
If I didnt get answers I wouldn’t be joining next year.
I totally agree.
I don’t know whether or not this has already been done by the representative bodies and if so when and how.
This was part of the reason for my earlier post. It seems to be extraordinarily difficult to establish who has already done what - it is like a cloak and danger mystery. Unfortunately when you write and ask they don’t tell you.
Of course this makes it very difficult to know the best way in which to focus the campaign. Clearly the last thing one wants to do is re-invent the wheel by going over ground that has already been covered. On the other hand it is my distinct impression that some of the ground has not been covered.
Personally, I think the members of each of the representative bodies should be asking these questions.
If I didnt get answers I wouldn’t be joining next year.
