Light single into Gatwick?
Fly Conventional Gear
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Just one question for those who have done this before....when I rang Interflight and arranged the slot and everything I then asked the woman on the phone if there was anyone else I needed to call prior to arriving; she said no, just book out at Thruxton (my departure airfield) I took that to mean just the normal thing one would do for any flight....but then I wondered...is there something else?
Reason I ask is that my experience of really big airports is only in the US....and there you just turn up (and ask for 10 ILS approaches or whatever takes your facy that day
)....
Reason I ask is that my experience of really big airports is only in the US....and there you just turn up (and ask for 10 ILS approaches or whatever takes your facy that day
)....
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When I did it, I asked Interflight which frequency they would expect me to call them on first as I believe there are several, approach, director etc.
I was inbound to Gatwick all the way from Shoreham. I called the freq Interflight had given me. To be honest the controller was a bit confused at first because I guess most of her traffic is handed on from an approach controller. Anyway after a couple of seconds she must have found my details, 'cos it all turned out ok.
Anyway listen to the ATIS, I'm sure it will say something like report Information "xxxx" and aircraft type on first contact. Then add G-XXXX inbound from Thruxton.... The controller will tell you "radar vectors to the ILS rwy XX.
In true Pprune form, I wait to be corrected!
I was inbound to Gatwick all the way from Shoreham. I called the freq Interflight had given me. To be honest the controller was a bit confused at first because I guess most of her traffic is handed on from an approach controller. Anyway after a couple of seconds she must have found my details, 'cos it all turned out ok.
Anyway listen to the ATIS, I'm sure it will say something like report Information "xxxx" and aircraft type on first contact. Then add G-XXXX inbound from Thruxton.... The controller will tell you "radar vectors to the ILS rwy XX.
In true Pprune form, I wait to be corrected!
Fly Conventional Gear
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Thanks Three Yellows....that all sounds right to me. I was going to call on 126.825 first (having got ATIS) which according to the AIP is callsign 'Director'.
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Draw a line straight up from the base of the windscreen on that Piper to the thin building and that's my office window! Great view from up there...
The OddOne
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Sounds about right.
I'm sure you will enjoy it. One of the funniest things when I did it was the following exchange when I was about three miles out.
TWR " Speedbird XXX, after the next landing PA28 line up"
Speedbird XXX " After the WHAT?@!**??!@?"
Look forward to hearing all about it when you get back. Are you going for a reason or just a £400 bacon roll (The LGW fees being 50p and the overpriced BAA Bacon roll being £395.50)
I'm sure you will enjoy it. One of the funniest things when I did it was the following exchange when I was about three miles out.
TWR " Speedbird XXX, after the next landing PA28 line up"
Speedbird XXX " After the WHAT?@!**??!@?"
Look forward to hearing all about it when you get back. Are you going for a reason or just a £400 bacon roll (The LGW fees being 50p and the overpriced BAA Bacon roll being £395.50)
Fly Conventional Gear
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I'm going to get my logbook from the 
CAA.
Sounds classic, the logbook is more of an excuse (to myself) than a reason.
CAA.
TWR " Speedbird XXX, after the next landing PA28 line up"
Speedbird XXX " After the WHAT?"
Speedbird XXX " After the WHAT?"
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Groundloop at Gatwick
Hoodie said:
Yup, you're quite right it was in 1990. The late, great Roy Castle was attempting to break the wingwalking World record by flying from Gatwick to Paris atop Vic Norman's Stearman. Off went Roy to be followed by the Jodel, which did as described above and the incident did indeed black these sorts of 'fun' activities from LGW. Glad I was off duty that day. As Ops staff, we were always keen to support such adventures, but Snr Mgmt took a dim view to the airport being shut for 3 hours. I never landed at Gatwick during my career there, but I did manage to get down to 50' in a 172, paid for by the Company, when we were evaluating a new track keeping system. I was under pain of death or dismissal not to touch the runway, such was politics around GA at the time.
We'd pull out all the stops to help anyone that needed it, but woe betide anyone who 'arrived' without a slot. Stick to the rules and you can get a lot!
The OddOne
The story, as I heard it, was that a film crew wanted to take footage to commemorate something or other, so organised with a lightie owner to provide an aircraft to do same.
A Jodel was provided, but with pilot, talent, soundman and cameraman on board it came to grief on take-off with a main gear collapse (post groundloop?), Blacking the airport and making GA's name mud there for many a moon.
A Jodel was provided, but with pilot, talent, soundman and cameraman on board it came to grief on take-off with a main gear collapse (post groundloop?), Blacking the airport and making GA's name mud there for many a moon.
We'd pull out all the stops to help anyone that needed it, but woe betide anyone who 'arrived' without a slot. Stick to the rules and you can get a lot!
The OddOne
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Just one question for those who have done this before....when I rang Interflight and arranged the slot and everything I then asked the woman on the phone if there was anyone else I needed to call prior to arriving; she said no, just book out at Thruxton (my departure airfield) I took that to mean just the normal thing one would do for any flight....but then I wondered...is there something else?
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Nope they do not need a flight plan if VFR. Just do your normal thing at base and turn up. You are paying a significant amount of money for the handling agent to make sure everything goes smoothly. And if it does not make your you complain vociferously. I have had free handling on return visits at a couple of other places after complaining. Edinburgh charged me £114 quid for handling not to mention the landing fees etc. and why I asked for a taxi told me to call my own! I wrote to the MD of midwest pointing out I use them a lot and got a large credit.
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Lucky fellows you are over there. Here in the Netherlands, a flightplan is required when flying in or out of any controlled airport, even VFR, even if all you want to do is a few circuits. For us, based at Rotterdam, that means always. In fact, I get confused when flying from one uncontrolled field to another and not having to file a plan. Occupational hazard I guess.
Fly Conventional Gear
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You are paying a significant amount of money for the handling agent to make sure everything goes smoothly. And if it does not make your you complain vociferously.
), I take a very dim view of people who take your money and then don't deliver.
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"I rang Interflight and arranged the slot and everything I then asked the woman on the phone if there was anyone else I needed to call prior to arriving"
Your bank manager?
SB
Your bank manager?
SB
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Should a pilot without IMCR or IR accept a "Radar vectors for the ILS" in Class D (assuming VMC)? Once accepted, ATC will expect the approach to be flown to IR standards which could be a challenge, even in good VMC. I know that you cannot (legally) accept an IFR clearance in most of Europe, but what about UK?
Personally I would have asked for a visual join, prior to getting my IMCR. Come to think of it, even now I couldn't accept as I don't have a glideslope in the aircraft.
Personally I would have asked for a visual join, prior to getting my IMCR. Come to think of it, even now I couldn't accept as I don't have a glideslope in the aircraft.
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Well, you have a point of course.
When I was not IMCR Rated and conscious that I would be flying very near the Belgrano, my reply to "expect radar vectors to the ILS" was that I was VFR, but could accept radar vectors. Isn't flying a heading given to you by a controller part of the basic PPL?
Luckily it was CAVOK. I was rather assuming that the controller's reply to my intial call, " expect radar vectors to the ILS" was a knee jerk reaction on her part as that's what she says to 99.9999% of aircraft.
I'll get me coat.
When I was not IMCR Rated and conscious that I would be flying very near the Belgrano, my reply to "expect radar vectors to the ILS" was that I was VFR, but could accept radar vectors. Isn't flying a heading given to you by a controller part of the basic PPL?
Luckily it was CAVOK. I was rather assuming that the controller's reply to my intial call, " expect radar vectors to the ILS" was a knee jerk reaction on her part as that's what she says to 99.9999% of aircraft.
I'll get me coat.
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If you're inbound to Gatwick VFR the last thing you should be given is vectors on to the ILS. Tell ATC you can't do that if they suggest it again!
Why oh why do they over control in such ways?
You should just be told to position for a left or right base join then held on a base until told to position number two to whatever it is you're to follow with a "caution vortex wake, recommended spacing is x miles" thrown in.
You then position yourself on final behind the traffic and, if you're sensible, you fly above the preceeding traffic's glideslope, land long and vacate.
Oh so simple...
Why oh why do they over control in such ways?
You should just be told to position for a left or right base join then held on a base until told to position number two to whatever it is you're to follow with a "caution vortex wake, recommended spacing is x miles" thrown in.
You then position yourself on final behind the traffic and, if you're sensible, you fly above the preceeding traffic's glideslope, land long and vacate.
Oh so simple...
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I'm sure you are correct about the knee jerk response of the controller and any PPL should be able to fly a heading. It is intercepting and flying the ILS and reporting established etc that concerns me.
I can see a situation developing where the controller has an expectation of pilot abilities that differs from reality. Considering that a poorly executed go-around will put you in the carpark of the Belgrano it is probably not the best place to be experimenting!
I can see a situation developing where the controller has an expectation of pilot abilities that differs from reality. Considering that a poorly executed go-around will put you in the carpark of the Belgrano it is probably not the best place to be experimenting!
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I think it takes several hundred hours and a lot of experience before a PPL would 'disagree' (term used very broadly) with a controller, especially in an very very busy place like Gatwick where everyone else on the freq has 1000's of hours and an ATPL with lots of scrambled egg on their hats.
I know, because I've read it on here, that ATCOs are taught that they are not the 'policemen/women' of the sky. But that's not how it feels to a PPL in a PA28!
I know, because I've read it on here, that ATCOs are taught that they are not the 'policemen/women' of the sky. But that's not how it feels to a PPL in a PA28!
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Considering that a poorly executed go-around will put you in the carpark of the Belgrano it is probably not the best place to be experimenting!
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Although "vectors to the ILS" may not be technically appropriate.. "Vectors to Final" certainly is appropriate.
I don't think left/right base joins at Gatwick is entirely appropriate either - I guess it's easy for a tower controller to plan departures around an aeroplane a few miles out on final.. than one flying in circles on base leg.
I don't think left/right base joins at Gatwick is entirely appropriate either - I guess it's easy for a tower controller to plan departures around an aeroplane a few miles out on final.. than one flying in circles on base leg.
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Gatwick is a regular stop for me, both fixed wing and rotary. Usually VFR in the rotary, and the routine is hold at the North Terminal, and then land after whichever sky darkening piece of alloy has just touched down. Sadly they then make us follow A lumbering line of jumbos to a hold for a runway departure. They just can't get the idea that all I need is somewhere reasonably flat and a route nothbound away from the approach/departure path, which is pretty much what Heathrow provides. IFR in the rotary just involves flying the approach a bit quicker, the fixed wing is simplicity itself, either me or p2 flying and a sweetly fragranced hostie bringing tea and complaints from the pax!
If you are unsure what to do when asked for or given headings etc then take an instructor with you. Neither ATC or the crews operating CAT will thank you if you are on a teach yourself experience. ATC will be expecting a level of competence, not sudden curved balls. Have the radios set up and the frequencies listed where you can see them. Be prepared to do what you are told when you are told to. Frequencies can be bloody busy, be concise and give what is needed, not your inside leg measurement or what your granny had for breakfast. Enjoy it. The whole process of flying should be fun, the fun can stop when you get an earbashing from a frazzled ATCO for messing up his flow, or a sarky snap from a CAT pilot who is knackered having just flown halfway round the world, been up all night and just wants to get home, shower and sleep.
In fact thinking about it, I don't have a flight sim programme on my PC so I'm not sure whether this idea is worth it, try flying the trip on your PC before doing it for real. Not for nothing does EGKK appear on the military aircrew humour chart as "Shark Infested Custard!"
Have fun. I hope I'm there when you go. We use the same agent, and could grab coffee. I would love to see more GA using major airports.
VH
If you are unsure what to do when asked for or given headings etc then take an instructor with you. Neither ATC or the crews operating CAT will thank you if you are on a teach yourself experience. ATC will be expecting a level of competence, not sudden curved balls. Have the radios set up and the frequencies listed where you can see them. Be prepared to do what you are told when you are told to. Frequencies can be bloody busy, be concise and give what is needed, not your inside leg measurement or what your granny had for breakfast. Enjoy it. The whole process of flying should be fun, the fun can stop when you get an earbashing from a frazzled ATCO for messing up his flow, or a sarky snap from a CAT pilot who is knackered having just flown halfway round the world, been up all night and just wants to get home, shower and sleep.
In fact thinking about it, I don't have a flight sim programme on my PC so I'm not sure whether this idea is worth it, try flying the trip on your PC before doing it for real. Not for nothing does EGKK appear on the military aircrew humour chart as "Shark Infested Custard!"
Have fun. I hope I'm there when you go. We use the same agent, and could grab coffee. I would love to see more GA using major airports.
VH