Gliding
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Kenya
Gliding
I have recently just gone solo and really enjoying it however i want to start gliding as well as i hear it is really good as well. Do people think i should continue with the PPL and complete it or do gliding instead... Would you suggest doing both?
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Cambridge, England, EU
Gliding:
(1) Every landing a forced landing.
(2) Spend an entire weekend hanging around the airfield for ten minutes in the air.
(3) Even more sensitive to weather (ie even more weather cancellations) than powered flight.
Powered:
(1) Costs more. Just a bit.
(2) Noisier, if you like the idea of silent flight.
But, with powered flight you just turn up, fly your hour and go home, and you can (sometimes) fly in weather that keeps gliders on the ground.
You pays your money and you takes your choice. No reason not to do both, if you've got lots of time and lots of money.
(1) Every landing a forced landing.
(2) Spend an entire weekend hanging around the airfield for ten minutes in the air.
(3) Even more sensitive to weather (ie even more weather cancellations) than powered flight.
Powered:
(1) Costs more. Just a bit.
(2) Noisier, if you like the idea of silent flight.
But, with powered flight you just turn up, fly your hour and go home, and you can (sometimes) fly in weather that keeps gliders on the ground.
You pays your money and you takes your choice. No reason not to do both, if you've got lots of time and lots of money.
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From: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
This should be a VERY interesting event. Why not go along to watch, or, better still go and help? Unfortunately I can't be there as I have a prior engagement. 
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Not a million miles from EGTF
At your age, you would have to start prioritising things a bit.
You are early in your powered flying career. Although gliding is great and will certainly increase your skills it is not that cheap, and (potentially) will distract time and money.
Of course, if you have shedloads of money, then do both, but aviation will take all the money and time you can throw at it. It is a well-known adage that if you want to end up with a small fortune, then start off with a large one, and fly.
Doing both gliding and powered flying just accelerates the process.
You are early in your powered flying career. Although gliding is great and will certainly increase your skills it is not that cheap, and (potentially) will distract time and money.
Of course, if you have shedloads of money, then do both, but aviation will take all the money and time you can throw at it. It is a well-known adage that if you want to end up with a small fortune, then start off with a large one, and fly.
Doing both gliding and powered flying just accelerates the process.
Joined: Sep 2001
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Toronto
I took up gliders after soloing in power before I completed my PPL.
In retrospect, I feel it would have been more efficient to have completed my PPL before stepping into gliding as there are different mindsets involved, i.e certain power habits will get you into trouble in gliders while certain glider habits will get you into trouble in power.
But if you have the time and money, there's nothing wrong with visiting the local glider clubs to get acquainted and taking the odd glider flight.
Just remember that there's often a big price difference between intro rates and member rates. Some clubs offer a 5 flight membership or suchlike as a step before taking out a full membership.
In retrospect, I feel it would have been more efficient to have completed my PPL before stepping into gliding as there are different mindsets involved, i.e certain power habits will get you into trouble in gliders while certain glider habits will get you into trouble in power.
But if you have the time and money, there's nothing wrong with visiting the local glider clubs to get acquainted and taking the odd glider flight.
Just remember that there's often a big price difference between intro rates and member rates. Some clubs offer a 5 flight membership or suchlike as a step before taking out a full membership.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Poplar Grove, IL, USA
Some of what Gertrude the Wombat says is true, but overall I don't think it quite hits the mark. You will do a fair amount of short flights while training, but that is not the whole story. Not every landing ends up being a forced landing, often my landings are because I'm tired or need to use the little boys room.
Soaring can be cheap. Last Saturday for a $17 USD tow I flew my L33 around for 2.3 hours. That's cheap. Of course add in my hull insurance costs, monthly club dues, it is not quite as cheap as the $7.40/hour. But still not bad.
Soaring is very weather dependent. You can fly in all sorts of weather, but you need the good soaring weather to have those kind of flights. Maybe GTW has only experienced gliders in the wrong kind of weather. Maybe that's the norm in the UK. I don't know.
If flying was the language of man, soaring would be its poetry.
Some folks do big x-c flights in gliders. 50, 100, 1000km. Cross country is a challenge in a glider, not like pointing your propeller in some direction and droning away. If you fly for the challenge this is good.
I think RatherBeFlying has good advice, I would concentrate on power first, or at least pick one to concentrate on and stick with it. Some diehard glider guys think gliders first is the way to go, as Arclite01 says. And, if you are to end up like them, there is some advantage to starting in gliders. But I don't think it is a huge penalty in learning in power first, then going to gliders. Makes an easy transition to gliders, in the US it is a very easy transition to a glider rating. Takes longer to learn the art of soaring, in some respects a lifetime.
-- IFMU
Soaring can be cheap. Last Saturday for a $17 USD tow I flew my L33 around for 2.3 hours. That's cheap. Of course add in my hull insurance costs, monthly club dues, it is not quite as cheap as the $7.40/hour. But still not bad.
Soaring is very weather dependent. You can fly in all sorts of weather, but you need the good soaring weather to have those kind of flights. Maybe GTW has only experienced gliders in the wrong kind of weather. Maybe that's the norm in the UK. I don't know.
If flying was the language of man, soaring would be its poetry.
Some folks do big x-c flights in gliders. 50, 100, 1000km. Cross country is a challenge in a glider, not like pointing your propeller in some direction and droning away. If you fly for the challenge this is good.
I think RatherBeFlying has good advice, I would concentrate on power first, or at least pick one to concentrate on and stick with it. Some diehard glider guys think gliders first is the way to go, as Arclite01 says. And, if you are to end up like them, there is some advantage to starting in gliders. But I don't think it is a huge penalty in learning in power first, then going to gliders. Makes an easy transition to gliders, in the US it is a very easy transition to a glider rating. Takes longer to learn the art of soaring, in some respects a lifetime.
-- IFMU
Joined: May 2006
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From: Londonish
Couldn't agree more. For pure flying, gliding is far better IMHO, and the whole weekend, 10 minutes is a little unfair! Once you get the hang of it, and pick the days 3-5hr flights are quite normal, can travel decent distances, suprisingly quickly. And glider aeros are great!
On the other hand, spamcans have a certain convenience factor, and going places is somewhat easier.
But then I'm biassed - been gliding for 2 years, currently mid PPL.
On the other hand, spamcans have a certain convenience factor, and going places is somewhat easier.
But then I'm biassed - been gliding for 2 years, currently mid PPL.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Poplar Grove, IL, USA
While on topic, a couple of other glider notes:
You never have to worry about engine failure in a glider.
If you are a power pilot first, it opens up the opportunities to become a tow pilot for your glider club later, assuming you collect the right experience. Then if hanging at the glider club becomes your thing, there are lots of opportunities to fly. And, glider club members generally look on tow pilots with favor, even if they are of the sort that disdain all other forms of powered flight!
-- IFMU
You never have to worry about engine failure in a glider.
If you are a power pilot first, it opens up the opportunities to become a tow pilot for your glider club later, assuming you collect the right experience. Then if hanging at the glider club becomes your thing, there are lots of opportunities to fly. And, glider club members generally look on tow pilots with favor, even if they are of the sort that disdain all other forms of powered flight!
-- IFMU
Joined: Sep 2001
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Toronto
My soaring bill so far this year is about $2800 (club + national membership, glider block time, tows) for about 60 hours.
Renting a Citabria gets close to $200/hr these days in Canada.
I'll disagree with IFMU's
It can be very inconvenient if the towplane engine quits or the rope breaks, or the winch has a problem
Actually gliders are pretty much solar powered. When the lift quits, you'd better be close enough to the field or you will shortly be doing your very first outlanding like I did
Renting a Citabria gets close to $200/hr these days in Canada.
I'll disagree with IFMU's
You never have to worry about engine failure in a glider
Actually gliders are pretty much solar powered. When the lift quits, you'd better be close enough to the field or you will shortly be doing your very first outlanding like I did
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Blighty
I started gliding before power and all I can say is do both and enjoy. Gliding will improve your power flying, I'm not sure if it works the other way round however. You airmanship and handling skills will improve, and gliding is a far more socialbe occupation that power flying. Gliding takes up a lot of time. At your age, you probably have that time and will get the most out of it.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,290
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From: Poplar Grove, IL, USA
I'll disagree with IFMU's
You never have to worry about engine failure in a glider
Plus, when I tow, I've always got the glider in mind. If the PA25 engine quits, there are parts of the tow where I'll end up in the emergency field, but the glider will always make it back. I won't put them in a bad spot. I find that true of most tow pilots.
I can't comment on the winch launch, I've never had the opportunity. It seems sportier to me, I've seen a couple.
-- IFMU
Last edited by IFMU; 4th October 2007 at 02:24. Reason: added a detail
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From: Under the clag EGKA
I can't comment on the winch launch, I've never had the opportunity. It seems sportier to me, I've seen a couple.
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Job Centre
Well, Mrs Driver and I dumped our customary week self-catering for a (cheaper) week of gliding this year - Mrs D is ab initio and I'm IMC, so a bit diverse.
We averaged 7 flights a day each. Longest flight I had was just under the hour. Not a moment's inactivity for either of us the whole week.
We enjoyed this so much that I booked a day's one-to-one which gave me 13 flights, and we both booked a further week during August.
Plus points
VERY sociable - you actually get to TALK to a wide range of experienced people
Very good for you - lots of exercise and fresh air
Very good for your flying skills
Flying safe and close to other aircraft
Forced into explicit looking-out
Remembering what your feet are for
Every circuit is a practise for EFATO
Spin entry and recovery from surprisingly low heights
A different perspective on weather
Gliding is surprisingly technical these days - The current UK distance record stands at 1200 km in ten and a half hours, and the airframes make the average powered aircraft look like a product of Noah's workshop.
Self-launching - fold-away motors - solar power. Mark my words, in this greener world, we powered flyers need to keep an eye firmly on what's cooking in the gliding fraternity.
SD
We averaged 7 flights a day each. Longest flight I had was just under the hour. Not a moment's inactivity for either of us the whole week.
We enjoyed this so much that I booked a day's one-to-one which gave me 13 flights, and we both booked a further week during August.
Plus points
VERY sociable - you actually get to TALK to a wide range of experienced people
Very good for you - lots of exercise and fresh air
Very good for your flying skills
Flying safe and close to other aircraft
Forced into explicit looking-out
Remembering what your feet are for
Every circuit is a practise for EFATO
Spin entry and recovery from surprisingly low heights
A different perspective on weather
Gliding is surprisingly technical these days - The current UK distance record stands at 1200 km in ten and a half hours, and the airframes make the average powered aircraft look like a product of Noah's workshop.
Self-launching - fold-away motors - solar power. Mark my words, in this greener world, we powered flyers need to keep an eye firmly on what's cooking in the gliding fraternity.
SD
Last edited by sunday driver; 5th October 2007 at 12:44. Reason: Crappy formatting
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: UK
It depends what you want to achieve, how much time and money you have and why youwant to fly. If you have lots of money and very little time, stick with power flying. If you want a more sociable environment, where you are a member of a Club, rather than just using the airfield as a means to an end, then come glding. If you want to use aviation as a way of travelling from A to B then power flying is much, much, better. If you enjoy the challenge of using the weather conditions to help you with your flight and can cope with making changes to your plan every few minutes, go gliding. If you want to fly and achieve the buzz of keeping to a particular height, speed and heading +/- 2% by using instruments, then go power flying (but please keep a good lookout for the rest of us). If you fancy the idea of deadreckoning, constant heading changes, using lines of energy to help and not having to talk to ATC, then go gliding.
You'll also find that different gliding clubs operate in different ways too. If you go to a small club, run by members at weekends, the you'll sometimes spend much of your time helping out on the ground and perhaps not do much flying. The more professional Clubs (by which I mean they have a paid fulltime staff) offer a much beter Value for Time proposition (including bookable training).
Dependign upon where you live, go and check out the flying clubs and glidign clubs and see which gives the most buzz. f you have lots of free time, money and inclination then do both!
You'll also find that different gliding clubs operate in different ways too. If you go to a small club, run by members at weekends, the you'll sometimes spend much of your time helping out on the ground and perhaps not do much flying. The more professional Clubs (by which I mean they have a paid fulltime staff) offer a much beter Value for Time proposition (including bookable training).
Dependign upon where you live, go and check out the flying clubs and glidign clubs and see which gives the most buzz. f you have lots of free time, money and inclination then do both!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Kenya
Well money would not be a concern as a years membership is £40, launch fee is £4.50 and soaring fee is £0.10 for 10 minutes. The only concern i have is the time and if it will have any problems with power flying. Most people have said it helps but some say its better to stay with power flying.
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From: Twickenham, home of rugby
sheesh123,
One "concern" that I have noted with power flying after much gliding has been an occasional tendency to try to "rescue" a poor approach rather than simply go around.
But then flying a glider really makes you use the rudder pedals, which is of great benefit in a SEP.
PPL training gave me a heck of a lot more structured NAV, met. and R/T training than gliding ever did - and all these things are useful in gliding.
SD
One "concern" that I have noted with power flying after much gliding has been an occasional tendency to try to "rescue" a poor approach rather than simply go around.
But then flying a glider really makes you use the rudder pedals, which is of great benefit in a SEP.
PPL training gave me a heck of a lot more structured NAV, met. and R/T training than gliding ever did - and all these things are useful in gliding.
SD
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: South Norfolk, England
I started as a glider pilot and unless something horrible happens I'll go back to gliding when my kids are grown or when I retire. It is pure flying for flying's sake. Not to go anywhere, not to keep to time schedules ect ect .... it's ALL about flying .... priceless!!! 
I'll go back to gliding when my kids are grown or when I retire. It is pure flying for flying's sake. Not to go anywhere, not to keep to time schedules ect ect .... it's ALL about flying .... priceless!!!
