Would you put PPL on your CV??

[gcolyer]

I told you there will be an epaulette basher here!!

At the end of the day it is horses for courses. As a contractor I have been through more agencies than I care to shake a stick at. And I have only ever come across 1 that gave sound advice about CV's.

I have had 2 interviews where the interview got as far as qualifications and stopped at the PPL and became a chit chat about flying....I got both contracts.

All my other interviews just glossed over qualifications. And I have only ever once in 17 years been asked for proof of qualifications, and I have had many contracts that have asked for degree's but hired me instead based on experience.

There is absolutley no harm in putting it on your CV.

[S-Works]

You started contracting before you left school?

I like you already, you are hired......

[Whirlygig]

The harm is jealousy and perceived wealth. MOST people regard flying (especially helicopters) as being very expensive (without realising the sacrifices that may have been made) and hence there are not many people who want to recruit someone who is possibly more well-off than themselves.

Obviously, I come from a finance background and not IT, where attitudes may well be different, but I speak from experience!

Cheers

Whirls

[gcolyer]

I left school at 15 and 8 months and joined the Army...which in 1990 was the youngest age you could join. In November 1996 i left the army and started contracting.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

A CV sould be no more than 2 sides of neatly typed A4

Coo! Dinosaur age still alive and well, is it? - my "CV" has been a web site for at least a decade.

However as a person that owns a recruitment agency and one that does a considerable amount of recruiting for projects I have only one word... SADDO.

Yes, well, all you've done is add just one more reason to the many why I don't deal with business prevention agencies if I can possibly avoid it.

Agencies: Just Say No!

[S-Works]

Hmmm, you might actually have a point their Gertrude....

[Whirlygig]

Gertrude, all I can say is, is that you've never REALLY recruited accountants have you! Traditional methods ARE very much well alive and in practice. If MY CV was on a website, I'd never get a job!

Cheers

Whirls

[Gertrude the Wombat]

you've never REALLY recruited accountants have you!

No, just techies, let's be honest here!

[kiwi chick]

Anyway, back at uni now and into the easy life once again.

I think this might be why so many people go to Uni.

Why work?!

(ooh just realised I might have the wrong thread...)

[Lance Murdoch]

The short answer to the question is that some employers are interested in your hobbies and interests and others arent. Positions which need a rounded induividual are more likely to take into account yourr interests than ones which require only technical skill.

In my current job which does require a fairly rounded skill set, although not mentioned in interview, I got the impression that after starting the job that having a PPL was an advantage.

As a previous poster stated many people still think that flying is for the rich elite and mentioning that you have a PPL can cause some people to be jealous. Managers which have this attitude are not worth working for.

[kiwi chick]

Summed up best by my previous manager at the Police College, who was a Behavioural Psychologist.

The day I passed my CPL (A) he said to me:

"I associate a Commercial Pilot with someone who has integrity, intelligence, fortitude and commitment, not to mention common sense. And that is true for the person standing in front of me right now. Congratulations".

I didn't have the heart to tell him that most of us are filthly mongrels who swear and drink too much.

[FREDAcheck]

I don’t think there’s much harm in putting PPL on a CV provided it’s only one of several hobbies, and it doesn’t look like it dominates your life. The danger is appearing like a nerd. Jeremy Clarkson is not alone: any hobby that requires lots of specialist knowledge and persistence can look a bit nerdish to outsiders, especially if it’s also a bit exclusive (you can’t do it without a licence, and you have to jump through lots of hoops to get one). The “Biggles speak” used on the radio adds to the image.

I'll bet most of us have heard friends suggesting flying can be a bit nerdish. Unless of course:

• You've never asked your friends
• You never listen to your friends
• Your friends aren't honest
• All your friends are pilots
• You don't have any friends

Over and out.

[eharding]

Originally Posted by Bose-X

I have stayed quiet thus far....

However as a person that owns a recruitment agency and one that does a considerable amount of recruiting for projects I have only one word... SADDO.

What are you thinking, what next, I like to kill fluffy animals with a shot gun, I base jump, I like to boogy to acid music (or whatever they call it), I fly kites (I do actually kite surf...).

A PPL does nothing towards you recruitment prospects, putting it on your CV just makes you out as a nerd. I assume wearing gold bars on the epaulettes to the interview or a flying suit will help further?

Interesting. Having been on both sides of the fence dealing with recruitment agencies, I would say that that such agencies are far more deserving of gassing than any badger with a hacking cough....and that little glimpse into the mindset of a proprietor doesn't do anything to shift my opinion.

[S-Works]

I am not a proprietor, just an owner, don't have anything to do with the day to day running. It interferes with my social life.

I do have to agree with you though, they are totally shocking, I only bought this one as I was hacked off with the 20% margin they were making for doing squat all and wanted it instead!!

[Slopey]

Well, I've been on the board of a large recrutiment agency for the last 10 years, so here's my 2p

Writing a CV for agencies to punt about and applying for a position direct to the hiring company are two different things.

Companies who use agencies, by and large (certainly in our sector) have 4 or 5 (or more!) agencies responding to the same requirements - they are well versed in contract/staff hiring and the beleagured hiring manager wants someone with the relevant experience to do the job - everything else is secondary. If the candidate is a tool (personality or skills wise) they'll be quickly bumped and replaced. Highly competitive, high speed - get the guy on who's CV says the right thing.

Now, if you're applying to a company directly (usually a smaller company who doesn't want to pay agency markups or finders fees), then that's a different consideration.

Agency CVs are no-nonsense - they'll edit your CV to remove all the guff, highlight the relevant quals and experience for ease of use by the client, and reformat it into a standard format (at least we do anyway). Goodbye interests etc - if the client thinks these are important, it's an interview question. To be honest - the main ones are: do you play golf, which football team do you support, and who do you know on this project. Job done.

Personal CVs for smaller companies who are looking for someone to join the team rather than a fill the slot for a contractor or staffie, should (in my opinion) list interests - and a PPL on it won't do you any harm. By and large, the CV review is done by the manager who doesn't have much hiring or agency experience, and recruits on "do they look right" as opposed to "tick the boxes, quick check to make sure you're not a weirdo, and lets screw you on the rate".

Ultimately - it's usually unlikely an agency will even read your CV before it's reformatted for submission. It's virtually always converted to txt or RTF if you've given it in some odd format - and chucked in their CV database for word searching. You match the words, you come up on the recruiter's screen - that's the bread and butter. And NOBODY searches for PPL.

So hell - put it on. The Agency will remove it and any other crap if it's irrelevant, but always have something on there for non agency hiring where it'll make you at least stand out a bit.

[Wessex Boy]

Slopey, That's all well in good in the great morass where people are just looking for skilled bums on seats, but once you get to a more senior level the (good) agencies start to treat you as an individual again, and the roles that you are going for have a greater emphasis on the soft skills and personality.
I balance the nerdiness of the PPL on my CV with the mention of my awfully bad electric guitar playing, interviewers will normally pick up and discuss at least one of them!

[Slopey]

Exactly right.

Executive Search is entirely different from the day to day agency bums on seats stuff. Which is why I'd say stick it on anyway.

Once you get above a certain organisational level, agency recruitment methodology totally changes - mostly because of the much larger finders fee!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Agency CVs are no-nonsense - they'll edit your CV to remove all the guff, highlight the relevant quals and experience for ease of use by the client, and reformat it into a standard format (at least we do anyway)

... thereby throwing away the formatting that is a deliberate part of your sales pitch ("yes I can produce decent documentation") and more often than not adding spelling and grammatical errors that weren't in your original, thus ensuring that the recruiter bins your CV unread.

Business prevention agencies: Just Say No.

(When hiring I routinely bin CVs with spelling errors. Where these have obviously been reformatted by the agency - whom you would expect to correct any errors in the original, not add new ones of their own! - I have sometimes felt a fleeting sympathy for the applicant. But only fleeting, because if they were any good they wouldn't have chosen an agent who was going to mangle their CV.)

[Slopey]

Well, at least my lot ensure the spelling is correct - all QA'd up and all that
There are an awful lot of bad agencies out there, but there are some good ones too

And there's a reason we reformat them - the clients want them that way believe it or not - they complain when they've been sent unformatted ones (which is just as well as it means one of our recruiters has been bypassing the quality procedures!).

[Gertrude the Wombat]

And there's a reason we reformat them - the clients want them that way believe it or not

I don't. I want to see the candidate's own work - that tells me something, whereas the professionally produced CV (with or without spelling errors) tells me much less about the candidate; it might tell me something about the agency, but I'm not considering employing them.