How do civilan pilots view military pilots
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I am not in a twist about anything. Merely remarking that I know very well how the military mind works and am perfectly capable of interpreting when banter is being used to demean. Same as I take no offence being referred to as a blunty, after all without us the cone heads would not have had any mounts to show off in......
As I pointed out I have the greatest of respect for military pilots, I know how tough is it to get to front line. I merely pointing out that the average military pilot is detached from reality by and large and assuming that a GA pilot by nature is automatically less current and under trained is very arrogant/naive.
So going back to my original comment............ Lets all show a bit of respect for each other.
As I pointed out I have the greatest of respect for military pilots, I know how tough is it to get to front line. I merely pointing out that the average military pilot is detached from reality by and large and assuming that a GA pilot by nature is automatically less current and under trained is very arrogant/naive.
So going back to my original comment............ Lets all show a bit of respect for each other.
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Only someone who's ego had been damaged would continue to argue on about how they had no ego to damage. 
I have already said I have the utmost respect for the mil. I think enough has been said now on this subject.
I have already said I have the utmost respect for the mil. I think enough has been said now on this subject.
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They have my respect completley great bunch of guys the ones I know. I was speaking to a tornado pilot after he'd landed at Newcastle with engine trouble and we got into what I wanted to do, I said I wanted to join the airlines and he was very quick to reply with "you wana be a bus driver then?" lol I've always enjoyed the banter between different types of pilots am I the only one ? theres always been that friendly rivalry and I love it, helicopter pilots - fixed wing , frieght dogs - airline pilots, civilian and military pilots and so on its brilliant.
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Tbh imo any type of aviator from C152 pilots to Jaguar pilots to 747 pilots should be respected on the same level purely because they have achived something massive, earning their wings, this is something that not many people do. I mean ... look at the amount of PPL holders in the UK atm I think its roughly 25,000 (please correct me if I'm wrong) thats not alot, any pilot in the world has achieved masses and that should all be respected.
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I got chopped from flying even though I consistently scored the highest on my crewman course due to my attitude and behaviour, I was young and had no sense.
There were 5 of us and there were 2 x Chinook Postings, 2 x Puma and 1 x Wessex at Aldegrove for in-theatre training. I was allocated to Aldegrove and started my Ireland-specific training but 2 days before graduation I was hauled in front of the Crewman Leader and told that even if I passed the Final Handling Test, he couldn't pass me because of my 'Personal Qualities'.
I was put on review, hated my new instructor, and my confidence & ability disappeared, I was chopped and spent 3 months at Brampton in Support Command PhysEd before leaving.
My confidence was so dented I also never flew GA again until a family near-tragedy last year woke me up and I decided to start again, 17 years on.
My point is, that to succeed as a Military Flyer you need the ability, discipline, character and attitude, otherwise you are discovered and weeded out.
There were 5 of us and there were 2 x Chinook Postings, 2 x Puma and 1 x Wessex at Aldegrove for in-theatre training. I was allocated to Aldegrove and started my Ireland-specific training but 2 days before graduation I was hauled in front of the Crewman Leader and told that even if I passed the Final Handling Test, he couldn't pass me because of my 'Personal Qualities'.
I was put on review, hated my new instructor, and my confidence & ability disappeared, I was chopped and spent 3 months at Brampton in Support Command PhysEd before leaving.
My confidence was so dented I also never flew GA again until a family near-tragedy last year woke me up and I decided to start again, 17 years on.
My point is, that to succeed as a Military Flyer you need the ability, discipline, character and attitude, otherwise you are discovered and weeded out.
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GeorgEGNT ...its just a shame Newcastle handling agents dont always treat every pilot on an equal footing and with respect especially if they have Multi's flying in and you are in a mesely C152. But there still quick to take your money for a service which to be frank dosent justify the fee.
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XL319 ... Completley agree with you PA28 holding at foxtrot ready for departure, you literally won't go until there zone is completley empty its a disgrace I think. I once orbited for 25 mins whilst 6 aircraft took off (backtracking down to 25 as taxiway D was being resurfaced) and 4 aircraft landed. This resulted in me being 20 mins over my hour thus paying £44 extra and they still took my £18 off me for that. They even have the cheek sometimes to say over the radio "Golf India Fox very sorry for your wait we'll get you in as soon as we can" it just irritates me lol especially when I'm orbiting a mile or 2 away and could be landed and vacated in 2/3 mins MAX and the nearest airline is on base 10 miles away.
Just looked at this thread for the first time and there's been a bit of creep. Seems to have slewed into the 'Who's the better pilot' type of arguement which is not what the original question was.
As someone who was a military pilot and QFI, instructed at a flying club and is now an airline pilot (and used to fly rubber dog sh!t out of Hong Kong. It's not a bad job - honest!), I can state that reaction to military pilots from civilian ones covers the whole spectrum, from levels of genuine interest, through ambivalence to general hostility - probably resulting from jealousy. This is what a psycologist would probably expect due to a whole range of factors, the main one being personalities.
From my experience, pilots tend to have personalities!
As someone who was a military pilot and QFI, instructed at a flying club and is now an airline pilot (and used to fly rubber dog sh!t out of Hong Kong. It's not a bad job - honest!), I can state that reaction to military pilots from civilian ones covers the whole spectrum, from levels of genuine interest, through ambivalence to general hostility - probably resulting from jealousy. This is what a psycologist would probably expect due to a whole range of factors, the main one being personalities.
From my experience, pilots tend to have personalities!
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This is what a psycologist would probably expect due to a whole range of factors, the main one being personalities.
I would have thought that experience would be just as strong a driver as personality.
My experience with military pilots has been good, the ones I have met have been courteous, professional in attitude and socially skilled.
However, if I had met arrogant ones.....
I would have thought that experience would be just as strong a driver as personality.
My experience with military pilots has been good, the ones I have met have been courteous, professional in attitude and socially skilled.
However, if I had met arrogant ones.....
When, like Dan, I used to fly military 4 jets as well as instructing on GA Puddlejumpers, I often noticed how differently I was treated by mil ATC when flying each type.
Being snapped at by some vinegar-bitch and told not to enter 'her' MATZ in a PA28 as it was 'very busy' with AEF and UAS flying was absurd - when I later flew an ILS there in a VC10, there was no such problem.....
The 5 mile MATZ is an anachronism. If Exeter and Humberside airports can survive without anything more than an ATZ, why on earth do places like Benson (which do NOT operate fast aircraft) need them?
Being snapped at by some vinegar-bitch and told not to enter 'her' MATZ in a PA28 as it was 'very busy' with AEF and UAS flying was absurd - when I later flew an ILS there in a VC10, there was no such problem.....
The 5 mile MATZ is an anachronism. If Exeter and Humberside airports can survive without anything more than an ATZ, why on earth do places like Benson (which do NOT operate fast aircraft) need them?
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Originally Posted by BEagle
Being snapped at by some vinegar-bitch and told not to enter 'her' MATZ in a PA28 as it was 'very busy' with AEF and UAS flying was absurd - when I later flew an ILS there in a VC10, there was no such problem.....
And as I said above, the MATZ is a pointless and dangerous thing because mil controllers think it's CAS and act accordingly, and civilians think it doesn't matter because it's not CAS. I think it's an accident waiting to happen, though I don't suppose there have been any actual accidents.
Tim
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civilians think it doesn't matter because it's not CAS 
I had it drummed into me during PPL training that the point of a MATZ was to accomodate military aircraft and high energy manouevres - there be dragons.
Not controlled airspace - but treat with respect and care.
I really hope that other civvy pilots have the same view.
I had it drummed into me during PPL training that the point of a MATZ was to accomodate military aircraft and high energy manouevres - there be dragons.
Not controlled airspace - but treat with respect and care.
I really hope that other civvy pilots have the same view.
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I hope so too, but operating from inside one has taught me otherwise. We frequently get people bimbling through regardless. Of course, the sort of pilot who is interested enough in the intellectual side to post and read here probably does understand.
I could at this point blame GPS... some units (including my Lowrance) don't have MATZ at all, as CAS or otherwise...
Tim
I could at this point blame GPS... some units (including my Lowrance) don't have MATZ at all, as CAS or otherwise...
Tim
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You COULD blame GPS, but that would be a bit daft as all MATZ are marked on CAA charts, so no excuse! I doubt it would stand up in court!
"But my GPS didn't tell me......"
"But my GPS didn't tell me......"
Aye, they have been known to have trouble in tight places.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavale...disaster_(1998)
But perhaps we shouldn't generalise.
(PS the opening posts of this thread were quite amusing! Glad to have found it!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavale...disaster_(1998)
But perhaps we shouldn't generalise.
(PS the opening posts of this thread were quite amusing! Glad to have found it!)
Military flying is the best there is. Though there is a lot of fun to be had on the civilian side if you're prepared to step a little out of the comfort zone.
Mate of mine from the same APC who stayed in joined me to help fly my Maule from Canada to the UK.
He had previously completed two tours in AFG and one in Iraq.
As we coasted out from Nunavut he came out with the reassuring comment: "this is undoubtedly the most dangerous thing I have ever done".
So, proof, you can have more fun in GA than in the military.
Mate of mine from the same APC who stayed in joined me to help fly my Maule from Canada to the UK.
He had previously completed two tours in AFG and one in Iraq.
As we coasted out from Nunavut he came out with the reassuring comment: "this is undoubtedly the most dangerous thing I have ever done".
So, proof, you can have more fun in GA than in the military.
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How are they viewed?
Much the same way as we all view 'bankers'.
But to be fair the training they receive has no equal and the selection process generally provides the best candidates.
When they enter the civilian airlines it can take a while for the single seaters to get used to a new world of commercial reality but there is no better resource of well trained pilots.
And no, I'm not ex military despite the username.
But to be fair the training they receive has no equal and the selection process generally provides the best candidates.
When they enter the civilian airlines it can take a while for the single seaters to get used to a new world of commercial reality but there is no better resource of well trained pilots.
And no, I'm not ex military despite the username.
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- I have seen that they can all fly very well. They are well selected and properly trained.
- They understand the importance of appropriate planning; difficult conditions = more planning, simple equals close to bugger all.
- They are generally a pragmatic bunch.
- The older generation of single-seat fast jet pilots have a high proportional of arseholes amongst their numbers. Still many good guys though.
- The older generation of multi-crew pilots are very easy to get on with.
- Modern fast jet pilots are team players and are also easy to get on with.