Learning to fly, only at weekends? (+ first post)

[Dysonsphere]

I was as well doing 1 lesson a week for about a year, half of them got cancelled due to for circuits it needs to be near perfect.

If a lesson is cancelled use it wisely and revise for your airlaw and other 5 exams. Alternative stick with it and as your self employeed be generious on your time, maybe when a good week of weather is in sight try to book as much flying as possible, do it after work ect??

Thats odd my instructer used the poor weather days for circuits as it was good practice and the vis was too crap to go outside the circuit.

[foxmoth]

Auch, after reading these posts i maybe switch from 1x 2 hours to 2x 1 hour!! i guess my flying instructor won't like that!!!

If you have a decent instructor he should have no problem with this - 2 hours straight is not only difficult for the student to cope with, but most instructors will start to lose the edge after an hour without a break unless it is a fairly relaxed exercise such as a long x-country.

[sternone]

If you have a decent instructor he should have no problem with this

He's a great guy, but he does it for the money ...

[flyboy_33]

Adam,
When I first started I had to work a month before I had enough for 1x 1 hour lesson. but every weekend I was down at the flight school just talking to other pilots. Back seating for the joy of being inside the aircraft if I was allowed (I was only fifteen when I started) and washing aircraft whenever I could. Reward was one circuit per aircraft washed. fleet of three aircraft.

What I am trying to get at is that hang in there yes it will take some time but it is worth every cancellation I have had due to wx or instructors being F*(*its And I recommend along with most other replies that 2 x 1 hour lessons in a day is betrter then 1x 2 hour lesson. That break for a drink/lunch and bathroom is ver much needed. I love stalling but 2 hours of stalling would throw most poeples stomachs. Cheers and good luck with your training

[Whirlybird]

Thats odd my instructer used the poor weather days for circuits as it was good practice and the vis was too crap to go outside the circuit.

No, it's not odd. You can do circuits when the VISIBILITY isn't good enough for upper air work and navigation. But if the wind is too strong or in the wrong direction, that's not good, at least in the beginning. No, the weather doesn't have to be perfect for circuits, but it can sometimes feel like it to the student, if you've hit a patch of windy, gusty days with heavy showers.

He's a great guy, but he does it for the money

We all do it for the money, up to a point; all instructors have to eat. But the student's needs should come first. If an instructor prefers two-hour slots because he makes more money that way, not because it's best for the student, then he shouldn't be doing that job. And if you do have an instructor like that, I don't care how great a guy he is - get a new instructor. You can always go out for a drink with the "great guy", but don't fly with him. I wasted a lot of money in the early days flying with a really great guy, until I finally learned enough to decide to change instructors.

[sternone]

I don't care how great a guy he is - get a new instructor.

Tell me, how should a student pilot with low hours judge an instructor ? When does he know he has to change or he can get a better one ?

[modelman]

Time for instructor change.

I changed mine after 7 hours.Deciding factor was that we were doing the same exercises every time,FI was doing all the flying and I wasn't learning anything.I don't think I am particularly thick so I tried another school.
What a revelation-great groundschool,very hands on (for me)etc.
PPL gained very quickly.

MM

[maxdrypower]

Its once again all the same problems that just about everyone else has been through and by hook or by crook overcome . At the end of the day you are paying handsomely to be taught to fly , not to pay someones wage , watch them fly an aircraft or put up with someone whose personality is not condusive to learning. This is not always to anyones detriment its just the way people are , some people do not get on . I had a flight with an instrucor once who told me everytime I asked a question , that I was to speak when I was spoken to it was called cockpit discipline , I immediately asked for a new instructor was told there wasnt one so ravenair became 3000 quid richer and I had a ball with instructors I got on with who constantly took the piss , not for everyone but thats my kinda teacher. I subsequently found out that just about everyone at the airfield thought this guy was a cxxk . You cant choose your relatives, but you can choose your friends and your instructors. Learning to fly should not only be challenging but it should be fun and every hour no matter how hard should be enjoyed to the full , if the instructor is hindering this then get another ,
Thats my input anyway and my honest opinion

[Whirlybird]

Tell me, how should a student pilot with low hours judge an instructor ? When does he know he has to change or he can get a better one ?

It's difficult. What's been suggested already is good - try an hour with someone else, and see how you get on. But here are a few pointers...

1) Do you get briefings before new exercises? Recently I talked to someone who'd done quite a lot of the course, and almost never had a single briefing. You should be getting some, even if not before every lesson.

2) Does your instructor appear to care more about whether the flying conditions are right for you, than whether he's making any money. If he/she wants to fly no matter what the conditions, be careful. It may be good practice for you to learn to fly in marginal conditions, but it may not.

3) Is he/she avaialble when you want to ask questions. The person I talked of in Point 1 said he asked a couple of simple questions...and the instructor turned round and charged him £50 for ground school!!!!! If you want a ground school course, fine, but charging for a couple of questions, NO!!!!!

4) Do you get on with him/her, and do you appear to be making progress? Students often tend to blame themselves if they're not making progress, but another instructor may be better for you, even if there's nothing wrong per se with the one you've got. Worth trying someone else to see.

5) If you're worried about what your instructor will think if you fly with someone else, tell them the truth, that you just want to get another point of view. And if they get upset about it....well, I'd be wary of someone like that. It's YOUR money and YOUR flying and YOUR choice.

Hope that helps a little.

[sternone]

Thanks for all your great replies... i guess i'm not doing to bad with my instructor, what do you think seeing answering these questions:

1) Do you get briefings before new exercises? Recently I talked to someone who'd done quite a lot of the course, and almost never had a single briefing. You should be getting some, even if not before every lesson.

No! at that annoys me alot!! Next lesson i will ask him to brief me what we are going to do, i also found that he was talking about some other student, like: we did last time this and that while that was not true at all. I had a few times he said to me: i didn't learnd you like that! but it was the first time i heard/saw that move

2) Does your instructor appear to care more about whether the flying conditions are right for you, than whether he's making any money. If he/she wants to fly no matter what the conditions, be careful. It may be good practice for you to learn to fly in marginal conditions, but it may not.

I must admid he flies with me when other people cancel their reservations, but i don't mind. i trust him to put me safely down and it gives me some trust in myself also landing with 15kts crosswinds, so i do not mind that part...

3) Is he/she avaialble when you want to ask questions. The person I talked of in Point 1 said he asked a couple of simple questions...and the instructor turned round and charged him £50 for ground school!!!!! If you want a ground school course, fine, but charging for a couple of questions, NO!!!!!

Yes, i can ask him questions, most of the time we end up having a drink in the bar (if he does not has another student directly after) and i can ask whatever i wan't

4) Do you get on with him/her, and do you appear to be making progress? Students often tend to blame themselves if they're not making progress, but another instructor may be better for you, even if there's nothing wrong per se with the one you've got. Worth trying someone else to see.

one time i did not flew for a few weeks and he told me that i will be having forgetting everything and start again from zero, he did alot alot of exercises but believe it or not, flying went very very well and he said afterward: i told you you would had to start again from zero hahah, i did not comment on that because i think he was a little pissed of the non-flying weeks..

5) If you're worried about what your instructor will think if you fly with someone else, tell them the truth, that you just want to get another point of view. And if they get upset about it....well, I'd be wary of someone like that. It's YOUR money and YOUR flying and YOUR choice.

I already told him about another club, what he tought about them, and he started laughing that they will just do everything to get the most money out of my pockets, at that moment i knew he was taking advantidge of me hahaha

at the end i think i could learn to fly faster with a more honest instructor, but mine i find is not to bad.. once the engine is running and his minutes start counting he's not a bad guy, but he's doing very fast pre-flight inspection just to get the minutes running ASAP.. that's a shame

[foxmoth]

On those answers I think you should be trying someone else, yes there are good points, but no briefings and 2 hour lessons , also, flying in poor wx is OK on the odd occasion but it certainly should not be the norm, sounds to me like he is the one doing everything to take the money from your pocket.

[maxdrypower]

Yeh find someone better , many reasons but you've identified the main points already , In the main , to pass a FI course you have to give detailed briefings on exercises , I fail to see how you can effectively carry out an exercise that hasnt been briefed. If you are landing in 15 kt crosswinds you are probably not in compliance with your schools flying order book , you maybe but it would be worth checking . 15kts (if it is all Xwind) is the limit for most light aircraft with ppls at the helm not to mention students . Good experience but it could also be detrimental if you get it wrong. A lot of instructors are fiercely territorial about their schools , as are a lot of students . However most have never worked or studied elsewhere , you must go where you feel comfortable and happy , as I said above and seconded by Whirly its your flying , choice and money . I personally for many reasons have been at four flying schools some good some not so good but I found one to suit me . And thats what you should do , even if it means looking a bit further afield . Its actually quite incredible when you sit soemtimes in a clubhouse or read on a forum people saying they hated their flying training and were glad to finish it to get rid of their instructor , mmmmmmm go with your instincts , if your not happy change . Even in the raf when they are paying you if your not happy with your instructor they will swap .
Bite the bullet and change

[Whirlybird]

sternone,
I agree with everyone else - change your instructor (and maybe your school) now!

I had an early instructor who sounds much like yours. He was always mixing me up with other people. Now, as an instructor myself, I know how difficult it can be to remember the stage everyone is at, if you have a lot of students. But in that case you take lots of student notes, get in early, and read them. Treating everyone as an individual and knowing what stage they're at is crucial!!!

You should get briefings. Missing them occasionally if things are running later can happen. But if you're really not getting them most of the time then you're being shortchanged, and you're not learning what you really need to know. There's far, far more to flying than just manipulating the controls.

You should not be landing in 15kt crosswinds unless you're at the stage of learning crosswind landings, and 15kts is a lot. I don't care whether you mind or not; you shouldn't be doing it.

Running down other flying schools is unprofessional unless they're really dangerous or something similar.

As Gemma said, you should be doing your own pre-flight inspections; this is an extremely important part of flying training.

I don't normally criticise my fellow instructors; it's a hard job and none of us are perfect. But if what you're saying is true, this chap is not good for you...or for anyone. Get someone else. Your early training is the most important part of your flying. Habits made now will stay with you forever. Things missed out could be dangerous later on. And you don't know what and how much you don't know, and what's being missed out.

I had a crap instructor early on - an hourbuilder who couldn't wait to get an airline job, and who thought because his pay was poor then he could do the job badly too. I stayed with him because I was loathe to change; you kind of get locked into being with one person, and think it'll be OK, and you don't mind, and all that kind of thing. It had repercussions that affected me for years, and probably still do. I wish I'd walked out on him the first time the very slightest doubt occurred - but I didn't know then what I know now, I had no-one to turn to for advice...and I didn't have PPRuNe. You do! You owe it to yourself.

[motherbird]

Any point in half hour lessons?

I was also advised that October \ November was best time for flying in UK

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Any point in half hour lessons?

There's no point in booking any half hour lessons - you'll spend fifteen minutes taxiing and fifteen minutes trying to get back to where you were last lesson, and ... er that's it.

But you certainly learn something from the lessons that end up being abandoned unexpectedly after half an hour, whether from weather or the aeroplane breaking. (Or simply the student changing their mind and realising that they really should have gone to the loo before the lesson - it's not happened to me, but it must have happened to somebody!)

[DBisDogOne]

Maxdry & Whirly are spot on, if you aren't completely happy with your FI, request another,if they won't play, -as an Irish mate of mine put it- take both your ass and your money elsewhere. I had a crappy instructor at first in the US, had no desire, ability or enthusiasm to teach, preferred to talk about crap such as his gun collection as if I a) Cared & b) Was interested. I understand the desire to hour-build for an airline driver job, but not at my expense (time & money) but to do it badly with obvious dis-interest is not on, he could at least make the effort and pretended to care. As the late great comedian Bill Hicks would have said "Let me plaster on the fake smile and plough though this !!!! once more time".

As we all know from experience, some people are natural teachers, some, however clever and gifted, just aren't, I've seen all types at school, college, university etc. I too prefer one who has a sense of humour, hopefully as odd as mine, in my case I got the right one and we proceeded to take the piss and verbally abuse each other at every opportunity (being an engineer by trade, this is natural to me), I learnt far more, far better, far quicker and feel I'm a better & safer pilot for it! What's more, I still remember it.

On the subject of lesson length, I wouldn't go much over an hour unless it's X/C, you'll start to get tired and start going backwards, wasting your time and money. Remember when you learned to drive, how tiring was an hour's lesson, now an hour's drive is nothing, a natural, normal thing, it's what you get used to. At the training stage, it's better to fly a little and often I found, although easier said than done with our WX!!!!

[Shunter]

When I was a student I got so hacked off with the weather I used to book 2 lessons per day (Sat and Sun); 1 at 9am, the other at say 1pm. This meant I got to fly once a week around 75% of the time, twice a week around 50% of the time, and four times a week around 25% of the time. From start to finish took me just over 3 months.

[sternone]

I agree with everyone else - change your instructor (and maybe your school) now!

You people's responses scares me off!! I have booked a meeting in the flying club he commented on, (i can do my IR also there) and if i choose to stay with him i will demand to:

* give me a pre-briefing what we are going to do
* tells me what i should learn for the next lessons
* do the complete preflight inspections myself at my pace and COMPLETE
* and book 1 hour trainings instead of 2 (when you people say 1 hour, is that 1 hour actual flight or 1 hour slot including getting plane out of hangar, fueling, taxing and vice versa ?)

Thanks!!

[maxdrypower]

And that Gemma is how it should be , sounds like you got a good un . Stern she is right , If your asking these questions then your answering your ultimate question yourself

[Whirlybird]

sternone,

You can't 'demand' that this so-called instructor give you a briefing. Either he's doing it, or he's cutting corners. How are you going to know whether the 3-minute briefing he then gives you is what a good instructor - like Gemma's - would have given you or not?

A one hour lesson is always one hour's flying...though schools do vary as to exactly when they start timing. There should be extra time for briefing and the beginning and debriefing at the end. Some schools book one hour lesson in every two hours. Others book one hour in every hour and a half, and then it's a real headache for the instructor to get briefings done, but it's not impossible. That's what I meant when I said in an earlier post that they occasionally get skipped or skimped....and it's not always the instructor's fault. But if that's happening all the time, either the instructor or the school is taking you for a ride, and you need to go elsewhere.