Learning to fly, only at weekends? (+ first post)
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
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From: Amsterdam
At the club where I fly, you book the (freelance) instructors in two-hour blocks, regardless of whether you do groundschool, flying, briefings or whatever, and you book the aircraft, yourself, separately. It's up to you (with a little help from the instructor) to make the most of those two hours. If you make sure the plane is preflighted, fueled up and ready to go, with a flight plan submitted on the top of the hour, you can squeeze in an hour and a half of flight time into that two hour block easily. If you need the instructor to hold your hand while checking the plane and submitting the flightplan, you're going to fly less than an hour total.
It's quite common for instructors to have two two-hours blocks booked in the morning, half an hour lunch break, and then another two two-hour blocks in the afternoon. If you are further along in your training and need a three-hour block or a full day (for a X-C for instance) then that's negotiable anyway under the same conditions. Same if you only need a one-hour block for half-an-hour checkout on a new plane.
Strange as this may sound, but I think it's a fair system. The instructor gets paid for his time, regardless of whether he's flying, briefing or doing ground school. And this way you know there is time for a proper briefing - after all, you paid for it.
And obviously instructors all around the globe will generally set their prices so that at the end of a days flying+briefing, they take home a decent paycheck. If they only get paid for the flying hours and the briefings hours are for free, well, then the flying hours are going to be more expensive.
It's quite common for instructors to have two two-hours blocks booked in the morning, half an hour lunch break, and then another two two-hour blocks in the afternoon. If you are further along in your training and need a three-hour block or a full day (for a X-C for instance) then that's negotiable anyway under the same conditions. Same if you only need a one-hour block for half-an-hour checkout on a new plane.
Strange as this may sound, but I think it's a fair system. The instructor gets paid for his time, regardless of whether he's flying, briefing or doing ground school. And this way you know there is time for a proper briefing - after all, you paid for it.
And obviously instructors all around the globe will generally set their prices so that at the end of a days flying+briefing, they take home a decent paycheck. If they only get paid for the flying hours and the briefings hours are for free, well, then the flying hours are going to be more expensive.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 647
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From: Brussels - Twin Comanche PA39 - KA C90B
and it's not always the instructor's fault. But if that's happening all the time, either the instructor or the school is taking you for a ride, and you need to go elsewhere.
Anyways friday afternoon i go listen to the other club, let me see what i get there, do you have any specific questions i should ask or things i should look out for ? The other club has brand new piper warriors with glass cockpits (they also instruct the IR in it) i ofcorse expect a big difference in price but i don't care that much about that part
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
From: Brussels - Twin Comanche PA39 - KA C90B
It won't work out cheaply for you if you are forever covering the same exercises or not progressing.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 831
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From: North of South
Sternone , with the fear of starting a whole new thread here , be cautious again , lol sorry , I currently fly a glass cockpit cessna . Amazing bit of kit beyond belief really what they get a simple light single to do . However though good they are they are exactly that , glass , not steam driven . Yes it will cost you more , probably considerably more , they are also four seaters again adding to the cost .IMHO it is better to get a ppl with steam driven aircraft then convert over. It has to be taken into account that when you get to the technical exam you will be examined on steam driven gyro pressure etc etc instruments , the glass cockpit does not have these . it works in a completely different black box type of way . You for example during cruise checks do not align the DI and compass because its done automatically by the systems .That is just one example . If you were to train solely on the g1000 you would have to fork out at a later date to train on and use analogue aircraft as they do work in completely different ways . Dont get me wrong the information represented is the same it is not what you will be examined on in the exams ,. Sorry if that seems a little finickity but it might be something you want to consider. Train on a nice terrahawk or 152 then move up when qualified
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
From: Brussels - Twin Comanche PA39 - KA C90B
Oh boy, i just came back from a visit to the flight school, i think i have mixed up 2 things in the past.
You have:
* a flight club
* a flight school
I now know that these are 2 completely different things, the club i'm in now is just a club, not a school! I have had a very good chat with the person of that school, she explained me EVERYTHING in 2 hours and all the issues we talked about here in the forum they had them covered!! I was able to pick a folder (choose myself) were all the students files were sitting, were i was able to see that after each flight they make a full report and give debriefing and prebriefing!! It is unbelievalble how well they were organized, how can i ever go back to my current flight club ? I just can't wait to fly with this flight school!!
They have distance learning with email, voice and private support, i can fly from very early 7 o clock, and they switch teachers all the time, they have such a good reporting system per student that each teacher can jump in and continue your lessons! ( i found that a good idea, what do you think about that ?) so it could be you end up with more than 20 teachers while you learn.
Prices are about 30% higher than my old club, BUT she told me that 2 hours lessons are only 1 hour flight, and i only need to pay the time the engine runs, the rest is all briefings, briefings and briefings. She also said i will need to prepare the next lesson at home each time!! Amazingly!!
Luckely my current PPL hours count for the 150 hours i need before i can start my IR training after i get my PPL!
I was reallly surprised by the professionalism, but maybe it's becasue they also train commercial pilots there ? She said they make no difference in system, instructors or accurrucy between PPL's and CPL's students.
I still have around 30 landings/takeoffs left on my current club, but she told me that is no problem, she told me they would be happy to parctice touch and goes on the old club!! haha, after all, im still a member there and i have already payed for it. I hope they will allow me doing circuits with another clubs bird and teacher...
I wanna thank you guys here for letting me know that i wasn't having the perfect teacher after all.. to bad for him but i will be happy to sack him on monday! But hey, he remains a great guy.. but not a teacher for me... I wanna learn this the best way...
You have:
* a flight club
* a flight school
I now know that these are 2 completely different things, the club i'm in now is just a club, not a school! I have had a very good chat with the person of that school, she explained me EVERYTHING in 2 hours and all the issues we talked about here in the forum they had them covered!! I was able to pick a folder (choose myself) were all the students files were sitting, were i was able to see that after each flight they make a full report and give debriefing and prebriefing!! It is unbelievalble how well they were organized, how can i ever go back to my current flight club ? I just can't wait to fly with this flight school!!
They have distance learning with email, voice and private support, i can fly from very early 7 o clock, and they switch teachers all the time, they have such a good reporting system per student that each teacher can jump in and continue your lessons! ( i found that a good idea, what do you think about that ?) so it could be you end up with more than 20 teachers while you learn.
Prices are about 30% higher than my old club, BUT she told me that 2 hours lessons are only 1 hour flight, and i only need to pay the time the engine runs, the rest is all briefings, briefings and briefings. She also said i will need to prepare the next lesson at home each time!! Amazingly!!
Luckely my current PPL hours count for the 150 hours i need before i can start my IR training after i get my PPL!
I was reallly surprised by the professionalism, but maybe it's becasue they also train commercial pilots there ? She said they make no difference in system, instructors or accurrucy between PPL's and CPL's students.
I still have around 30 landings/takeoffs left on my current club, but she told me that is no problem, she told me they would be happy to parctice touch and goes on the old club!! haha, after all, im still a member there and i have already payed for it. I hope they will allow me doing circuits with another clubs bird and teacher...
I wanna thank you guys here for letting me know that i wasn't having the perfect teacher after all.. to bad for him but i will be happy to sack him on monday! But hey, he remains a great guy.. but not a teacher for me... I wanna learn this the best way...
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Best of luck, but get this straight....
There are not (a) flying clubs, and (b) flying schools)
but
(a) GOOD flying clubs and schools, and
(b) BAD flying clubs and schools.
This new one is the way all of them should be.
Hve fun.
There are not (a) flying clubs, and (b) flying schools)
but
(a) GOOD flying clubs and schools, and
(b) BAD flying clubs and schools.
This new one is the way all of them should be.
Hve fun.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: Oop North, UK
In general it is best not to be swapping instructors all the time, but with a good records system and standardisation as you seem to have here it is not a problem, enjoy the rest of your training, glad to see you seem to have sorted it.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Eastbourne
I've taken the advice of some of you and booked 2 lessons next weekend - one Saturday and one Sunday. Hopefully I'll get at least one hour of flying in if the weather is kind to me.
I actually managed to go up today despite the weather. Landing was interesting though... we (ok the instructor
) ended up doing a go-around due to the wind. I think I'm going to need a lot of training before I can think about trying to land in those conditions.
I actually managed to go up today despite the weather. Landing was interesting though... we (ok the instructor
) ended up doing a go-around due to the wind. I think I'm going to need a lot of training before I can think about trying to land in those conditions.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 831
Likes: 0
From: North of South
Doesnt half take me back this , I never ever thought I could land an aircraft after my first few lessons , but it is such a great feeling when you can do it . it all comes with experience guys and gal , just remember that a go around is as important a part of your flying decision making as landing is . better to go around and have another go than to get it wrong and be unable to . No one will criticise you for a GA
Good luck you guys and keep up the enjoyment
Good luck you guys and keep up the enjoyment
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Eastbourne
Having 2 lessons back to back was probably the best decision I've made so far. I feel like I've made an enormous amount of progress this weekend, going from complete incompetence to actually having a vague idea how to fly the aircraft!
Today we handled 'proper' climbs and descents, taxying (aside from going the wrong way and fumbling with the brakes I didn't make too much of a hash of this) and I even made a very nervous-sounding radio call although I'm convinced the subsequent silent pause from the controller was him trying to work out whether it was a genuine call or some prankster having a laugh.
Thanks for the advice guys. The slightly 'OT' posts in this thread have been most informative too
.
Now for some light reading... in the form of the Air Law manual
Today we handled 'proper' climbs and descents, taxying (aside from going the wrong way and fumbling with the brakes I didn't make too much of a hash of this) and I even made a very nervous-sounding radio call although I'm convinced the subsequent silent pause from the controller was him trying to work out whether it was a genuine call or some prankster having a laugh
.Thanks for the advice guys. The slightly 'OT' posts in this thread have been most informative too
.Now for some light reading... in the form of the Air Law manual
