florida or london
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florida or london
Do you think it is better getting a ppl in florida for £5000 http://www.flyoft.com/pilot_course.php
or here in the uk for £8000??
or here in the uk for £8000??
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If your going to fly in the UK, train in the UK. If saving a few quid during training means more to you than the actual flying, 'ave a word.
Go and hour build anywhere, but the important part, the building blocks of training that you'll carry for the rest of your life, those are a very different story.
When I have time, I'm doing a 'spare seat ride' for someone who trained US and now lacks the confidence to fly in UK airspace. It's not the first person I've did that for either.
Controversial maybe, but you asked for an opinion, and so you got one.
Good luck though, and welcome to the hampster wheel that is G.A.
Go and hour build anywhere, but the important part, the building blocks of training that you'll carry for the rest of your life, those are a very different story.
When I have time, I'm doing a 'spare seat ride' for someone who trained US and now lacks the confidence to fly in UK airspace. It's not the first person I've did that for either.
Controversial maybe, but you asked for an opinion, and so you got one.
Good luck though, and welcome to the hampster wheel that is G.A.
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It's only a PPL, i would go to Florida.
Ignore the Nay sayers about Florida training.
The R/T differences is not a pain in the ar**
The airspace differences is not a pain in the ar**
You will most likely learn a few more manouvers in the US than you will in the UK.
As for the weather differences, it really depends when you go. If you go in December you will get all sorts of weather.
Hot days
Cold days (cold enough to have to de-ice your plane)
Cloudy days
Windy days
Rainy days
I perosnally went to OBA. When I got back to the UK I done 1.9 hours with my local club and that inculded a cheackout for the C172
Ignore the Nay sayers about Florida training.
The R/T differences is not a pain in the ar**
The airspace differences is not a pain in the ar**
You will most likely learn a few more manouvers in the US than you will in the UK.
As for the weather differences, it really depends when you go. If you go in December you will get all sorts of weather.
Hot days
Cold days (cold enough to have to de-ice your plane)
Cloudy days
Windy days
Rainy days
I perosnally went to OBA. When I got back to the UK I done 1.9 hours with my local club and that inculded a cheackout for the C172
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With respect fella, it's not surprising to hear someone who went to Florida tell the tale that it's okay to go. However:
'It's only a PPL, i would go to Florida.' What does this mean exactly? That if you decide to go CPL later your screwed, because your skill foundation blocks aren't good enough? Maybe you mean different, but it's certainly open to that interpretation.
'You will most likely learn a few more manouvers in the US than you will in the UK.' And this one; I can think of a few jokes of the top of my head that would fit that line, especially with the rep of some of the US schools, but again, care to elaborate?
'It's only a PPL, i would go to Florida.' What does this mean exactly? That if you decide to go CPL later your screwed, because your skill foundation blocks aren't good enough? Maybe you mean different, but it's certainly open to that interpretation.
'You will most likely learn a few more manouvers in the US than you will in the UK.' And this one; I can think of a few jokes of the top of my head that would fit that line, especially with the rep of some of the US schools, but again, care to elaborate?
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What I mean by "it's only a PPL" is...it is not like you are looking for a creme de la creme CPL license from "quality" school that only Lord Fathersham Ponsonby Smithe can afford, and only a school that Lord Farqhaurt Snittert-Rothschild is intertested in hiring from.
And I am not saying Floirda schools a re not quality.
I have trained in the US and the UK, and for a PPL i can't see the point in paying £8k for something I can get for £3k without any differences for the worst.
As for manouvers, I have not come accross a UK based school that teach the following:
1) Spins (as in actualy spinning)
2) Short field landings (practical not just waffle)
3) Short field take off's (practical not just waffle)
4) Soft field landings (practical not just waffle)
5) Soft field take off's (practical not just waffle)
6) 360 turns over an object
7) S turns over landmarks
Items 1 - 5 I think are absolutley critical to learn.
And I am not saying Floirda schools a re not quality.
I have trained in the US and the UK, and for a PPL i can't see the point in paying £8k for something I can get for £3k without any differences for the worst.
As for manouvers, I have not come accross a UK based school that teach the following:
1) Spins (as in actualy spinning)
2) Short field landings (practical not just waffle)
3) Short field take off's (practical not just waffle)
4) Soft field landings (practical not just waffle)
5) Soft field take off's (practical not just waffle)
6) 360 turns over an object
7) S turns over landmarks
Items 1 - 5 I think are absolutley critical to learn.
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GColyer
"Ignore the Nay sayers about Florida training.
The R/T differences is not a pain in the ar**
The airspace differences is not a pain in the ar**
You will most likely learn a few more manouvers in the US than you will in the UK."
Amen to that.
Chukkablade, I'm sorry but I have to vehemently disagree with you.
"If you're going to fly in the UK learn in the UK - why exactly?"
Is it because it is more expensive?
Is it because you will have little continuity of lessons because of ****e weather (even in summer)?
Is it because the school machine you will be flying will often be an old wreck in the UK?
Is it because in the UK you will often be trained at a strip where RT will be minimal and not a busy airport and then flying into a busy airport will scare the crap out of you?
Think of all those nice landing fees?
Coupled with the astronomical price of avgas?
And to crown things nicely the bureaucracy of the CAA/JAR in terms of having to pay for a new license every few years - lovely! Don't we do well over here!
My advice: Go to the US, have fun, enjoy the weather, (see how aviation really should be done) and get your ticket quickly and inexpensively in genuinely busy airspace where you get to use the radio and fly at night. Then you can come back and realise that you need an IR anyway if you are going to fly seriously in Northern Europe (even in the alleged all too short summer that we have).
So then go back to the US and do an FAA/IR, buy a deiced N-reg machine and have the freedom of the skies.
Simple innit!
SB
"Ignore the Nay sayers about Florida training.
The R/T differences is not a pain in the ar**
The airspace differences is not a pain in the ar**
You will most likely learn a few more manouvers in the US than you will in the UK."
Amen to that.
Chukkablade, I'm sorry but I have to vehemently disagree with you.
"If you're going to fly in the UK learn in the UK - why exactly?"
Is it because it is more expensive?
Is it because you will have little continuity of lessons because of ****e weather (even in summer)?
Is it because the school machine you will be flying will often be an old wreck in the UK?
Is it because in the UK you will often be trained at a strip where RT will be minimal and not a busy airport and then flying into a busy airport will scare the crap out of you?
Think of all those nice landing fees?
Coupled with the astronomical price of avgas?
And to crown things nicely the bureaucracy of the CAA/JAR in terms of having to pay for a new license every few years - lovely! Don't we do well over here!
My advice: Go to the US, have fun, enjoy the weather, (see how aviation really should be done) and get your ticket quickly and inexpensively in genuinely busy airspace where you get to use the radio and fly at night. Then you can come back and realise that you need an IR anyway if you are going to fly seriously in Northern Europe (even in the alleged all too short summer that we have).
So then go back to the US and do an FAA/IR, buy a deiced N-reg machine and have the freedom of the skies.
Simple innit!
SB
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I will add that I done a JAA course in Florida and have an FAA license based on that.
It cost me no extra, other than the £38 the CAA wanted to release my file to the FAA. My FAA license is valid as long as my JAA license is valid and I can add FAA ratings to my FAA license if I want to.
So I have the best of both worlds.
It cost me no extra, other than the £38 the CAA wanted to release my file to the FAA. My FAA license is valid as long as my JAA license is valid and I can add FAA ratings to my FAA license if I want to.
So I have the best of both worlds.
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aha , interesting , the spin thing is obviously due to there being no requirement for it , however some schools although they don not teach it they do insist that it is demo'd RVR at liverpool for one .
Landings soft field short field and take offs soft field short field that would depend on your location of choice . I initially did my ppl at Brize Norton but they always took you elsewhere for circuits like welesbourne , not particularly long or hinton in the hedges , tiny. But some schools say for example at Barton , every take off and landing there is soft field short field regardless cos barton is small .
360 turns over a fixed spot , I did a lot of steep turns in my training and had to demo them as required by the syllabus , They are by definition going to be over the same spot otherwise they wouldnt be that steep methinks and S turns arent they just like clearing turns ??
Just being devils advocate here itsd my belief just do what suits pocket and ambitions at the time I know people who have trained all over some good some bad but there is no precursor that points to one location as being a bad training provider . I was taught by serving RAF pilots the raf way you might think that would lead me to being quite good , I wouldnt say that .I believe I had a good grounding but I still make all the same mistakes that the rest of us do .If you can pass a skills test and a club checkout then where you trained shouldnt matter , but again thats just my opinion
Landings soft field short field and take offs soft field short field that would depend on your location of choice . I initially did my ppl at Brize Norton but they always took you elsewhere for circuits like welesbourne , not particularly long or hinton in the hedges , tiny. But some schools say for example at Barton , every take off and landing there is soft field short field regardless cos barton is small .
360 turns over a fixed spot , I did a lot of steep turns in my training and had to demo them as required by the syllabus , They are by definition going to be over the same spot otherwise they wouldnt be that steep methinks and S turns arent they just like clearing turns ??
Just being devils advocate here itsd my belief just do what suits pocket and ambitions at the time I know people who have trained all over some good some bad but there is no precursor that points to one location as being a bad training provider . I was taught by serving RAF pilots the raf way you might think that would lead me to being quite good , I wouldnt say that .I believe I had a good grounding but I still make all the same mistakes that the rest of us do .If you can pass a skills test and a club checkout then where you trained shouldnt matter , but again thats just my opinion
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Steep truns and the FAA's 360 are different, as is the S turns versus clearing turns.
The 360 is a turn over a fixed point not alloing the aircraft to drift of the turning point. Example you are pivoting around house. When you commence the turn you are not allowed to gain or loose more than 50ft alt and your wing that that is pivoting the house is not allowed to drift closer or further from the house. On a windy day this can be a challenge.
S turns along a terrain feature are a similar thing. Lets pick a straight road as our feature. You commence the manouver 90 degrees to the road, as soon as you cross the road you begin a left or right hand turn. By the time you have turned 180 degrees you should be crossing back over the road. As soon as you make the second crossing you turn in the opposite direction. As soon as you have turned 180 in that direction you should be crossing the road again. It is not as easy at is sounds, esepcially on a windy day. It is all about judging the wind and the time of the turn. And it is a failure if you turn out of the 180 to early or too late. You must cross the road as the turn finishes.
The 360 is a turn over a fixed point not alloing the aircraft to drift of the turning point. Example you are pivoting around house. When you commence the turn you are not allowed to gain or loose more than 50ft alt and your wing that that is pivoting the house is not allowed to drift closer or further from the house. On a windy day this can be a challenge.
S turns along a terrain feature are a similar thing. Lets pick a straight road as our feature. You commence the manouver 90 degrees to the road, as soon as you cross the road you begin a left or right hand turn. By the time you have turned 180 degrees you should be crossing back over the road. As soon as you make the second crossing you turn in the opposite direction. As soon as you have turned 180 in that direction you should be crossing the road again. It is not as easy at is sounds, esepcially on a windy day. It is all about judging the wind and the time of the turn. And it is a failure if you turn out of the 180 to early or too late. You must cross the road as the turn finishes.
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sounds fun , but it isnt a requirement of a PPL so why do they teach it , I would say that it would be useful for a police fixed wing pilot perhapsor an aerial photographer but for a PPL ?
But again different ways different methods but the same goal , do whatever suits pocket ambition and time
But again different ways different methods but the same goal , do whatever suits pocket ambition and time
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I believe you get taught it due to FAA regulations, after all it is an FAA PPL requirement. the same as you have to do the FAA pre solo exam even if you are on a JAA course.
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The are two options in the US:
a) an FAA PPL (which allows you to fly a G-reg worldwide but is nearly useless for other European registrations)
b) a JAA PPL (which can be done at only a few U.S. schools)
I have a standalone CAA and FAA PPLs and can say the FAA one is harder. It also includes a night rating as standard, whose flying requirements exceed that of the JAA one. I did the IR in the USA and that was very tough indeed.
However, be careful to compare like with like. If you go to the USA, you will be flying solidly until done, for say 4 weeks. If you did the same in the UK (basically, booked yourself into a B&B near the airport and flew daily; something virtually nobody does over here) you would also do the PPL in 4 weeks - assuming good weather. Instead, people slot the flying into their lives over here, and spend a leisurely year or so doing it, not to mention an average of £8k-10k.
The cost saving of US training is eaten into by airline tickets and accommodation, not to mention the significant time spent grinding through the paperwork for TSA and Visa.
a) an FAA PPL (which allows you to fly a G-reg worldwide but is nearly useless for other European registrations)
b) a JAA PPL (which can be done at only a few U.S. schools)
I have a standalone CAA and FAA PPLs and can say the FAA one is harder. It also includes a night rating as standard, whose flying requirements exceed that of the JAA one. I did the IR in the USA and that was very tough indeed.
However, be careful to compare like with like. If you go to the USA, you will be flying solidly until done, for say 4 weeks. If you did the same in the UK (basically, booked yourself into a B&B near the airport and flew daily; something virtually nobody does over here) you would also do the PPL in 4 weeks - assuming good weather. Instead, people slot the flying into their lives over here, and spend a leisurely year or so doing it, not to mention an average of £8k-10k.
The cost saving of US training is eaten into by airline tickets and accommodation, not to mention the significant time spent grinding through the paperwork for TSA and Visa.
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IO540 has a point. There are some extra costs involved with going to the states. But I still think it is cheaper to go there.
Definate Extra costs:
Flights £700 (ish)
TSA $130
SEEVIS $100
VISA £70
Food ???
FAA Medical ???
Study material £250
Accomodation £800
Finger printing $20
Now the school I went to included in thier costs the following:
TSA
SEEVIS
VISA
FAA Medical
Study Material
Accomondation
Finger printing
Leaving me to only have to fork out for flights and food. My course cost me £2789.00 after forking out for the flights and food it cost me about £3500 which is at least half the price of what it would cost in the UK, and that included the night qualification as well.
Definate Extra costs:
Flights £700 (ish)
TSA $130
SEEVIS $100
VISA £70
Food ???
FAA Medical ???
Study material £250
Accomodation £800
Finger printing $20
Now the school I went to included in thier costs the following:
TSA
SEEVIS
VISA
FAA Medical
Study Material
Accomondation
Finger printing
Leaving me to only have to fork out for flights and food. My course cost me £2789.00 after forking out for the flights and food it cost me about £3500 which is at least half the price of what it would cost in the UK, and that included the night qualification as well.
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Scooterboy, you say
'Is it because it is more expensive?
Is it because you will have little continuity of lessons because of ****e weather (even in summer)?
Is it because the school machine you will be flying will often be an old wreck in the UK?
Is it because in the UK you will often be trained at a strip where RT will be minimal and not a busy airport and then flying into a busy airport will scare the crap out of you?
Think of all those nice landing fees?
Coupled with the astronomical price of avgas?
And to crown things nicely the bureaucracy of the CAA/JAR in terms of having to pay for a new license every few years - lovely! Don't we do well over here!'
That'll be generalisation in the extreme then. Some of it borders on insult to the schools I know in the UK.
As for the folowing
'1) Spins (as in actualy spinning)
2) Short field landings (practical not just waffle)
3) Short field take off's (practical not just waffle)
4) Soft field landings (practical not just waffle)
5) Soft field take off's (practical not just waffle)
6) 360 turns over an object
7) S turns over landmarks'
Well, I did 6 out of those 7 on the run up to the skills test, so maybe my instructor was as on the ball as I thought.
'Is it because it is more expensive?
Is it because you will have little continuity of lessons because of ****e weather (even in summer)?
Is it because the school machine you will be flying will often be an old wreck in the UK?
Is it because in the UK you will often be trained at a strip where RT will be minimal and not a busy airport and then flying into a busy airport will scare the crap out of you?
Think of all those nice landing fees?
Coupled with the astronomical price of avgas?
And to crown things nicely the bureaucracy of the CAA/JAR in terms of having to pay for a new license every few years - lovely! Don't we do well over here!
'That'll be generalisation in the extreme then. Some of it borders on insult to the schools I know in the UK.
As for the folowing
'1) Spins (as in actualy spinning)
2) Short field landings (practical not just waffle)
3) Short field take off's (practical not just waffle)
4) Soft field landings (practical not just waffle)
5) Soft field take off's (practical not just waffle)
6) 360 turns over an object
7) S turns over landmarks'
Well, I did 6 out of those 7 on the run up to the skills test, so maybe my instructor was as on the ball as I thought.
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well i see there are 50/50 views here. Basically i will be flying in uk 90% of the time and other counties the rest. hopefully looking to make a trip to africa or somewhere in the future.
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Given that I'm really struggling to build up any hours in the UK (but I've moaned about that enough in other threads!) I'm very tempted to take a couple of weeks out in the States (or somewhere along those lines) to add a few more hours.
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Hi sheesh123,
I am in a similar position to you and having weighed up all the options and having spoken to both US and UK training pilots, I have decided to go for a UK PPL.
The reasons are numerous but I want to be a safe and competent pilot and I have heard more than a few US scare stories from pilots trained there! Deeply worrying.
The one bit of advice I have been given is try to find an instructor who has a heart for instructing and is not just hours building. This is more difficult than it sounds but I think I have finally found the right person. I will of course update this link as I progress onwards and upwards!
Greg2041
I am in a similar position to you and having weighed up all the options and having spoken to both US and UK training pilots, I have decided to go for a UK PPL.
The reasons are numerous but I want to be a safe and competent pilot and I have heard more than a few US scare stories from pilots trained there! Deeply worrying.
The one bit of advice I have been given is try to find an instructor who has a heart for instructing and is not just hours building. This is more difficult than it sounds but I think I have finally found the right person. I will of course update this link as I progress onwards and upwards!
Greg2041
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I have heard more than a few US scare stories from pilots trained there!
Those stories are invariably spread by the UK establishment i.e. UK schools (who obviously hate the US training option), the CAA and its various associated bodies, NATS, some UK/CAA trained commercial pilots who have been through the gold plated European mill and regard themselves as superior, etc.
I suggest that anybody who believes this cr*p goes up for a flight around the UK countryside and listens to and watches some of the antics which graduates of the UK training system get up to, and listens to various ATCOs tear their (remaining) hair out.
FAA training is plenty rigorous enough. There are differences but these rapidly become insignificant as one gets up there and starts flying around. I had the learn the "US radio" stuff for the IR but forgot all about the differences within a few days of coming back.
The radio differences (and knowing their exact meanings) are in fact far more important when flying IFR than VFR.
Those stories are invariably spread by the UK establishment i.e. UK schools (who obviously hate the US training option), the CAA and its various associated bodies, NATS, some UK/CAA trained commercial pilots who have been through the gold plated European mill and regard themselves as superior, etc.
I suggest that anybody who believes this cr*p goes up for a flight around the UK countryside and listens to and watches some of the antics which graduates of the UK training system get up to, and listens to various ATCOs tear their (remaining) hair out.
FAA training is plenty rigorous enough. There are differences but these rapidly become insignificant as one gets up there and starts flying around. I had the learn the "US radio" stuff for the IR but forgot all about the differences within a few days of coming back.
The radio differences (and knowing their exact meanings) are in fact far more important when flying IFR than VFR.