Which plane to buy..
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Which plane to buy..
HiHi,
Calling all the aeroplane experts....Which 4 seaters would match the following criterias :
able to operate from 500 m grass strip
lift 1,000lb with full IMC/autopilot equipment
above 120kt cruise
easy to maintain/insure
engine can use 100LL or 96UL
Thanks for your help...
Calling all the aeroplane experts....Which 4 seaters would match the following criterias :
able to operate from 500 m grass strip
lift 1,000lb with full IMC/autopilot equipment
above 120kt cruise
easy to maintain/insure
engine can use 100LL or 96UL
Thanks for your help...
Join Date: Sep 2003
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HiHi,
Calling all the aeroplane experts....Which 4 seaters would match the following criterias :
able to operate from 500 m grass strip
lift 1,000lb with full IMC/autopilot equipment
above 120kt cruise
easy to maintain/insure
engine can use 100LL or 96UL
Thanks for your help...
Calling all the aeroplane experts....Which 4 seaters would match the following criterias :
able to operate from 500 m grass strip
lift 1,000lb with full IMC/autopilot equipment
above 120kt cruise
easy to maintain/insure
engine can use 100LL or 96UL
Thanks for your help...
Upto The Buffers
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Another vote for the 177. Bought one approximately 3 months ago. It's a genuine 4 seater with loads of room inside, and it will carry 4 adults on full fuel. A standard 172 and any sub-200bhp PA28 can't do that. Plus it looks great, has set-back wings and no struts so much better viz than 152/172. VP prop, but very easy to fly.
Comes in a choice of fixed gear or retractable, although the latter are more common. Fixed will give you a good 120kt, retract upto 150kt. Oh, and they only use around 35L/hr of avgas. Performance is excellent; under 300m to get airborne, so a 500m strip is more than adequate.
Insurance was £2200 with no low-hours restrictions, although if your're loaded with hours you could probably shave £500 off that.
Comes in a choice of fixed gear or retractable, although the latter are more common. Fixed will give you a good 120kt, retract upto 150kt. Oh, and they only use around 35L/hr of avgas. Performance is excellent; under 300m to get airborne, so a 500m strip is more than adequate.
Insurance was £2200 with no low-hours restrictions, although if your're loaded with hours you could probably shave £500 off that.
Last edited by Shunter; 25th Jan 2007 at 13:46. Reason: horrific spelling
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A 4 seat Jodel (1050?) will do all that. If you slow down to 120kn it will burn very little fuel, and if you want to put skeys on it and visit some of the more challenging strips in the Alps, no problem.
Rod1
Rod1
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Hello,
Cessna 177 is an excellent, roomy airplane, but much better if you aren't the person paying to fix it! If it's an RG, the landing gear is really cool, but fussy, and expensive to maintain. Though it seems to work the same way as the 172 and 182 RG, there are many differences which make it less desirable. Also consider the cost of fixing minor damage, it's not common plane, and getting old. Many airframe parts for the 177 are getting very hard to find as replacements. Insurance companies know this, and will price hull insurance accordingly. The more common the type of aircraft, the more available, and thus more economical, the replacement parts.
The 177 could be operated from 500m by a pilot with experience on type, and favourable conditions , but planning this type of operation as a new venture may be expecting too much, particularly with passengers. A STOL kit, and really good training from an instructor very familiar with the 177 and STOL kit flying would be a benefit.
A Cessna 182 would be a better choice than the 177 if this load out of this runway length is important.
172XP is a great plane, and reasonable cost to maintain, other than the TCM IO-360 engine, which can incur some expensive repairs over time.
The Cessna 180/185 would be an excellent choice for these requirements, but more pilot skill requirements, and higher insurance costs will be involved.
The Piper Cherokee 235 (Dakota) would be suitable, other than it may not leave you feeling relaxed in a 500m runway. Straight tail Arrow is also a great plane, but avoid the "T" tail versions into short runways.
You could also consider the Found FBA-2C series of aircraft, they would meet all of these requirements, with the exception Mogas, and possibly autopilot.
120kts cruise speed is going to cost you quite a bit more. Do you really want to pay half again the cost for that added 10-15 kts?
Cheers, Pilot DAR
Cessna 177 is an excellent, roomy airplane, but much better if you aren't the person paying to fix it! If it's an RG, the landing gear is really cool, but fussy, and expensive to maintain. Though it seems to work the same way as the 172 and 182 RG, there are many differences which make it less desirable. Also consider the cost of fixing minor damage, it's not common plane, and getting old. Many airframe parts for the 177 are getting very hard to find as replacements. Insurance companies know this, and will price hull insurance accordingly. The more common the type of aircraft, the more available, and thus more economical, the replacement parts.
The 177 could be operated from 500m by a pilot with experience on type, and favourable conditions , but planning this type of operation as a new venture may be expecting too much, particularly with passengers. A STOL kit, and really good training from an instructor very familiar with the 177 and STOL kit flying would be a benefit.
A Cessna 182 would be a better choice than the 177 if this load out of this runway length is important.
172XP is a great plane, and reasonable cost to maintain, other than the TCM IO-360 engine, which can incur some expensive repairs over time.
The Cessna 180/185 would be an excellent choice for these requirements, but more pilot skill requirements, and higher insurance costs will be involved.
The Piper Cherokee 235 (Dakota) would be suitable, other than it may not leave you feeling relaxed in a 500m runway. Straight tail Arrow is also a great plane, but avoid the "T" tail versions into short runways.
You could also consider the Found FBA-2C series of aircraft, they would meet all of these requirements, with the exception Mogas, and possibly autopilot.
120kts cruise speed is going to cost you quite a bit more. Do you really want to pay half again the cost for that added 10-15 kts?
Cheers, Pilot DAR
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Much as I love Jodels, I think that is pushing it for a 1050. I'd not go off a 500m grass strip 4 up, unless the others were as small and svelte as myself.
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http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%...0President.htm
and there's a nice DR400 for sale here >>> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...n-85631731.htm
and there's a nice DR400 for sale here >>> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...n-85631731.htm
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Jet Ranger!
130kn cruise, 5 or 6 pax, operate from a 50 meter strip! Runs on Jet A1 or whatever you want to call it at half the price of mogas, or just ordinary petrol as most people know it! Maintenance is a bit more of a grey area. But as IO540 says, a new piece of kit wont cost half as much as a decrepit old banger will, so it wont be too much if you keep it all upto date. Plus you get to up your street cred by having a chopper to play with
Should impress the girleys!
I'm sorry, but did you mention budget? Well £150k should get you a working example i think!
Should impress the girleys!I'm sorry, but did you mention budget? Well £150k should get you a working example i think!
Sorry to burst your bubble, stray10level, but I must correct a few of your details:
Not from a Jetranger, I'm afraid. With all 5 seats full and a bit of fuel, you'll be lucky to get 95kts. Now, if you meant a LONGranger, then you're looking at a cruise of 110-120kts with 5 or 6 pax.
That much?
Within reason, you can safely operate from your back garden.
Yep, burns nice 'cheap' JetA1. Unfortunately though, it burns it at about 30USG an hour!
Cost of maintenance? Well, if you want to budget for it, think of a number. Then double it. Then double it again. And again. Essentially, if you are going to compare it to fixed wing maintenance costs, then just think LOTS. 
You ain't wrong there! 
Unfortunately, £150k will only get you 'a decrepit old banger' Longranger. Triple that amount for a reasonable example.
But I do like your thinking!
PS I thought that this was a plane...:
Sorry, someone had to say it! I know; hat, coat, door etc...
Not from a Jetranger, I'm afraid. With all 5 seats full and a bit of fuel, you'll be lucky to get 95kts. Now, if you meant a LONGranger, then you're looking at a cruise of 110-120kts with 5 or 6 pax.
That much?
Within reason, you can safely operate from your back garden.But I do like your thinking!
PS I thought that this was a plane...:
Sorry, someone had to say it! I know; hat, coat, door etc...
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The Jodel 1050 fails on payload and speed, nice little machine though it is. The DR250 however ticks all the boxes. Payload about 400kg, but you get away with less fuel on an O-320 burning 27-30 l/hr at 120 knots.
DR400-180 and D140 Mousquetaire from the same stable are worthy contenders too. The D140 maybe a little slower, but will lift a massive payload.
If you,ve got a workshop and some time to spare, howabout building an RV-10 and really go places?
DR400-180 and D140 Mousquetaire from the same stable are worthy contenders too. The D140 maybe a little slower, but will lift a massive payload.
If you,ve got a workshop and some time to spare, howabout building an RV-10 and really go places?