Student feeling like a Muppett
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Manchester
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No need to feel like a muppet, not at all.
You have shown a classic example of the one thing that you can't be taught, "airmanship". Otherwise known in civvy street as common sense.
You didn't like it and made a quick decision on a safety basis.
The only thing to say is Well Done You
You have shown a classic example of the one thing that you can't be taught, "airmanship". Otherwise known in civvy street as common sense.
You didn't like it and made a quick decision on a safety basis.
The only thing to say is Well Done You
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Leicester
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Well done good descision.
If you look at it the other way and your engine quit at 300ft and you did a bad forced landing and ended up in the hospital you'd still feel a prat but for different reasons wishing you had stopped turned round and gone in.
Well Done again
David
If you look at it the other way and your engine quit at 300ft and you did a bad forced landing and ended up in the hospital you'd still feel a prat but for different reasons wishing you had stopped turned round and gone in.
Well Done again
David
I agree that your aborted touch and go was a sound airmanship action and precisely the right thing to do.
As others have said, the interruption of your mental plan would have been very likely to lead to your omission regrading the battery master. Always have a look at brakes/mags/master when getting out!
Incidentally, as for the cause, there could have been a problem, perhaps, with the primer? An FI at my club once landed early and snagged an engine for rough running - the cause was obvious when I checked....the primer wasn't fully locked!
Well done - and thanks for the help/reassurance that your tale will have provided to others!
As others have said, the interruption of your mental plan would have been very likely to lead to your omission regrading the battery master. Always have a look at brakes/mags/master when getting out!
Incidentally, as for the cause, there could have been a problem, perhaps, with the primer? An FI at my club once landed early and snagged an engine for rough running - the cause was obvious when I checked....the primer wasn't fully locked!
Well done - and thanks for the help/reassurance that your tale will have provided to others!
Lots of good advice here.
According to this carb ice chart, the likelihood is pretty faint at 32C, but not totally impossible. Don't forget that the temp in the air was likely cooler.
http://www.faa.gov/ats/afss/newyork/ENROUTE.htm
You may have been taught to take off the carburetor heat on short final so that you have one less thing to forget if you have to do a go-around. I have several memories of being whacked upside the head whenever I did not push it in before advancing the throttle.
As for your throttle movement, unless you have taken to advancing it more rapidly solo than with your instructor, the accelerator pump should not be an issue.
According to this carb ice chart, the likelihood is pretty faint at 32C, but not totally impossible. Don't forget that the temp in the air was likely cooler.
http://www.faa.gov/ats/afss/newyork/ENROUTE.htm
You may have been taught to take off the carburetor heat on short final so that you have one less thing to forget if you have to do a go-around. I have several memories of being whacked upside the head whenever I did not push it in before advancing the throttle.
As for your throttle movement, unless you have taken to advancing it more rapidly solo than with your instructor, the accelerator pump should not be an issue.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
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Wow. Such a lot of replies!
I won't thank you all personally as it would take too long but seriously, I do appreciate every last comment you have all made. Although I admittedly still have a long, long way to go, your contributions have made me a little wiser and best of all, I don't feel like such a muppet now!!!
You've all taught me (besides the obvious) that it's good to get your mistakes out in the open, not just because the forthcoming advice makes you feel more at ease with the decisions that you made at the time, but because it makes you more informed and more prepared if there is a next time.
I know my FI is there to do this (and always does, I hasten to add) but it's nice to get feedback from non-biased sources!
If people still have points to make, please keep them coming. It helps me no end and no doubt will assist other studes who may have experienced similar situations to my own.
I have another slot booked this weekend for some more solo time (if weather and FI permits), - hopefully it won't be so eventful this time! Watch this space.
RatherBe, that's a surprising link you just posted. Cheers.
You've all taught me (besides the obvious) that it's good to get your mistakes out in the open, not just because the forthcoming advice makes you feel more at ease with the decisions that you made at the time, but because it makes you more informed and more prepared if there is a next time.
I know my FI is there to do this (and always does, I hasten to add) but it's nice to get feedback from non-biased sources!
If people still have points to make, please keep them coming. It helps me no end and no doubt will assist other studes who may have experienced similar situations to my own.
I have another slot booked this weekend for some more solo time (if weather and FI permits), - hopefully it won't be so eventful this time! Watch this space.
RatherBe, that's a surprising link you just posted. Cheers.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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There was nothing in your decision making that makes you a prat
You heard something unusual & acted on it correctly,
I am in the early stage of my training & it is easy to forget lots of things, but to remember & act on the important things is all that is necessary.
I would commend your instructor for getting you into that state of mind rather than the "it's probably ok" mode. Our overshoot / EFAT area up here is a flooded quarry, if I had a warning while still on the runway I would certainly feel a prat if I found myself scrambling up them rocks, if I were able to!
Well done Captain.
You heard something unusual & acted on it correctly,
I am in the early stage of my training & it is easy to forget lots of things, but to remember & act on the important things is all that is necessary.
I would commend your instructor for getting you into that state of mind rather than the "it's probably ok" mode. Our overshoot / EFAT area up here is a flooded quarry, if I had a warning while still on the runway I would certainly feel a prat if I found myself scrambling up them rocks, if I were able to!
Well done Captain.
Upto The Buffers
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Fairly soon after passing my PPL (still under 50 hours TT at that point), I had just taken off from Leeds to fly to Blackpool with a friend. Climbing out towards Keighley the engine coughed 3 or 4 times, then started to run smoothly again. Not a tough decision really; runway 5 miles behind me, or Pennine hills 5 miles in front...
I called a Pan, turned round and held my 1500ft until a mile from the threshold to avoid the vortex from the 737 that was still vacating the runway. The engine ran smoothly all the way back... ATC going 10 to the dozen, fire engines charging about....
The point is that it's quite alright and normal to feel stupid when you're firmly on the ground, perhaps even melodramatic and maybe even a timewaster. I would have felt a hell of a lot more stupid (and probably quite a lot more dead) if I'd carried on over some pretty nasty terrain and things had gone pear shaped.
As it happened my cautious anality was vinidicated; although the aircraft had already flown 3 hours that day, and my fuel drain had revealed nothing untoward, there was water in the fuel system from it being sat outside in the rain at another aerodrome for the previous 3 days after a mag problem.
If in doubt, land and get out.
I called a Pan, turned round and held my 1500ft until a mile from the threshold to avoid the vortex from the 737 that was still vacating the runway. The engine ran smoothly all the way back... ATC going 10 to the dozen, fire engines charging about....
The point is that it's quite alright and normal to feel stupid when you're firmly on the ground, perhaps even melodramatic and maybe even a timewaster. I would have felt a hell of a lot more stupid (and probably quite a lot more dead) if I'd carried on over some pretty nasty terrain and things had gone pear shaped.
As it happened my cautious anality was vinidicated; although the aircraft had already flown 3 hours that day, and my fuel drain had revealed nothing untoward, there was water in the fuel system from it being sat outside in the rain at another aerodrome for the previous 3 days after a mag problem.
If in doubt, land and get out.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Nil Flaps, good thread lots of good replies just to repeat what every one else had said good decision better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air rather than the other way round.
As for the fluffed shutdown drill why did it happen ?welcome to the key to safe flying, my pet subject human performance and limitations or HPL.
I wont try and explain the whole subject but basically you have something called the stress/performance curve because of your limited experience you would have already been right at the top of the curve the engine splutter forced you over into brain meltdown teritory which is why you failed to shut down the engine properly,take it as a good lesson.
Engine failiures dont kill people they kill themselves because they panic,stall and hit the ground, read accident reports " the aircraft engine was heard to stop shortly after take off then the nose pitched up then dropped the aircraft the desended into the ground" basically the engine quit and so did the poor souls brain shortly after, instead of shoving the nose down and getting some glide distance they paniced (easy for me to say sitting on the ground I know).
But HPL truly is the key to safe flying use it in your nav planning think of your workload not just the route use it when joining the circuit to a new airfield eg 1 stage of flap 2100 rpm 80kts slow everything down give yourself time and most importantly learn to spot the early signs of brain shutdown and address the issue by reducing workload.
You have enviromental stress eg flying itself and induced stress which is what we bring on ourselves for example trying to be to perfect or having unreasonable goals.
I could waffle on all day but listen dont worry about he other day we all have our stories to tell, learn from it HPL factors the importance of check lists etc and dont forget the important fact that your reactive decsion eg aborting the touch and go was spot on you cant teach people that split second decsion making they can either do it or they cant.
happy and safe flying to you all.
As for the fluffed shutdown drill why did it happen ?welcome to the key to safe flying, my pet subject human performance and limitations or HPL.
I wont try and explain the whole subject but basically you have something called the stress/performance curve because of your limited experience you would have already been right at the top of the curve the engine splutter forced you over into brain meltdown teritory which is why you failed to shut down the engine properly,take it as a good lesson.
Engine failiures dont kill people they kill themselves because they panic,stall and hit the ground, read accident reports " the aircraft engine was heard to stop shortly after take off then the nose pitched up then dropped the aircraft the desended into the ground" basically the engine quit and so did the poor souls brain shortly after, instead of shoving the nose down and getting some glide distance they paniced (easy for me to say sitting on the ground I know).
But HPL truly is the key to safe flying use it in your nav planning think of your workload not just the route use it when joining the circuit to a new airfield eg 1 stage of flap 2100 rpm 80kts slow everything down give yourself time and most importantly learn to spot the early signs of brain shutdown and address the issue by reducing workload.
You have enviromental stress eg flying itself and induced stress which is what we bring on ourselves for example trying to be to perfect or having unreasonable goals.
I could waffle on all day but listen dont worry about he other day we all have our stories to tell, learn from it HPL factors the importance of check lists etc and dont forget the important fact that your reactive decsion eg aborting the touch and go was spot on you cant teach people that split second decsion making they can either do it or they cant.
happy and safe flying to you all.
The Original Whirly
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rustle,
Thanks for that. I didn't notice that he was in Oz!!! Who's the muppet now? I like to think I'm more aware than that when I'm flying.
However, I'm pretty sure that at 32C and with high humidity you definitely can get carb icing. We had it that hot here last summer, and I certainly had some signs of it in the R22. Though of course, other reasons are possible too.
the thread starter flies in Australia (WA IIRC), not the UK. With +32C and humid it is possible but unlikely to have been carb ice
However, I'm pretty sure that at 32C and with high humidity you definitely can get carb icing. We had it that hot here last summer, and I certainly had some signs of it in the R22. Though of course, other reasons are possible too.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Well done Cap'n, you did nothing wrong! All part of the learning process. Wait till you start flying retractable gear a/c and the instructor (hopefully) reminds you that you forgot the "3 greens" check on final and you are about to belly-flop on to the tarmac. Then you really do feel like a muppet!
From our first flying lesson, we are taught that perfection (or as close as we can get to it) is the only acceptable standard. No wonder that we tend to castigate ourselves over every memory lapse or mistake. But I think you have learned something very important: when you are stressed, it's much, much easier to make mistakes and errors of judgement. The aviation accident reports bear this out time and time again. So you now know that when you're feeling stressed about an incident during a flight (or by a non-flying event prior to flying), it's a red flag to be extra-careful and triple-check everything (such as the gear really is down and locked). Yes, I've been there....luckily the instructor was more vigilant than I was.
From our first flying lesson, we are taught that perfection (or as close as we can get to it) is the only acceptable standard. No wonder that we tend to castigate ourselves over every memory lapse or mistake. But I think you have learned something very important: when you are stressed, it's much, much easier to make mistakes and errors of judgement. The aviation accident reports bear this out time and time again. So you now know that when you're feeling stressed about an incident during a flight (or by a non-flying event prior to flying), it's a red flag to be extra-careful and triple-check everything (such as the gear really is down and locked). Yes, I've been there....luckily the instructor was more vigilant than I was.
Thread Starter
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G'day peeps, Muppet here
Just went for a fly. Perfect conditions; still as. Managed 0.8hr solo this time after a circuit check. Loved every minute of it.
Confidence back up again, even with a few minor but corrected mistakes. Circuits could have been tighter, landings could've been a little lighter, (more hold-off needed) but I'm still here to tell the tale.
Glad to report I had no hiccups with the engine this time, applied power more gently, left carb-heat on until later on finals, even managed to shut down without looking like the prize pr1ck, everything like you guys told me. On yer
Confidence back up again, even with a few minor but corrected mistakes. Circuits could have been tighter, landings could've been a little lighter, (more hold-off needed) but I'm still here to tell the tale.
Glad to report I had no hiccups with the engine this time, applied power more gently, left carb-heat on until later on finals, even managed to shut down without looking like the prize pr1ck, everything like you guys told me. On yer
