Norwich and toothpaste
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Norwich and toothpaste
Been through Norwich recently. Impressive security, and they confiscate toothpaste, on the way to and from the plane.
I did enquire how the hell is somebody going to fly there on business, in a bizjet or whatever, visiting say a customer with a load of sharp tools or suspicious stuff like electronic components and loads of wires... they have a separate check gate for that sort of stuff, as well as bulky items.
But toothpaste still gets confiscated.
I did enquire how the hell is somebody going to fly there on business, in a bizjet or whatever, visiting say a customer with a load of sharp tools or suspicious stuff like electronic components and loads of wires... they have a separate check gate for that sort of stuff, as well as bulky items.
But toothpaste still gets confiscated.
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Had my water confiscated at Newquay today. They were not impressed when I asked if they thought I was going to pour it on the main spar and wait for it to corrode through so the wings fell off. Some people have no sense of humour.
They did leave my toothpaste alone and did not seem at all perturbed about the 14" spike I use to anchor my kite flying lines to the ground that was in my bag.
They did leave my toothpaste alone and did not seem at all perturbed about the 14" spike I use to anchor my kite flying lines to the ground that was in my bag.
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Security idiots
All you need to do is tell the half-witted idiots that the toothpaste or other items are to be stowed in the baggage hold and cannot be accessed in flight, this works at the better airports in the UK.
It won't work in Manchester they are a bunch of Nazi's without the sence of humor.
Howerver these items should not be taken from the crew of a private flight and I would be inclined to invoice the airport for the things that they have taken in error, you probably won't get the money but it will cost them a fortune in administration dealing with the invoice!
It won't work in Manchester they are a bunch of Nazi's without the sence of humor.
Howerver these items should not be taken from the crew of a private flight and I would be inclined to invoice the airport for the things that they have taken in error, you probably won't get the money but it will cost them a fortune in administration dealing with the invoice!
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I left half a bottle of water in my bag and it was spotted in the Xray and taken out. I said I would drink it there and then rather than throw it away. The security guard said that I couldn't do that and refused to let me have it back even just to drink it.
I questioned this and got the 'rules is rules' answer.
I think its just an excuse to sell you a 0.5 litre bottle of water for £1.20 (more expensive than AVGAS!). Notice there are no drinking fountains anywhere in British airports, unlike US ones.
BAA monopoly!?
I questioned this and got the 'rules is rules' answer.
I think its just an excuse to sell you a 0.5 litre bottle of water for £1.20 (more expensive than AVGAS!). Notice there are no drinking fountains anywhere in British airports, unlike US ones.
BAA monopoly!?
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I was exactly that, SS.
The rationale for this security is apparently that
a) you are going to be mixing with passengers in the boarding lounge so anything in your luggage (which, note, could be huge backpacks which would never qualify as carry-on in a 737) could be passed to somebody else, and
b) you are going airside and could walk up to a 737 etc and sabotage it.
The first is trivial to address: get GA crews straight out to their plane.
The second is not trivial to address but in most places GA planes are parked so far away from jet transports that if you were taking the half mile walk you would most likely get spotted.
As I say, physical separation is the way to do this, and in most places it would be easy. Unfortunately, most airports are run by people with zero lateral thinking; they never realise that GA (business GA especially) could represent significant traffic if it was supported.
The rationale for this security is apparently that
a) you are going to be mixing with passengers in the boarding lounge so anything in your luggage (which, note, could be huge backpacks which would never qualify as carry-on in a 737) could be passed to somebody else, and
b) you are going airside and could walk up to a 737 etc and sabotage it.
The first is trivial to address: get GA crews straight out to their plane.
The second is not trivial to address but in most places GA planes are parked so far away from jet transports that if you were taking the half mile walk you would most likely get spotted.
As I say, physical separation is the way to do this, and in most places it would be easy. Unfortunately, most airports are run by people with zero lateral thinking; they never realise that GA (business GA especially) could represent significant traffic if it was supported.
When the hell will someone have the balls to tell these bottom-fondling failed wheel-clampers to sod off and get a life.
The illogical and zealous imposition of the temporary DfT overkill rules by these nazis is becoming an impossible farce.
Why do we tolerate such ridiculous restrictions in our country? There is nothing like this level of paranoid lunacy in mainland Europe.
The illogical and zealous imposition of the temporary DfT overkill rules by these nazis is becoming an impossible farce.
Why do we tolerate such ridiculous restrictions in our country? There is nothing like this level of paranoid lunacy in mainland Europe.
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Actually some bits I've been to in Europe are just the same, but they (having had a moan about the wire cutters, etc) let you through anyway, saying that you are hardly going to hijack yourself 
Fuji - the toothpaste confiscation system did get tested both ways. I'll let you work out a few ways to do that without buying some. Clue: the plane has more than 1 seat
Fuji - the toothpaste confiscation system did get tested both ways. I'll let you work out a few ways to do that without buying some. Clue: the plane has more than 1 seat
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540
I am still confused. Did you both test it, but only one get "caught" in each direction.
Oh and I thought you were meant to brush your teeth after every meal when I last listened to the Governments health campaign - I suppose in the small print it says "except on long haul"
.
I am still confused. Did you both test it, but only one get "caught" in each direction.
Oh and I thought you were meant to brush your teeth after every meal when I last listened to the Governments health campaign - I suppose in the small print it says "except on long haul"
.
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Back to the original comment about Norwich and toothpaste.
Went there about a month ago with some colleagues in a warrior. I warned everyone after landing to leave anything " incriminating" such as penknives, rucksacks and toothpaste in the aircraft as we would have to go through security checks. After a pleasant tea break and goodbye to friends in the lounge we then had to go through departures. We all had our photo taken, shoes off, empty pockets, keys and coins etc in the tray, jackets through the x-ray machine and so on. Unfortunately me and one other both had bic lighters which were then confiscated. Quite right too, cos if they had not, we could have gone directly out to the apron and set light to my own aircraft!!
But the day was saved whilst being presented with our belongings on the other side of the xray machine and metal detector; a benevolent security guard took pity and gave us both a brand new box of Bryant & May matches........
.
I will say that all the staff were friendly and courteous to the last.
Oh and we thoroughly enjoyed the 100 yard ride in the 40 seater bus to the stand too.
Funny old life innit?
Went there about a month ago with some colleagues in a warrior. I warned everyone after landing to leave anything " incriminating" such as penknives, rucksacks and toothpaste in the aircraft as we would have to go through security checks. After a pleasant tea break and goodbye to friends in the lounge we then had to go through departures. We all had our photo taken, shoes off, empty pockets, keys and coins etc in the tray, jackets through the x-ray machine and so on. Unfortunately me and one other both had bic lighters which were then confiscated. Quite right too, cos if they had not, we could have gone directly out to the apron and set light to my own aircraft!!
But the day was saved whilst being presented with our belongings on the other side of the xray machine and metal detector; a benevolent security guard took pity and gave us both a brand new box of Bryant & May matches........
.I will say that all the staff were friendly and courteous to the last.
Oh and we thoroughly enjoyed the 100 yard ride in the 40 seater bus to the stand too.
Funny old life innit?
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Well it would appear the authorities think shoe bombs can only be manufactured in the UK! I whent from East Mids on EZJET To Prague a month ago. Outbound had to take me shoes off etc etc , inbound shoes stayed firmly on me feet and the metal detector didnt pick up my lucky coin, a big commemorative coin for D-D landings! That i forgot was in that little pouch thingy in the right hand pocket of your jeans! They just gotta be seen to be doing something eh? On the same subject, did anyone notice after 9-11 they stopped planes intercepting the ILS for 27L at LHR. Reason was given that they didnt want planes flying over CENTRAL London, so every one would feel safe in Tony Land. They still had to intercept the ILS at Hammersmith giving about 7 or 8 miles to touchdown. Thing is if a typical airliner decided to go east instead of west at that point and accelerated to 300Kn or more, then Tony would have had about 1-2 minutes to decide to shoot it down or not! Only trouble was i dont remember hearing any military types on patrol and the SAMS were still in Stores as they couldnt afford the refit costs! Its Late Sunday night and i felt like a rant, sorry lads but hey, thats life
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Landed at Norwich on Thursday.
Went land side but did NOT go through the terminal
No x-rays. no security jobsworths.
Had my meeting, returned same way with same absence of stupidity.
It can be done!
Went land side but did NOT go through the terminal
No x-rays. no security jobsworths.
Had my meeting, returned same way with same absence of stupidity.
It can be done!
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How?
The standard way, anywhere, is to contact the aeroclub if there is one. They all have access, and lack of formalities.
Going into the passenger terminal is always a mistake.
Prague LKPR does it perfectly. They use an old terminal for all GA and bizjet ops.
The standard way, anywhere, is to contact the aeroclub if there is one. They all have access, and lack of formalities.
Going into the passenger terminal is always a mistake.
Prague LKPR does it perfectly. They use an old terminal for all GA and bizjet ops.
It's all part of the plot to drive GA away from self-important regional 'International Airports'.......
First put up landing fees to stupid levels, biased against light singles. Recent increases at Staverton, sorry, Gloucestershire International, being a typical example. Then insist that all GA pilots and passengers go through some 'GA terminal' complete with uniformed bottom-fondlers and toothpaste-pilferers. Then insist on 'mandatory handling' at extortionate cost. Pretty soon the word will get round - and yet another once GA-friendly aerodrome becomes a virtual no-go zone....
First put up landing fees to stupid levels, biased against light singles. Recent increases at Staverton, sorry, Gloucestershire International, being a typical example. Then insist that all GA pilots and passengers go through some 'GA terminal' complete with uniformed bottom-fondlers and toothpaste-pilferers. Then insist on 'mandatory handling' at extortionate cost. Pretty soon the word will get round - and yet another once GA-friendly aerodrome becomes a virtual no-go zone....
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Norwich charges £30 (1400kg MTOW). That is high by the usual UK "decrepit GA field" standards, and is high by the French "local chamber of commerce subsidised" standards like Biarritz etc. But it's not high when compared to most airports that are busy with passenger turboprops and 737-type jets. Lots of European airports charge £50-£150.
£30 is only a small part of the operating cost of a reasonable plane. If you are over 2000kg then you will spend that much per hour in IFR route charges.
What £30 means is that you won't be flying your microlight to Norwich.
But (being the devil's advocate) Norwich, and nearly every other UK airfield for that matter (whose grass gets cut more often than once a year, and whose cracks have been repaired at least once since WW2) cannot make ends meet on the microlight burger runs alone.
This is why every airfield is trying to become "XYZ International". It's not (in most cases, I reckon) that they are desperate to chuck out GA. It's because GA spending is so damn tight, and there is too little of it anyway. The airfield cafe can probably just make ends meet on the chocolate cakes and ham and chips, but the airfield will just rot. Even though the UK is probably the busiest GA country outside the USA, the level of activity is still too low to keep an airfield in business on GA alone.
So business traffic is necessary, but "business" won't go there if the place is decrepit. You won't fly anything half decent (a Seneca, never mind a King Air) to some place ridden with potholes.
UK pilots want £5 landing fees, but apart from fuel sales there is no other income for the airfield.
The business about toothpaste confiscation, GA security etc, is just stupid management. It's simple to set up a "GA" entrance/exit. Security is a business full of small men who feel important, and they make a job out of it. But ultimately it is the management that lets them do this empire building.
If I was going to one of these places on business, I would phone them up and ask for the correct procedure to get through, preferably via one of the clubs.
A PPL at Norwich must be expensive though - £2000 spent on landing fees in the typical PPL there.
£30 is only a small part of the operating cost of a reasonable plane. If you are over 2000kg then you will spend that much per hour in IFR route charges.
What £30 means is that you won't be flying your microlight to Norwich.
But (being the devil's advocate) Norwich, and nearly every other UK airfield for that matter (whose grass gets cut more often than once a year, and whose cracks have been repaired at least once since WW2) cannot make ends meet on the microlight burger runs alone.
This is why every airfield is trying to become "XYZ International". It's not (in most cases, I reckon) that they are desperate to chuck out GA. It's because GA spending is so damn tight, and there is too little of it anyway. The airfield cafe can probably just make ends meet on the chocolate cakes and ham and chips, but the airfield will just rot. Even though the UK is probably the busiest GA country outside the USA, the level of activity is still too low to keep an airfield in business on GA alone.
So business traffic is necessary, but "business" won't go there if the place is decrepit. You won't fly anything half decent (a Seneca, never mind a King Air) to some place ridden with potholes.
UK pilots want £5 landing fees, but apart from fuel sales there is no other income for the airfield.
The business about toothpaste confiscation, GA security etc, is just stupid management. It's simple to set up a "GA" entrance/exit. Security is a business full of small men who feel important, and they make a job out of it. But ultimately it is the management that lets them do this empire building.
If I was going to one of these places on business, I would phone them up and ask for the correct procedure to get through, preferably via one of the clubs.
A PPL at Norwich must be expensive though - £2000 spent on landing fees in the typical PPL there.
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If you want to have some ammunition for discussions with security types see the movie:
'Terrorstorm' by Alex Jones. You can watch it online on Google Video for free.
These security guys can't help it, the trouble is up higher (much higher).
'Terrorstorm' by Alex Jones. You can watch it online on Google Video for free.
These security guys can't help it, the trouble is up higher (much higher).
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Went land side but did NOT go through the terminal
No x-rays. no security jobsworths.
Had my meeting, returned same way with same absence of stupidity.
It can be done!
No x-rays. no security jobsworths.
Had my meeting, returned same way with same absence of stupidity.
It can be done!
