Epaulettes
I used to know a truckie Flt Lt who purchased a set of 'gold bars x 4' which he would occasionally don down route in Africa, Asia, Australia etc - apparently worked wonders when things needed doing in a hurry !
PPL's - epaulettes - er ...........no !
PPL's - epaulettes - er ...........no !
Professional Student
Originally Posted by MLS-12D
Sigh ... I'll try again.
I do not believe that RAFVR(T) members are bad people, or that they have anything to be ashamed of. They help children learn about flying and the military, and I'm all for that.
I suspect that most people would agree with the following propositions:
(1) a PPL has a pilot license, but nowhere near the amount of knowledge, skill and experience as that of an ATPL;
(2) an RAFVR(T) member has a commission, but nowhere near the amount of knowledge, skill and experience as that of an RAF or RAuxAF officer.
There is an apparent double standard between an RAFVR(T) member wearing mess kit - which people seem to think shows commendable enthusiasm - and a PPL who wishes to wear eppaulettes - which people seem to think is completely beyond the pale. Personally, I think that both are rather pretentious, but (as I've said repeatedly) harmless ... anyone who wants to do either won't get an argument from me.
I do not believe that RAFVR(T) members are bad people, or that they have anything to be ashamed of. They help children learn about flying and the military, and I'm all for that.
I suspect that most people would agree with the following propositions:
(1) a PPL has a pilot license, but nowhere near the amount of knowledge, skill and experience as that of an ATPL;
(2) an RAFVR(T) member has a commission, but nowhere near the amount of knowledge, skill and experience as that of an RAF or RAuxAF officer.
There is an apparent double standard between an RAFVR(T) member wearing mess kit - which people seem to think shows commendable enthusiasm - and a PPL who wishes to wear eppaulettes - which people seem to think is completely beyond the pale. Personally, I think that both are rather pretentious, but (as I've said repeatedly) harmless ... anyone who wants to do either won't get an argument from me.
But a PPL doesn't get awarded any form of uniform, so therefore any PPL wearing stripes is doing so for their own reasons. Whatever they may be! They can wear whatever they want - but wearing lots of stripes to look like a 747 captain (or whatever) when in reality all you're doing is flying a Cessna 152, PA-28 etc strikes me as rather silly. Unless you're Polly Vacher, which a lot of people aren't.
As for mess dress - if you're in the mess, shouldn't you wear....mess dress? Most VRT officers have to buy their own DPM (green) kit, it's not standard issue AFAIK and not mandatory. Would you therefore argue that a VRT officer on exercise, out in the fields, with his/her cadets, wearing suitable gear which is OPTIONAL is pretentious? They'd look silly in blues.
Hobbit (PPL, never with stripes, and ex-RAFVR(T)! - one small blue stripe with the chaos pin)
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Greens are still not standard issue. NCOs can usually get hold of them, but officers have to use the kit that's issued to cadets...
There's a poster on the wall at Cranwell, says something like:
Chaos =
VR
T
There's a poster on the wall at Cranwell, says something like:
Chaos =
VR
T
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Aww, shucks.
My mum doesn't have my commission on the wall ... 'Cos it still hasn't come!
(She does have copies of my Cranwell group photos though.)
My mum doesn't have my commission on the wall ... 'Cos it still hasn't come!
(She does have copies of my Cranwell group photos though.)
Fair enough, you do a good/thankless job with cadets et al, however there are a few around the bazaars who regard themselves with a little too much importance.
On the subject of saluting, I would love to see the audacious (Virtual Reality Officer) individual who pulled someone up for not saluting them.....now that would be a larf.
Back to the original question about epaulettes, then any PPL'er who wears 'em should be debriefed accordingly, after all you need to do 20 odd hours and a few exams to drive a car, and I don't see anyone wearing formula 1 racing overalls to nip down to ASDA. It is nothing short of pretentious and a rather sad reflection on the individual........
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DS
Your beef has been done to death on a thread on the Mil forum. The consensus was that VR(T) do a good job (just like everyone else in Betty's Services), so long as they don't then lard it around the few remaining RAF bases waiting for salutes, clicking their fingers at Mess stewards etc., which very few do.
I'd suggest that most of the VR(T)Walts are apocryphal, and are largely the invention of blunties who desperately want someone below them in the light blue pecking order.
Your beef has been done to death on a thread on the Mil forum. The consensus was that VR(T) do a good job (just like everyone else in Betty's Services), so long as they don't then lard it around the few remaining RAF bases waiting for salutes, clicking their fingers at Mess stewards etc., which very few do.
I'd suggest that most of the VR(T)Walts are apocryphal, and are largely the invention of blunties who desperately want someone below them in the light blue pecking order.
Last edited by airborne_artist; 23rd Aug 2006 at 18:02.
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Oooh Sanch, I detect bitter and twisted here..... one of the recent graduates of IOTC were you?
You are the ones who had it easy, in my day the training staff were actually allowed to shout at you.......
You are the ones who had it easy, in my day the training staff were actually allowed to shout at you.......
Originally Posted by Dirty Sanchez
So correct me if I am wrong, you spend 5 days at Cranditz, ponce around for group photo's fill in some paperwork, errrrrm, bit of classroom maybe then what a commssioning scroll?? hardly the same as the 24 now 30 odd week course is it???
Fair enough, you do a good/thankless job with cadets et al, however there are a few around the bazaars who regard themselves with a little too much importance.
On the subject of saluting, I would love to see the audacious (Virtual Reality Officer) individual who pulled someone up for not saluting them.....now that would be a larf.
Back to the original question about epaulettes, then any PPL'er who wears 'em should be debriefed accordingly, after all you need to do 20 odd hours and a few exams to drive a car, and I don't see anyone wearing formula 1 racing overalls to nip down to ASDA. It is nothing short of pretentious and a rather sad reflection on the individual........
Fair enough, you do a good/thankless job with cadets et al, however there are a few around the bazaars who regard themselves with a little too much importance.
On the subject of saluting, I would love to see the audacious (Virtual Reality Officer) individual who pulled someone up for not saluting them.....now that would be a larf.
Back to the original question about epaulettes, then any PPL'er who wears 'em should be debriefed accordingly, after all you need to do 20 odd hours and a few exams to drive a car, and I don't see anyone wearing formula 1 racing overalls to nip down to ASDA. It is nothing short of pretentious and a rather sad reflection on the individual........
Professional Student
Originally Posted by Dirty Sanchez
So correct me if I am wrong, you spend 5 days at Cranditz, ponce around for group photo's fill in some paperwork, errrrrm, bit of classroom maybe then what a commssioning scroll?? hardly the same as the 24 now 30 odd week course is it???
Fair enough, you do a good/thankless job with cadets et al, however there are a few around the bazaars who regard themselves with a little too much importance.
On the subject of saluting, I would love to see the audacious (Virtual Reality Officer) individual who pulled someone up for not saluting them.....now that would be a larf.
Back to the original question about epaulettes, then any PPL'er who wears 'em should be debriefed accordingly, after all you need to do 20 odd hours and a few exams to drive a car, and I don't see anyone wearing formula 1 racing overalls to nip down to ASDA. It is nothing short of pretentious and a rather sad reflection on the individual........
Fair enough, you do a good/thankless job with cadets et al, however there are a few around the bazaars who regard themselves with a little too much importance.
On the subject of saluting, I would love to see the audacious (Virtual Reality Officer) individual who pulled someone up for not saluting them.....now that would be a larf.
Back to the original question about epaulettes, then any PPL'er who wears 'em should be debriefed accordingly, after all you need to do 20 odd hours and a few exams to drive a car, and I don't see anyone wearing formula 1 racing overalls to nip down to ASDA. It is nothing short of pretentious and a rather sad reflection on the individual........
You'll get idiots in all walks of life, yes there are walts in the VRT, posing, but the ones that stay do it for the cadets. And that's what the VRT course is for - to equip you to be a (uniformed) youth leader. The good VRT officers don't ponce around at Cranwell, they try to learn as much as possible (and take advantage of the low mess bar prices
). To get back onto subject! Yes PPL with stripes look silly unless they have a good reason. 'Nuff said. I think you'd probably find that those have them are the same sort of people who join the VRT so they can wear a uniform.
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Mr Bose
Likewise old bean, not a recent graduate at all. Also, had plenty of shouting in my direction.
Merely commenting on some of the individuals I have encountered, and as I said, most do a good albeit tough job, however there are always going to be a few that make the lot look like a bunch of idiots. That can be said about any group though......
My point was, a commissioning scroll like the one wot real hofficers get seems a little tenuous for VR(T) guys who spend not very long at Cranwell. I guess it is just all about credibility, a bit like getting a degree from some bolleaux uni/poly!!!
Monsieur Artiste, I agree with your sentiments about the REMF's!!!
Likewise old bean, not a recent graduate at all. Also, had plenty of shouting in my direction.
Merely commenting on some of the individuals I have encountered, and as I said, most do a good albeit tough job, however there are always going to be a few that make the lot look like a bunch of idiots. That can be said about any group though......
My point was, a commissioning scroll like the one wot real hofficers get seems a little tenuous for VR(T) guys who spend not very long at Cranwell. I guess it is just all about credibility, a bit like getting a degree from some bolleaux uni/poly!!!
Monsieur Artiste, I agree with your sentiments about the REMF's!!!
Seems to be an awful lot said about what people wear or ought to wear on pprune! Personally I couldnt care less if a PPL dresses like Admiral Nelson. If I recall correctly the ATPL does not have a ratings page that includes the right to adorn 4 gold bars any more than the PPL one does! Those with the vanity issue are most likely those who look at themsleves the most in the mirror...
'All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night awake in the day to find it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.'
TE Lawrence
'All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night awake in the day to find it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.'
TE Lawrence
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Originally Posted by tom775257
Ahh the fun of pilots uniforms = security guard. I was in Sainsburies the other day, when someone got annoyed with me and a few other pilots with me because we couldn't tell him where the charcoal was. When we said "sorry we don't work here.' he looked confused for a while, then angrily stated "What are you doing here then!" Shopping....
My course partner and I decided to rebel against the need to dress up like security guards during our CPL/ME/IR, so we purchased and wore the "security" epaulettes.
My course partner and I decided to rebel against the need to dress up like security guards during our CPL/ME/IR, so we purchased and wore the "security" epaulettes.
i have had the same experience in marks & spencer (wearing a blue pilots shirt). i was waiting for my girl-friend to come out of the shop (i was waiting by the main entrance) and an old lady said to me "your not doing a very good job as a security guard by looking at your phone",
at that point i burst out laughing and she said she was going to make a complaint about me, so i had to tell her who i was and what i was doing>>> 
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I have a set of four gold bars somewhere that I use in places like Africa to get through customs and all the other crap that is necessary to get past bureaucracy.
However once I get done with that I take them off and put them back in my flight case.
I would feel like a real w a n k e r wearing them in public.
However once I get done with that I take them off and put them back in my flight case.
I would feel like a real w a n k e r wearing them in public.
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Originally Posted by bose-x
Which service did you earn your commission in?
Originally Posted by bose-x
Well I have a full RAF Commission (Ret'd), and one of the new fandango CPL/IR thingies.....
I see nothing wrong with a PPL wearing as many gold bars as they please, although I thing it looks damn stupid as they climb from a 152
Fortunately, neither you nor I are in charge of the world; so our opinions are no more and no less valid than anyone else's.
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Err ... thanks.
And thanks Flash, for your kind offer. There's a chance that a squadron may be moving to our favourite airfield, which would mean less of your drinking time taken up in travelling. You heard it here first!
And thanks Flash, for your kind offer. There's a chance that a squadron may be moving to our favourite airfield, which would mean less of your drinking time taken up in travelling. You heard it here first!
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No Need!!!!!
I have a lovely lovely strip 2 miles down the road so if they do go to " Tussauds from hell" its of no consequence.
As for a hair cut........
f
Edit to realise in the early light of day you said "a" and not "the" It would be good for the place to have some life in it tho..........
I have a lovely lovely strip 2 miles down the road so if they do go to " Tussauds from hell" its of no consequence.
As for a hair cut........
f
Edit to realise in the early light of day you said "a" and not "the" It would be good for the place to have some life in it tho..........
Last edited by Flash0710; 25th Aug 2006 at 09:15.
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When i used to be a chock i mean Air Cadet i used to have my hair undercut and then just shoved it all under the beret. Got rumbled as i was the only Cadet who never took his beret off on parade nights....
f
f
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Originally Posted by Windy Militant
The best thing to wear is that wry little smile that you just can't stop creeping onto your face from time to time when the realisation of what you've done slides gently into your brain.
I couldn't agree more, very well put.
I have, just two days ago passed my PPL and I consider it to be one of the most incredible things I have ever tried to do and I can't help feeling warm inside everytime I think of the examiners words when he let me know I had passed the Skills test! "Ok CAPTAIN, lets go home" Nuff said!
What a great day! But it would be fun to wear some bars for a while too! DOH! just to let people know how hard you worked to get it!
Last edited by Godgetswings; 26th Aug 2006 at 18:44.