Epaulettes

[S-Works]

I think you will find she may well have been Mr Vice and therefore a certain expectation of a uniform..............

[9238RJ98]

Oh, how I've giggled through this.

[MLS-12D]

Originally Posted by bose-x

I think you will find she may well have been Mr Vice and therefore a certain expectation of a uniform..............

RAFVR(T) members attending mess dinners are permitted to wear No.1 service dress with white shirt and bow ties / neck tabs. There is no requirement to purchase or own No.5 mess dress.

[S-Works]

Well having only been the "real" thing I am uncertain on RAF VRT etiquette but I see no harm in it.

Was your point to humiliate her for taking an active role?

[MLS-12D]

Nope. I'm not interested in humiliating anyone.

As I said in my previous posts, if someone wishes to wear military trappings (mess kit, epaulettes, ceremonial daggers, whatever), it's entirely harmless. Some people may laugh (make that will laugh), but so what. Like the Rick Nelson song "Garden Party" says, you can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself.

[Flash0710]

Originally Posted by MLS-12D

Nope. I'm not interested in humiliating anyone.
As I said in my previous posts, if someone wishes to wear military trappings (mess kit, epaulettes, ceremonial daggers, whatever), it's entirely harmless. Some people may laugh (make that will laugh), but so what. Like the Rick Nelson song "Garden Party" says, you can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself.

hmm self pleasure.......

[AerBabe]

Originally Posted by MLS-12D

Good analogy. Mess dress on a cadet leader is very similar to epaulettes on a PPL: pretentious, but perfectly 'legal'. And both affectations are quite harmless.

I think you misunderstood. The reason many female RAFVR(T) officers and NCOs wear evening dress rather than Mess Dress is because they don't like the Mess Dress. Nothing to do with feeling pretentious in it.

Yes I was Mr Vice, did think it was a good idea to wear Mess Dress for the occasion, and will continue to do so. I worked hard as a Civilian Instructor, worked hard to get my commission and continue to work hard as an officer. I wear my uniform with pride.

[S-Works]

Originally Posted by AerBabe

I think you misunderstood. The reason many female RAFVR(T) officers and NCOs wear evening dress rather than Mess Dress is because they don't like the Mess Dress. Nothing to do with feeling pretentious in it.
Yes I was Mr Vice, did think it was a good idea to wear Mess Dress for the occasion, and will continue to do so. I worked hard as a Civilian Instructor, worked hard to get my commission and continue to work hard as an officer. I wear my uniform with pride.

Good on you aerbabe.

There is a big difference between earning a commission VRT or Regular and bunging some gold bars bars on a shirt. My mum still has my commission hanging on the wall and I left 12yrs ago!

I am glad that you are proud to be putting something into society which is probably more than can be said of some of the snipers. Enjoy.

[AerBabe]

Aww, shucks.

My mum doesn't have my commission on the wall ... 'Cos it still hasn't come!
(She does have copies of my Cranwell group photos though.)

[Genghis the Engineer]

The 5-gold bars are sold I think by AFE, to allow people who are forced to wear white shirts and appaulettes to extract the urine about it.


I once helped somebody ferry an Islander back to Bembridge from Bucharest - I was along as flight test engineer, the pilot was a chap well known in GA circles, but also Chief Test Pilot at Britten-Norman. Given that the aeroplane was just out of the works, draughty, full of sharp bits (no trim fitted yet) and not all that clean, I wore an old RAF flying suit. Perfectly serviceable (and at FL120 over transylvania, my Irvin was great as well). My colleague on the other hand wore a white shirt and gold bars - it was very very noticeable how much more assistance and help he got from the various airport officials as we stopped en-route across Europe.

So, they have their place.....


But not for PPL club flying.

G

[rodthesod]

Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer

My colleague on the other hand wore a white shirt and gold bars - it was very very noticeable how much more assistance and help he got from the various airport officials as we stopped en-route across Europe.

So, they have their place.....


But not for PPL club flying.

G

I agree entirely with GTE. We used 4 bars on our Rothman's flying overalls on occasions to ease our passage through certain airports and past certain officials. As an airline captain I had to wear the bars and again they were almost as valuable as passports when faced with officialdom. I always removed mine outside of the airport or whenever travelling as pax with any airline including my own.
On the other hand, you could supplement your bars with a forged licence and logbook and con your way into a 747 command with BA or AA - it seems to have been done before.
rts

[Wrong Stuff]

Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer

My colleague on the other hand wore a white shirt and gold bars - it was very very noticeable how much more assistance and help he got from the various airport officials as we stopped en-route across Europe.

So, they have their place.....

I was talking to someone the other day who'd done a lot of flying around North Africa and one of his recommendations was to wear gold bars. He found it made a substantial difference to the way he was treated. In retrospect it probably would have saved me a grilling from immigration about aircraft ownership and my finances when I stopped in Tunis. Nevertheless, it still seems a little strange to wear them in a SEP.

[Gunner82]

Epauletts?

Did see a chap in bone dome and Crab baby grow in a 172 at Duxford crowd very impressed. Have memories of a subbie who had rather a fine view of his single pip and all the power attached , taken out by the Sgts. Mess for the evening in Hamburg, came back with tattooed pips and a dreadful hangover.

Old Gunners Never Die They Just Drop Shorter

[phillpot]

Ive just read through this post and it reminds me of something that happened to me a couple of years ago.

I quite often do a/c deliveries and ferry flights moving the little puddle jumpers around between flying schools and engineers etc, this particular evening a Warrior had just had its 100hr and needed to go to it home airfield I was given a call and asked if I could go up in an Arrow and pick up the guy delivering it I turned up to the airfield in jeans and a polo shirt smart casual if you wish, when I got there I had to wait for the other pilot and wait and wait and wait by now time was becoming an issue we were going to a grass strip and dusk was rapidly approaching.

Eventually epaulette boy (as I fondly named him) turned up in full uniform we didnt speak before the delivery but on the way back I asked
"who do you fly for?"
"no one " came the reply
"oh its just I saw the uniform" I said
"Its cost me alot of time and money to get this licence and I want something to show for it"
still giving him the benefit of doubt I asked if he had been flying elsewhere earlier his reply came
"no I was mowing the lawn when to call came"
he had changed especially to carry out a 20 min ga flight making us late in the process I found it very hard not to take the p***s but decided not to.
To refer to the original postee well done for getting your PPL please please dont wear epaulettes get your respect and reconition from becoming a safe and competent pilot and not by wearing accessories.

[MLS-12D]

Sigh ... I'll try again.
I do not believe that RAFVR(T) members are bad people, or that they have anything to be ashamed of. They help children learn about flying and the military, and I'm all for that.
I suspect that most people would agree with the following propositions:
(1) a PPL has a pilot license, but nowhere near the amount of knowledge, skill and experience as that of an ATPL;
(2) an RAFVR(T) member has a commission, but nowhere near the amount of knowledge, skill and experience as that of an RAF or RAuxAF officer.
There is an apparent double standard between an RAFVR(T) member wearing mess kit - which people seem to think shows commendable enthusiasm - and a PPL who wishes to wear eppaulettes - which people seem to think is completely beyond the pale. Personally, I think that both are rather pretentious, but (as I've said repeatedly) harmless ... anyone who wants to do either won't get an argument from me.

[S-Works]

<<There is an apparent double standard between an RAFVR(T) member wearing mess kit - which people seem to think shows commendable enthusiasm - and a PPL who wishes to wear eppaulettes - which people seem to think is completely beyond the pale. Personally, I think that both are rather pretentious, but (as I've said repeatedly) harmless ... anyone who wants to do either won't get an argument from me.>>

But we do seem to be getting a lot of repeat arguments from you on this.....

Which service did you earn your commission in?

Well I have a full RAF Commission (Ret'd), and one of the new fandango CPL/IR thingies and don't see any double standards in someone who gives of there time and energies to support the youth of today and hopefully help keep them off the street away from murdering children and taking drugs, wearing the mess dress or any other form of dress they are perfectly entitled to.

I see nothing wrong with a PPL wearing as many gold bars as they please allthough I thing it looks damn stupid as they climb from a 152 .....

[Genghis the Engineer]

To my amusement, I just noticed the following banner advertisement had appeared at the top of the page...

Parking Attendant Uniform
Huge Range - Uniforms & Accessories Request our comprehensive brochure

Interesting what happens when you start talking about a subject!

G

[AerBabe]

Originally Posted by MLS-12D

(2) an RAFVR(T) member has a commission, but nowhere near the amount of knowledge, skill and experience as that of an RAF or RAuxAF officer.

Maybe not ... but it's interesting when you talk to regulars that most of them say they couldn't do what we do. At the end of the day, I'm a commissioned officer, same as them.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by AerBabe

Maybe not ... but it's interesting when you talk to regulars that most of them say they couldn't do what we do. At the end of the day, I'm a commissioned officer, same as them.

You are trained to do your job, they're trained to do theirs. One hopes that there's sufficient mutual respect that everybody recognises that - if there isn't, something's wrong.

G

[AerBabe]

You do occasionally come across a regular who snubbs you, refuses to salute etc. However, that is very very rare and most are kind, helpful and professional.
Similarly, I've dealt with VR(T) officers who need a good 'talking to'.