WARNING. UK PPL,s with 5 year expiry
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Norfolk
WARNING. UK PPL,s with 5 year expiry
Anyone who has a UK (as opposed to a JAR) PPL or PPL/H issued in the transition period to JAR licences after December 2000 should look at the period of validity. It appears that contrary to most peoples understanding, not all UK PPL's and PPL/H's are non expiring. UK Private Licences issued in this period have a 5 year validity just like JAR PPL's. I do not remember this being highlighted at the time.
When I came across the first guy who found he had an expired licence, I thought it was a CAA mistake. Now I have seen another one which had also expired, I checked with CAA PLD and indeed this was the policy apparently.
Personally, I think some one cranked a 5 year expiry into the computor at the head shed for all licences when JAR came in, forgetting the non expiring bit for UK Licences. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! Flying with an expired licence, even if inadvertently would not be good news.
When I came across the first guy who found he had an expired licence, I thought it was a CAA mistake. Now I have seen another one which had also expired, I checked with CAA PLD and indeed this was the policy apparently.
Personally, I think some one cranked a 5 year expiry into the computor at the head shed for all licences when JAR came in, forgetting the non expiring bit for UK Licences. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! Flying with an expired licence, even if inadvertently would not be good news.
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Surrey, England
Ole UK Licences
I recently underwent flight training to revalidate a UK licence that had expired in 1964. I went to Gatwick, expecting to have my UK licence merely renewed. Instead, they gave me a brand new JAA licence. subsequently, I have often wondered whether this was correct. Can anybody please advise?
Many thanks,
Broomstick.
Many thanks,
Broomstick.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 265
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From: Belgium
Broomstick
Much like you, in 2001 I renewed a long-expired UK PPL, which I had first obtained in 1966.
This was just about a year after the JAA PPL was introduced. I had to do refresher training, sit all exams and complete a flight test. At the end they gave me a JAA PPL. At the time, I was told they were no longer issuing bog standard UK PPLs (Note: this was before the NPPL).
GB
Much like you, in 2001 I renewed a long-expired UK PPL, which I had first obtained in 1966.
This was just about a year after the JAA PPL was introduced. I had to do refresher training, sit all exams and complete a flight test. At the end they gave me a JAA PPL. At the time, I was told they were no longer issuing bog standard UK PPLs (Note: this was before the NPPL).
GB
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
If, during the transition period, you paid the fee for a UK PPL, then you should have received a 'lifetime' PPL, not a JAA 5-year con trick.
See LASORS 2006 Section A6:
Licences issued in accordance with UK National arrangements will, where applicable, remain valid until their date of expiry and may be renewed after this date. The UK National Licence will continue to be available to those
who have previously held the licence. There is no necessity for UK national licence holders to convert to a JAR-FCL equivalent licence unless they wish to do so.
I'm sorely tempted to bin my JAR-FCL ATPL when it expires and renew my old R/BCPL which is a 10 year licence rather than a 5 year licence. Plus it will probably pi$$ off the Belgrano somewhat!
See LASORS 2006 Section A6:
Licences issued in accordance with UK National arrangements will, where applicable, remain valid until their date of expiry and may be renewed after this date. The UK National Licence will continue to be available to those
who have previously held the licence. There is no necessity for UK national licence holders to convert to a JAR-FCL equivalent licence unless they wish to do so.
I'm sorely tempted to bin my JAR-FCL ATPL when it expires and renew my old R/BCPL which is a 10 year licence rather than a 5 year licence. Plus it will probably pi$$ off the Belgrano somewhat!
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
I know people who've had problems in France with CAA licences too, when it came to trying to hnire aircraft. How do you get your licence "rendered valid"?
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Delving into JAR a bit more it appears that they only cater for licences issued by non-JAA States to be rendered valid. If you have an ICAO compliant National Licence you have to convert it to a JAA one.
JAR-FCL 1005(b)
Haven't looked but imagine it's the same for helos.
Mike
JAR-FCL 1005(b)
(3) Holders of a licence issued in accordance with the national regulations of a JAA Member State before 1 July 1999 or in accordance with (b)(1) above, may apply to the State of licence issue for the issue of the equivalent licence specified in JAR–FCL 1 (Aeroplane) which extends the privileges to other States as set out in JAR–FCL 1.015(a)(1). For the issue of such licences, the holder shall meet the requirements set out in Appendix 1 to JAR–FCL 1.005.
Mike
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: UK
The difference between a JAA Licence and a UK Licence is one line of text. Many people think they have a JAA Licence when actually they have a UK National Licence, the format is exactly the same. You should not have a JAA Licence unless you applied for one.
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
If you have an ICAO compliant National Licence you have to convert it to a JAA one.
Not worried about helos; my helicopter licence is a JAA one anyway. But I'd like to keep my CAA PPL(A), but I might want to hire aircraft in France someday.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: South Norfolk, England
I didn't know that about foriegn hire ... I'm guessing that's a Euro thing and my old CAA non expiring licence would still be accepted in, say, the USA?
As for Europe, if you want a JAA licence I don't think you have to give up your old CAA one as I'm sure I heard you can hold both.
SS
As for Europe, if you want a JAA licence I don't think you have to give up your old CAA one as I'm sure I heard you can hold both.
SS
Joined: May 2006
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From: Sevenoaks
States was easy
Can't quote for post 9/11 but b4 it was just a matter of turning up at a FAA Transport Administration center (I did mine at Love Field Dallas), and Bobs your uncle.... however - dataprotection does not seem to worry the FAA as your details including home address is on a web site for all to see - hey what the... ,<break> My UK PPL (A) was initially issued in the interim period and continues to confuse everyone - even the CAA!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 731
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From: Surrey, England
Belated Thanks
Hi Guys,
I must apologise for not thanking before now those who responded to my request for advice.
It had slipped my mind, (I must be getting old).
So I hope you will now accept my belated thanks.
Thank you, one and all.
Broomstick.
I must apologise for not thanking before now those who responded to my request for advice.
It had slipped my mind, (I must be getting old).
So I hope you will now accept my belated thanks.
Thank you, one and all.
Broomstick.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,981
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From: He's on the limb to nowhere
Originally Posted by Dope
dataprotection does not seem to worry the FAA as your details including home address is on a web site for all to see - hey what the... ,<break>
