Aerobatic Experience
Fixed+Rotary (aircraft, not washing lines)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Peak District, Yorkshire, UK
Age: 56
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aerobatic Experience
Today I was planning to make use of the long weekend for some XC flying for no better reason than to do some flying.
Turned up at the school/club to find that aerobatics were on offer in 30min sessions. I signed up straight away.
A fantastic experience that I'd recommend to everyone. First time I've ever worn a parachute, followed by 60 seconds of induction training in use of said parachute
Up and away in a Slingsby Firefly 260. Incredible performance compared to a PA28 / DiamondStar / C172. I had control for the easiest 60 degree turns to get things started. Then loop the loop twice before I get to take control. Incredible fun and a real feel of the Gs (+3, -1.5).
On to aileron rolls. Oh dear. I didn't like these at all. Great to fly but they caused my ears and stomach to disengage
and it was time for some straight and level. A couple of minutes to recover then back into a few more steep level turns - so much easier in this aircraft.
Next onto a spin. I still wasn't feeling 100% but wanted to see what a spin was like, for future reference of course. So off we went. We didn't turn as fast as expected and I followed through on the controls. By now I was going green so didn't want to recover from one on my own and our time was almost up so we headed back to the field.
Although it made my head spin (literally) it was an amazing experience and one I'd recommed to anyone here who hasn't given it a try. I'm looking forwards to doing this again later in the summer and to try a spin recovery, another loop and perhaps a barrel roll.
Turned up at the school/club to find that aerobatics were on offer in 30min sessions. I signed up straight away.
A fantastic experience that I'd recommend to everyone. First time I've ever worn a parachute, followed by 60 seconds of induction training in use of said parachute
Up and away in a Slingsby Firefly 260. Incredible performance compared to a PA28 / DiamondStar / C172. I had control for the easiest 60 degree turns to get things started. Then loop the loop twice before I get to take control. Incredible fun and a real feel of the Gs (+3, -1.5).
On to aileron rolls. Oh dear. I didn't like these at all. Great to fly but they caused my ears and stomach to disengage
and it was time for some straight and level. A couple of minutes to recover then back into a few more steep level turns - so much easier in this aircraft.Next onto a spin. I still wasn't feeling 100% but wanted to see what a spin was like, for future reference of course. So off we went. We didn't turn as fast as expected and I followed through on the controls. By now I was going green so didn't want to recover from one on my own and our time was almost up so we headed back to the field.
Although it made my head spin (literally) it was an amazing experience and one I'd recommed to anyone here who hasn't given it a try. I'm looking forwards to doing this again later in the summer and to try a spin recovery, another loop and perhaps a barrel roll.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Down South, preferably inverted
Posts: 235
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe every word you say. I started flying because of an addiction caused by having 2 half hour aerobatic trial lessons, before joining the flying club and 2 half hour sessions as soon as I joined the club.
Even asked the aero's instructor if he'd ever had an aero's student who didn't know how to fly ('cos I couldn't...then). Obviously his answer was "no". So asked if he wanted one - obviously answer was "yes".
We then proceeded to have two 35 minute sessions of PPL lessons 4 -10 (not to the same level of proficiency as PPL) so that I could understand the 'planes controls - even landed the plane!*!*!
Luckily, my instructor is qualified to teach both.... - started PPL - therefore, I don't even have to switch instructors.
Only problem I've had is that, said instructor, is an extremely laid back grown up little boy with aero's (quite playful - flips in the "odd" Humpty bump to try and throw you - but it doesn't scare me!!!), but he's a strict examiner type in Flat.
Caused us to butt heads a bit at the beginning 'cos he didn't think I was serious about learning to fly when I was always cracking jokes but I think he's starting to understand me better now.
Have since been hooked to any and all types of flying in whatever plane is available whether right way up or upside down - only 14 1/2 hours in the bag (3 are aeros).
If weather ok next weekend I'm due to have a 2 hour session of Flat (circuits) and a 2 hour session of "Spinning" - parachutes, 10,000ft and throw ourselves at the ground.
Wonder which you think I'm most looking forward too???
Ain't life great????
Even asked the aero's instructor if he'd ever had an aero's student who didn't know how to fly ('cos I couldn't...then). Obviously his answer was "no". So asked if he wanted one - obviously answer was "yes".
We then proceeded to have two 35 minute sessions of PPL lessons 4 -10 (not to the same level of proficiency as PPL) so that I could understand the 'planes controls - even landed the plane!*!*!
Luckily, my instructor is qualified to teach both.... - started PPL - therefore, I don't even have to switch instructors.
Only problem I've had is that, said instructor, is an extremely laid back grown up little boy with aero's (quite playful - flips in the "odd" Humpty bump to try and throw you - but it doesn't scare me!!!), but he's a strict examiner type in Flat.
Caused us to butt heads a bit at the beginning 'cos he didn't think I was serious about learning to fly when I was always cracking jokes but I think he's starting to understand me better now.
Have since been hooked to any and all types of flying in whatever plane is available whether right way up or upside down - only 14 1/2 hours in the bag (3 are aeros).
If weather ok next weekend I'm due to have a 2 hour session of Flat (circuits) and a 2 hour session of "Spinning" - parachutes, 10,000ft and throw ourselves at the ground.
Wonder which you think I'm most looking forward too???
Ain't life great????
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have done aeros once and loved every min of it. I always remember the grin factor afterwards lasted for ages.
Check out this post and the pictures in the contained link........
Check out this post and the pictures in the contained link........
Fixed+Rotary (aircraft, not washing lines)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Peak District, Yorkshire, UK
Age: 56
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BRL / Mad Girl
Great comments, and BRL, your thread starter matches mine quite well, yes I'm still grinning.
The loop was fantastic. 130kts, pull back the stick and aim for the sun. Higher and higher into the deep blue sky. Blue is all I see. Feel the G in my belly. Airspeed plummeting towards zero. AI to keep level. Then all of a sudden clouds appear at the top of my field of vision, then green fields and before I know it I'm heading straight down. Keep pulling back on the stick. Airspeed shooting upwards. Feel the G again. Fantastic. Shall we do it again?
Great comments, and BRL, your thread starter matches mine quite well, yes I'm still grinning.
The loop was fantastic. 130kts, pull back the stick and aim for the sun. Higher and higher into the deep blue sky. Blue is all I see. Feel the G in my belly. Airspeed plummeting towards zero. AI to keep level. Then all of a sudden clouds appear at the top of my field of vision, then green fields and before I know it I'm heading straight down. Keep pulling back on the stick. Airspeed shooting upwards. Feel the G again. Fantastic. Shall we do it again?
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Down South, preferably inverted
Posts: 235
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can do aileron rolls now - left & right.
My loop got a "Bloody good loop" from my instructor - strong praise indeed (over a month ago and still remember as if it was yesterday)!!!
Barrell rolls need improvement.
Wingovers are simply to explain but hard as hell to do with precision.
May be doing Stall turns next (after the spins - PPL). (vertically up, sideways roll in the vertical axis - lots of rudder and opposite aileron and vertically towards the ground).
My original adrenaline high lasted 4 days - any wonder I'm hooked???
Strongly suggest you go again and get them to do Stall turns and Humpty bumps (this is a vertically up and "over the top" of a loop before coming vertically down - lots of negative "G" - but great fun).
Depending how well you fly (me - badly!!) - getting them to do it is almost more fun, as they can control the plane and you just get the rush.
My loop got a "Bloody good loop" from my instructor - strong praise indeed (over a month ago and still remember as if it was yesterday)!!!
Barrell rolls need improvement.
Wingovers are simply to explain but hard as hell to do with precision.
May be doing Stall turns next (after the spins - PPL). (vertically up, sideways roll in the vertical axis - lots of rudder and opposite aileron and vertically towards the ground).
My original adrenaline high lasted 4 days - any wonder I'm hooked???
Strongly suggest you go again and get them to do Stall turns and Humpty bumps (this is a vertically up and "over the top" of a loop before coming vertically down - lots of negative "G" - but great fun).
Depending how well you fly (me - badly!!) - getting them to do it is almost more fun, as they can control the plane and you just get the rush.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: beverley
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had my first aeros experience with me at the helm this week,with none other than Tom Cassells in the RHS! All part of the aerobatic scholarship mentioned on these very pages.
I had done some aeros many moons ago as an air cadet in a chippie and a bulldog never at the helm though???
I loved it,the loops,stall turns and cubans I did turned out ok (I thought!)
As mentioned by MyData The spins turned me a slightly different shade! Nice to do though,as the recovery was a lot easier in practice than people make it out to be.
Regardless of what happens with the scholarship,I will be taking up aeros with the intention of competing but also scaring my friends!
I had done some aeros many moons ago as an air cadet in a chippie and a bulldog never at the helm though???
I loved it,the loops,stall turns and cubans I did turned out ok (I thought!)
As mentioned by MyData The spins turned me a slightly different shade! Nice to do though,as the recovery was a lot easier in practice than people make it out to be.
Regardless of what happens with the scholarship,I will be taking up aeros with the intention of competing but also scaring my friends!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Best place for aeros
hi all
Plan to do weeks course this summer on aerobatics - considering the aopa course as it covers all the basic aerobatic manouvers and then teaches how to string them all together - about 8 hours flying + 8 hours ground school
However open to any suggestions - what I would like to know - is have you recommendations on where to go - currently looking at Kemble and Stapleford
Any suggestions much appreciated
Best cheer
neil
Plan to do weeks course this summer on aerobatics - considering the aopa course as it covers all the basic aerobatic manouvers and then teaches how to string them all together - about 8 hours flying + 8 hours ground school
However open to any suggestions - what I would like to know - is have you recommendations on where to go - currently looking at Kemble and Stapleford
Any suggestions much appreciated
Best cheer
neil
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aeros
I suggest that you keen young bunnies get yourselves along to a British Aerobatic Association (BAeA)competition this summer and see what fun you can have.
http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/sites/events-info.htm
The BAeA have a list of buddies on their site, too and if you were to contact one before you attended they'd show you around, introduce you to the players and generally explain how things work.
MadGirl - there are several different flavours of humpties; you have described a pull push pull humpty but you can have pull pull pull, pull push push, push pull push, etc, etc!
The secret is not to get too slow at the top - 85/90mph is about right in the Pitts, any slower and it is liable to start torqueing off the top and you'd end up downhill on the wrong heading!
Stik
http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/sites/events-info.htm
The BAeA have a list of buddies on their site, too and if you were to contact one before you attended they'd show you around, introduce you to the players and generally explain how things work.
MadGirl - there are several different flavours of humpties; you have described a pull push pull humpty but you can have pull pull pull, pull push push, push pull push, etc, etc!
The secret is not to get too slow at the top - 85/90mph is about right in the Pitts, any slower and it is liable to start torqueing off the top and you'd end up downhill on the wrong heading!
Stik
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Down South, preferably inverted
Posts: 235
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by stiknruda
I suggest that you keen young bunnies get yourselves along to a British Aerobatic Association (BAeA)competition this summer and see what fun you can have.
MadGirl - there are several different flavours of humpties; you have described a pull push pull humpty but you can have pull pull pull, pull push push, push pull push, etc, etc!
Stik
MadGirl - there are several different flavours of humpties; you have described a pull push pull humpty but you can have pull pull pull, pull push push, push pull push, etc, etc!
Stik
As for Humpties..... 14 1/2 flying hours ago I hadn't even been in a light aircraft before - sorry!!!
3 Aero's hours hasn't given me the chance to learn the differences in techniques as I'm still at the stage where I get ridiculously pleased when I get a compliment from my Aero's (& PPL) instructor.
One day I'll grow up (43 yr old novice pilot) and be up with you guys but I've got to learn to fly first.
Fixed+Rotary (aircraft, not washing lines)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Peak District, Yorkshire, UK
Age: 56
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helpmeplease asked
I'd suggest following the link posted by stiknruda. Then getting in touch with your local airfields / flying schools and asking if or when they might have an aerobatics instructor available. For me I was just in the right place at the right time on Monday, but now I know these things go on I'll keep an eye out and sign up for the next session when it comes around.
How do you get into Aero's
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norfolk UK
Age: 81
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am grateful to stik,who gave me my first experience of aero's last year,we went through most of his competition display procedure plus a spin and luckily I felt OK all the way through,but slightly disoriented the next day!
My next challenge is the tail wheel conversion then I can fly the Cub and Chipmunk.
I think I will try an Aero course at Old Buckenham in the Slingsby sometime in the future, to gain experience of handling aircraft in unusual positions!
Lister .
My next challenge is the tail wheel conversion then I can fly the Cub and Chipmunk.
I think I will try an Aero course at Old Buckenham in the Slingsby sometime in the future, to gain experience of handling aircraft in unusual positions!
Lister
.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lister, I'm sure that the disorientation came from the contents of the few bottles we knocked back afterwards
What most newby aerobats find after doing quite a lengthy session is that they can not believe how fatigued they are later that day - however if you consider that most folk spend all their lives "suffering" 1G, a departure from that by as much as 6G (say -1 to +5) is really quite draining. Negative one when inverted straight and level and positive five when they try and pull the wings off during their first 'hands-on' loop.
MadG - you may very well find me at Leicester, PM me if you are going and I'll intro you to the great unwashed. As for the humpty lesson, I certainly wasn't being pedantic - just trying to broaden your knowledge
Helpmepse - you asked,
. The problem really is that once you are into them, it is very hard to get out! 
Let me know where you are based and I'll see if I can help.
Stik
What most newby aerobats find after doing quite a lengthy session is that they can not believe how fatigued they are later that day - however if you consider that most folk spend all their lives "suffering" 1G, a departure from that by as much as 6G (say -1 to +5) is really quite draining. Negative one when inverted straight and level and positive five when they try and pull the wings off during their first 'hands-on' loop.MadG - you may very well find me at Leicester, PM me if you are going and I'll intro you to the great unwashed. As for the humpty lesson, I certainly wasn't being pedantic - just trying to broaden your knowledge
Helpmepse - you asked,
How do you get into Aero's
Let me know where you are based and I'll see if I can help.Stik
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK, right of centre
Age: 52
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aeros is a great idea. As an instructor in both i find that even at low hours a student can benefit all round in aircraft handling. You can certainly develop a "feel" for the aircraft quicker and so aeros will help in your PPL course. Understanding the aircrafts envelope and not being afraid that it will fall out of the sky if you turn at an AOB of more than 15 degrees has helped several of our more 'nervous' students.
Enjoy guys!
KK
Enjoy guys!
KK
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Reading
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've also been considering doing some tailwheel & aero flying this summer.
Having spoken to a number of schools, I'm a bit confused whether to go for an AOPA course or a standard courses.
They both seem to fit the bill & (of course) recommend whatever they're offering.
Does anyone have any suggestions or advice please?
Martin
Having spoken to a number of schools, I'm a bit confused whether to go for an AOPA course or a standard courses.
They both seem to fit the bill & (of course) recommend whatever they're offering.
Does anyone have any suggestions or advice please?
Martin
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Martin,
AFAIK - the AOPA course is structured to give you so many hours of aeros instruction and during that time you will be demonstrated and then expected to fly the aerobatic building blocks, loops, rolls, stall turns, spins. All aerobatic maneouvers are composed of one or more of these.
At the end of the course you receive an AOPA certificate.
A standard aeros course is just the same as the above but you choose how many hours you want to fly for, once you are competent with the building blocks you have a greater say in which maneouvers you want to fly. You don't get an AOPA certificate. I tend to take aerobatic instruction each year to widen my reportoire and to make sure that I'm not doing anything unsafe.
So I guess that you take your choice!!
There is a vast difference between Sunday afternoon "drilling holes in the sky" and the rigourousness of competition aerobatics. Comp aeros are judged very much like figure skating or dressage - one starts each maneouver with a perfect 10 and each 5 degrees off heading (or vertical, horizontal, 45 up or down, erect or inverted) costs you half a point. A typical sequence has something between 9 and 12 maneouvers once you are no longer a "beginner". Beginners are expected to fly 4 or 5 but all categories are expected to complete the sequence in a square kikometre of airspace. The bottom of the box is 1500' for beginners and 1000' for the next two higher categories, after this at Advanced it comes down to 660'.
MadGirl's aileron rolls and barell rolls DO NOT feature in competition flying. Axial (slow) rolls - which can be really fast - circa: 400degrees/sec with the right machine and flick rolls do feature, though.
It gets worse.... you are expected not only to fly the maneouvers in the correct sequence, you are penalised if you "insert" a maneouver and you receive zero if a maneouver is flown incorrectly or in the wrong direction. So if you fly a half Cuban (S&L, 5/8ths of a loop, inverted down 45, half roll, erect down 45) rather than a half reverse Cuban (up 45, half roll to inverted, 5/8ths ofa loop to S&L) you'll get zero, zip, nada!
If the sequence calls for you to do a vertical half roll on the way up a stall turn and a 1/4 roll on the way down, you'd better be bloody sure which way you need to roll on the down line or you will be 180 degrees out AND everything afterwards will receive a zero. Ie: instead of recovering from the stall turn downwind or away from the judging line, you recover upwind or towards the judges if cross box you have just forfeited your chances of scoring well.
Is it worth it? Oh yes, great fun, improves one's accuracy and a/c handling an awful lot and there are a fun bunch of girls and boys competing currently.
I don't have an AOPA certificate but I do have a bronze medal won at an International comp - and I'm bloody proud of it!
Stik
AFAIK - the AOPA course is structured to give you so many hours of aeros instruction and during that time you will be demonstrated and then expected to fly the aerobatic building blocks, loops, rolls, stall turns, spins. All aerobatic maneouvers are composed of one or more of these.
At the end of the course you receive an AOPA certificate.
A standard aeros course is just the same as the above but you choose how many hours you want to fly for, once you are competent with the building blocks you have a greater say in which maneouvers you want to fly. You don't get an AOPA certificate. I tend to take aerobatic instruction each year to widen my reportoire and to make sure that I'm not doing anything unsafe.
So I guess that you take your choice!!
There is a vast difference between Sunday afternoon "drilling holes in the sky" and the rigourousness of competition aerobatics. Comp aeros are judged very much like figure skating or dressage - one starts each maneouver with a perfect 10 and each 5 degrees off heading (or vertical, horizontal, 45 up or down, erect or inverted) costs you half a point. A typical sequence has something between 9 and 12 maneouvers once you are no longer a "beginner". Beginners are expected to fly 4 or 5 but all categories are expected to complete the sequence in a square kikometre of airspace. The bottom of the box is 1500' for beginners and 1000' for the next two higher categories, after this at Advanced it comes down to 660'.
MadGirl's aileron rolls and barell rolls DO NOT feature in competition flying. Axial (slow) rolls - which can be really fast - circa: 400degrees/sec with the right machine and flick rolls do feature, though.
It gets worse.... you are expected not only to fly the maneouvers in the correct sequence, you are penalised if you "insert" a maneouver and you receive zero if a maneouver is flown incorrectly or in the wrong direction. So if you fly a half Cuban (S&L, 5/8ths of a loop, inverted down 45, half roll, erect down 45) rather than a half reverse Cuban (up 45, half roll to inverted, 5/8ths ofa loop to S&L) you'll get zero, zip, nada!
If the sequence calls for you to do a vertical half roll on the way up a stall turn and a 1/4 roll on the way down, you'd better be bloody sure which way you need to roll on the down line or you will be 180 degrees out AND everything afterwards will receive a zero. Ie: instead of recovering from the stall turn downwind or away from the judging line, you recover upwind or towards the judges if cross box you have just forfeited your chances of scoring well.
Is it worth it? Oh yes, great fun, improves one's accuracy and a/c handling an awful lot and there are a fun bunch of girls and boys competing currently.
I don't have an AOPA certificate but I do have a bronze medal won at an International comp - and I'm bloody proud of it!
Stik
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oxford
Age: 38
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im on a UAS and during the famil flight we did a loop, (hadn't done aeros previously) I wasnt that keen on it. Then during the next lesson the instructor decides to pull a loop on me without me realising. Absolutly loved it the second time round!!! Still grin to high heaven when I think about it!
Can't wait to try and link some together!! Like I said I haven't done aeros before but the Grob seems a very capable aircraft in this respect!
The g's are nice, but I was wearing a pretty heavy helmet and I decided to look back just as we started to pull into the loop, I couldn't move my head for the whole loop!!!! But still it was a good view!
Can't wait to try and link some together!! Like I said I haven't done aeros before but the Grob seems a very capable aircraft in this respect!
The g's are nice, but I was wearing a pretty heavy helmet and I decided to look back just as we started to pull into the loop, I couldn't move my head for the whole loop!!!! But still it was a good view!