Aerobatic Experience
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Actually thoroughly enjoyed myself but was shaking like a leaf afterwards - relief of tension??
Hope you've stopped shaking....but I bet you're still grinning!!!
Beware, aerobatics is seriously addictive. As Stik says the question is not how you start doing aerobatics bit how you ever stop doing them. We have an 86 year old who competes regularly.
Hope you've stopped shaking....but I bet you're still grinning!!!
Beware, aerobatics is seriously addictive. As Stik says the question is not how you start doing aerobatics bit how you ever stop doing them. We have an 86 year old who competes regularly.
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Mad Girl - all good stuff. Keep at it.
Get the instructor to also familiarise you with stalls in a turn at different bank angles (30, 45, 60) and the AI and g implications (high speed stalling).
The application of this is not aerobatic per se but lack of understanding of it is a killer - eg forcing a too tight turn from base to final - good cross training.
"Falling leaf" manouvre is also VG rudder recovery practice in fully developed deep stall (you keep the stick fully back and the a/c in the stall during the entire manouvre.
Also some good reading in the following articles - all these are EAA publications. You can get them via the EAA website or contact EAA - nice people.
Sport Aerobatics 1994 - Aerobatics with Beggs (out spinning with Gene Beggs)
Sport Aviation nov 1985 - Spinning with the experts - Harold Holmes
Sport Aerobatics Feb 1985 - Spin Recovery Eric Muller
Sport Aviation Jan 1985 - More on Spins - Harold Holmes
Hope this is of interest. Good luck
Get the instructor to also familiarise you with stalls in a turn at different bank angles (30, 45, 60) and the AI and g implications (high speed stalling).
The application of this is not aerobatic per se but lack of understanding of it is a killer - eg forcing a too tight turn from base to final - good cross training.
"Falling leaf" manouvre is also VG rudder recovery practice in fully developed deep stall (you keep the stick fully back and the a/c in the stall during the entire manouvre.
Also some good reading in the following articles - all these are EAA publications. You can get them via the EAA website or contact EAA - nice people.
Sport Aerobatics 1994 - Aerobatics with Beggs (out spinning with Gene Beggs)
Sport Aviation nov 1985 - Spinning with the experts - Harold Holmes
Sport Aerobatics Feb 1985 - Spin Recovery Eric Muller
Sport Aviation Jan 1985 - More on Spins - Harold Holmes
Hope this is of interest. Good luck
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I did something VERY BAD!!!!!!....
My partner said that he wanted to see what it was all about as I've gone totally mad since taking up my Hobby!!!!!
I bought him a 1/2 hour trial aeros lesson for his birthday and said "Off you go - then you'll understand". He went off yesterday with my FI and came back grinning like a cheshire cat.
Now he knows!!! - can we afford 2 fliers in the family????
Hobby??? - more like Obsession!!!!!
My partner said that he wanted to see what it was all about as I've gone totally mad since taking up my Hobby!!!!!
I bought him a 1/2 hour trial aeros lesson for his birthday and said "Off you go - then you'll understand". He went off yesterday with my FI and came back grinning like a cheshire cat.
Now he knows!!! - can we afford 2 fliers in the family????
Hobby??? - more like Obsession!!!!!
Last edited by Mad Girl; 5th Jun 2006 at 07:17.
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A late entry in the spins/aeros discussion
Had my first lesson in spin recovery yesterday, and really enjoyed the subject being so clearly demystified. It took some nerve kicking that left rudder and flipping the plane upside down into the spin, but it was reassuring that the direction of spin was clear and the recovery straightforward.
Unfortunately after about 6-7 spins and a spiral dive I kind of lost interest in the exact details and will have to take up where I left off some other time, when I haven't had a curry the night before and milk at lunchtime...
Unfortunately after about 6-7 spins and a spiral dive I kind of lost interest in the exact details and will have to take up where I left off some other time, when I haven't had a curry the night before and milk at lunchtime...
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Stik et al, truly inspirational reading, I've only experienced 2 rolls and 2 spins so far (in an A152 at that), I'll be taking the best aero instruction I can buy after my PPL is complete, and get myself a share in an S2C if at at all possible! Thanks for the motivation 
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Confabulous.
Stik and his pals will be strutting their stuff at Waterford on July 22/23rd if you're anywhere close then drop over and enjoy yourself.
See
http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/sites/regwaterford06.htm
Stik and his pals will be strutting their stuff at Waterford on July 22/23rd if you're anywhere close then drop over and enjoy yourself.
See
http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/sites/regwaterford06.htm
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Looking to take the Yak out to the Waterford bash - I'd promised myself I'd do at least one competition in the tractor, and the prospect of going all that way bundled up in the Pitts doesn't appeal...any ideas of good places to stay?
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Originally Posted by eharding
...any ideas of good places to stay?
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Originally Posted by i.dingbat
It took some nerve kicking that left rudder and flipping the plane upside down into the spin,
Do enough spins and you won't be able to stop yourself as the inputs just become automatic! I took the Magnolia beauty up for a test flight the other day after some work at Stik's place and just went to do a straightforward stall. It took a concerted effort to keep my left heel on the floor and NOT kick it into a spin!!
I'm with Stik on the competition/DA debate. I haven't gotten my DA yet (two years of reliability and other issues getting in the way) but that is my goal for this year. Like Stik says, comp aeros gave my flying and learning purpose and direction. Otherwise it's too easy to go up and just waste your time tooling around without purpose and not improving your skills. Also comps teach things like positioning, wind correction, and how to manage your energy in a sequence of linked maneuvers. I'm not a competitive person by nature so comp aeros isn't really in my line of flying, but doing displays for an appreciative audience, and flying the airplane the way I want to fly it are, and that's all possible because of what I learned by doing comps and getting to know other Pitts pilots like Stik.
I think aerobatic pilots ought to consider doing at least one season relatively seriously because of what you learn from the experience. Well worth the time and effort.
Pitts2112
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Originally Posted by kluge
Fabulous thread - lots of good comments and advice in here.
To add my bit for the ab initio's:
1. Do it. - it will make you a safer, confident and more disciplined pilot.
2. Understand the concepts of rolling 'g' and why it is dangerous.
3. In reference to 2 make your pre-flight VERY thorough especially if you're hiring the a/c. You don't know what the previous renter did - eg check for wing skin rippling, or broken ribs if fabric covered.
4. Competitions will hone your flying and mental discipline skills
5. Don't ever attempt to teach yourself basic aeros. Get qualified instruction.
Soapbox mode off. Cleaed for finals.
To add my bit for the ab initio's:
1. Do it. - it will make you a safer, confident and more disciplined pilot.
2. Understand the concepts of rolling 'g' and why it is dangerous.
3. In reference to 2 make your pre-flight VERY thorough especially if you're hiring the a/c. You don't know what the previous renter did - eg check for wing skin rippling, or broken ribs if fabric covered.
4. Competitions will hone your flying and mental discipline skills
5. Don't ever attempt to teach yourself basic aeros. Get qualified instruction.
Soapbox mode off. Cleaed for finals.
One question tho', what's 'rolling g' mentioned by Kluge?
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MyData,
Great post! I can really relate to your excitement
I have recently completed my AOPA certificate with Luke at Cambridge in the T67 260M - Bloody marvellous fun, I enjoyed every minute of it. I was so hooked after completing the AOPA course that I asked if we could continue on to more 'advanced stuff'. After that there was no looking back!!! We did flicking, clovers, avalanches and lots of inverted stuff
I think what made this so rewarding was the emphasis throughout on safety and airmanship. I recommend any pilot who has an interest to try it out because you'll learn so much about the aircraft and what really makes you a good and confident pilot. Before I was just happy to be a pilot, but now I really feel like a flyer!
Hats off to the Luke and his crew over there because they have really re-ignited my interest in flying
Here's to many happy upside down hours!!!
AL
Great post! I can really relate to your excitement
I have recently completed my AOPA certificate with Luke at Cambridge in the T67 260M - Bloody marvellous fun, I enjoyed every minute of it. I was so hooked after completing the AOPA course that I asked if we could continue on to more 'advanced stuff'. After that there was no looking back!!! We did flicking, clovers, avalanches and lots of inverted stuff
I think what made this so rewarding was the emphasis throughout on safety and airmanship. I recommend any pilot who has an interest to try it out because you'll learn so much about the aircraft and what really makes you a good and confident pilot. Before I was just happy to be a pilot, but now I really feel like a flyer!
Hats off to the Luke and his crew over there because they have really re-ignited my interest in flying
Here's to many happy upside down hours!!!
AL
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Originally Posted by Cricket23
I've been reading this thread from the sidelines with interest as I hope to start aeros training soon.
One question tho', what's 'rolling g' mentioned by Kluge?
One question tho', what's 'rolling g' mentioned by Kluge?
Pitts2112
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Hi Guys
Do me a favour??? Please stay off the lingo unless you're prepared to explain the terms to us newbies.
I've got the explanation for rolling g's now (saves me from asking...) but what's a DA??
Some of us started doing basic aero's before we started to learn straight and level - it may be an unusual route but I doubt if I'm the only one.
Thanks
Do me a favour??? Please stay off the lingo unless you're prepared to explain the terms to us newbies.
I've got the explanation for rolling g's now (saves me from asking...) but what's a DA??
Some of us started doing basic aero's before we started to learn straight and level - it may be an unusual route but I doubt if I'm the only one.
Thanks
A little less conversation,
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My understanding of "Rolling G" as a practise to be discouraged is the agricultural combination of aileron-induced roll & pitch-induced G loading i.e. don't roll & pull (hard) at the same time - not good for the airframe.
"DA" in this context is a Display Authorisation - see CAP 403
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...e=detail&id=32
Ed.
"DA" in this context is a Display Authorisation - see CAP 403
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...e=detail&id=32
Ed.
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This is probably the best and most succinct definition of Rolling 'g' I have come across.
here is the thread: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=173720
My understanding is For Example, you do a 6+ gz from level to get a clean vertical, but initiate the roll *before* you achieve the vertical line, an inelegant example, however the same applies on vertical downline if you "hurry" the rolls, and watch the speedo, it's not good to be rolling and pulling out at the same time with speed in the yellow arc (or near vne) and having ground aversion.
Originally Posted by milt
Consider the case where you are doing a straight pull out close to or at the limiting g for the aircraft. That specified limiting g will have a margin of structural strength for safety. Then you apply aileron to roll. Immediately you begin to overload the wing with the extra lift produced by the down going aileron. In extreme cases the up going wing will overload to the structural limit and fail.
It's called a rolling pull out. Beware and avoid like the plague..
It's called a rolling pull out. Beware and avoid like the plague..
My understanding is For Example, you do a 6+ gz from level to get a clean vertical, but initiate the roll *before* you achieve the vertical line, an inelegant example, however the same applies on vertical downline if you "hurry" the rolls, and watch the speedo, it's not good to be rolling and pulling out at the same time with speed in the yellow arc (or near vne) and having ground aversion.
Last edited by 7gcbc; 5th Jul 2006 at 12:14.
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I know what you mean when you say it's addictive.
A few weeks ago I went to Headcorn to do a Tailwheel course & followed this by flights (as p1s ) in the Tiger Moth & aero's in a CAP-10.
I'm now desperately tring to find time to get back there & do some more spins (normal & inverted), loops & rolls.
And then loop the Tiger Moth.
ps. Didn't tell girlfriend of desent rate in a spin till after.
A few weeks ago I went to Headcorn to do a Tailwheel course & followed this by flights (as p1s
) in the Tiger Moth & aero's in a CAP-10. I'm now desperately tring to find time to get back there & do some more spins (normal & inverted), loops & rolls.
And then loop the Tiger Moth.
ps. Didn't tell girlfriend of desent rate in a spin till after.
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Originally Posted by 7gcbc
This is probably the best and most succinct definition of Rolling 'g' I have come across.
here is the thread: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=173720
My understanding is For Example, you do a 6+ gz from level to get a clean vertical, but initiate the roll *before* you achieve the vertical line, an inelegant example, however the same applies on vertical downline if you "hurry" the rolls, and watch the speedo, it's not good to be rolling and pulling out at the same time with speed in the yellow arc (or near vne) and having ground aversion.
here is the thread: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=173720
My understanding is For Example, you do a 6+ gz from level to get a clean vertical, but initiate the roll *before* you achieve the vertical line, an inelegant example, however the same applies on vertical downline if you "hurry" the rolls, and watch the speedo, it's not good to be rolling and pulling out at the same time with speed in the yellow arc (or near vne) and having ground aversion.
Pitts2112
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Originally Posted by Mad Girl
Hi Guys
Do me a favour??? Please stay off the lingo unless you're prepared to explain the terms to us newbies.
I've got the explanation for rolling g's now (saves me from asking...) but what's a DA??
Some of us started doing basic aero's before we started to learn straight and level - it may be an unusual route but I doubt if I'm the only one.
Thanks
Do me a favour??? Please stay off the lingo unless you're prepared to explain the terms to us newbies.
I've got the explanation for rolling g's now (saves me from asking...) but what's a DA??
Some of us started doing basic aero's before we started to learn straight and level - it may be an unusual route but I doubt if I'm the only one.
Thanks
Sorry about that. eHarding had the definition of DA correct. It's the approval you can get from the CAA to allow you to fly demonstrations for the public.
As for staying away from lingo, that's actually not as easy as it sounds. After a while, you forget what's specific lingo since it just becomes part of your normal speech patterns and conversation, but we'll try to remember. If anyone ever uses other jargon you don't get, just ask. We're more than happy to clarify and we all were newbies once!
By the way, I think your enthusiasm is great!
Pitts2112
