Aerobatics in Yorkshire
Who teaches aero's at Sherburn now? I started down the route of the Cap 10B, but nobody could teach me aero's in it. Never entertained the idea of trying in the Robins, so I went to FS in the end.
Stopped altogether now as I'm in a catch22 situation. Pay rental rates and fly, or stop flying and save up for a share/plane. Just be doing the minimum hours with an instructor now to retain my licence.
Stopped altogether now as I'm in a catch22 situation. Pay rental rates and fly, or stop flying and save up for a share/plane. Just be doing the minimum hours with an instructor now to retain my licence.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 61
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MikeeB
Who teaches aero's at Sherburn now? I started down the route of the Cap 10B, but nobody could teach me aero's in it. Never entertained the idea of trying in the Robins, so I went to FS in the end.
Stopped altogether now as I'm in a catch22 situation. Pay rental rates and fly, or stop flying and save up for a share/plane. Just be doing the minimum hours with an instructor now to retain my licence.
Stopped altogether now as I'm in a catch22 situation. Pay rental rates and fly, or stop flying and save up for a share/plane. Just be doing the minimum hours with an instructor now to retain my licence.
The pay-off between renting and buying depends on the number of hours you do each year. Typically, that's probably around 150-200 hours for a given type, so for an individual within a syndicate that's probably 35-50 hours. It'd be worth getting a spreadsheet together to calculate the relative merits of each approach. Even if you have to borrow the money for the syndicate share (at, say 7% of 5000 pounds, that's about 2 hours flying a year) it may be cheaper to do so and get into the syndicate rather than keep renting.
OTOH, if you are only doing 12-15 hours a year, buying in less likely to make sense. In which case look at taking a holiday in the US, Australia or NZ and flying a few hours for something much better, for less money....
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North Yorkshire UK
Age: 83
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Managed to get my hands on a Pitts S2C at Stewart Airshow in Florida a couple of years ago. I hadn't flown for about 28 years but did have around 40 hours on the old S2 and when I saw this Pitts taking 15 min flights for $120 I couldn't resist the temptation. I told the guy I hadn't flown for 28 years but had Pitts experience.Anyway, when we're mounted up he says 'You have control' and it remained that way until climb out when I expressed surprise at his confidence considering I hadn't flown for 28 years. 'I thought you said you'd been flying them FOR 28 years!' says the guy.
The old Pitts S2 stick had a slightly 'rubbery' feel like the old Lotus Elans. The C felt marvellous. Great prop and ailerons. 8 point rolls were a doddle. Instant recovery from accidental inverted spin. Time flew by. Suddenly felt extremely ill about three quarters of the way round a rolling circle so handed back control and let the guy take it home. Result was 40 mins S2C time for $120. Turns out the guy was a Pitts salesman - said I could have one for $325,000. Rather disappointed when I declined.
I suppose this just goes to show that old skills aren't forgotten. I actually think I flew better than I used to thanks to thousands of hours of computer flying with a full set of controls.
Who was 'the guy'? I forget the name but I think it was Mike someone. I've a photo of him (in the cap).
if anyone recognises him please post.
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~meditek2/3rd.jpg
The old Pitts S2 stick had a slightly 'rubbery' feel like the old Lotus Elans. The C felt marvellous. Great prop and ailerons. 8 point rolls were a doddle. Instant recovery from accidental inverted spin. Time flew by. Suddenly felt extremely ill about three quarters of the way round a rolling circle so handed back control and let the guy take it home. Result was 40 mins S2C time for $120. Turns out the guy was a Pitts salesman - said I could have one for $325,000. Rather disappointed when I declined.
I suppose this just goes to show that old skills aren't forgotten. I actually think I flew better than I used to thanks to thousands of hours of computer flying with a full set of controls.
Who was 'the guy'? I forget the name but I think it was Mike someone. I've a photo of him (in the cap).
if anyone recognises him please post.
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~meditek2/3rd.jpg
Last edited by meditek; 18th Jul 2006 at 12:54.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 61
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by meditek
Managed to get my hands on a Pitts S2C at Stewart Airshow in Florida a couple of years ago. The old Pitts S2 stick had a slightly 'rubbery' feel like the old Lotus Elans. The C felt marvellous. Great prop and ailerons. 8 point rolls were a doddle. Instant recovery from accidental inverted spin. Time flew by.
The Elan as I remember it had very crisp controls - gear change like a rifle bolt, steering that worked through telepathy - but the doughnuts in the half-shafts did have a bit of a rubbery feel which meant that acceleration from slow speed was a bit of a "kangaroo petrol" sensation.
Marriage and fatherhood means that my Lotus Elan days are fond memories only, but I'm lucky enough to fly and own an S-2C - which is every bit as good as you describe. Slow rolls (and therefore point rolls) are a lot easier when you have the control authority and harmonisation and the power that the Pitts offers. And it's marvellous being able to fly a sequence without worrying about height loss.. the more usual problem is busting out the top of the 4500' airspace ceiling when doing aeros above the field at 3000'...
Why did you give up flying for so long? I had a 13 year lapse until a friend took me up in his Sukhoi-29 from White Waltham, 10 years ago - then I knew I just had to get my licence back. And it's not as expensive as I remember - at least, her in Australia, it's not. Of course it's probably a bit more pricey oop north than it is here - you should come and try getting your hand in again.
Anyway, I'm glad to hear you liked the Pitts. Oh, and I can sell you a new S-2C for a bit over US$210k, or a used one for less than $160k, so I'm not surprised you turned him down, at that price. But let me know if you want another test flight - and I can probably arrange the licence requalification as part of the deal....!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North Yorkshire UK
Age: 83
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the kind offer but Aussieland is quite a long hop for this codger and, besides, much as I enjoyed getting my hand back in, I'll stick to safer territory. I do, however, envy all Pitts owners! If I had one there is no way I'd let anyone else loose in it. Group ownership gives me nightmares. Ever noticed how a member stops flying for a week or two if he thinks he's overstressed it!!!
I bought an Elan+2 kit when it first came out ('67-68??) . Kept blowing valves every 500 miles. Lotus couldn't sort it so I sold it at a profit. Handling was very precise 'cept when a wheel dropped off but it did have a cushioned rubber feel.
Far as flying is concerned, I packed in after an engine failure followed by someone brushing my canopy with a wheel on my 'get back up there and restore the nerve' flight (Chipmunk). In addition to which, most of the people who instructed me seemed to be getting killed (Neil Williams, Manx Kelly, Jane Whyham, Mike Terley). I thought, maybe, someone was trying to tell me something - third time 'lucky' eh! Later Marcus Edwards went followed by Pete Clark.
I bought an Elan+2 kit when it first came out ('67-68??) . Kept blowing valves every 500 miles. Lotus couldn't sort it so I sold it at a profit. Handling was very precise 'cept when a wheel dropped off but it did have a cushioned rubber feel.
Far as flying is concerned, I packed in after an engine failure followed by someone brushing my canopy with a wheel on my 'get back up there and restore the nerve' flight (Chipmunk). In addition to which, most of the people who instructed me seemed to be getting killed (Neil Williams, Manx Kelly, Jane Whyham, Mike Terley). I thought, maybe, someone was trying to tell me something - third time 'lucky' eh! Later Marcus Edwards went followed by Pete Clark.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 61
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, engine failures do tend to focus the mind. I had one in a Marchetti SF260 in 2000 and broke my back in the wheels up landing out of a low level turn. I was lying in the hospital after the subsequent operation to implant a meccano set's worth of titanium scaffolding when I saw some clips of the Reno air races. The nurse was going to switch it off to spare my feelings but I couldn't wait to get back up in the air. It took me 9 months to achieve it and I was a little nervous on the first few flights.
Also had another (partial) engine failure (in a Chippie) - one magneto started rotating in its mount like a hand whisk, leaving the engine very low on power and running like a cement mixer - but fortunately this was in the circuit just after pulling off power on downwind and I managed to roll it on with just enough power to taxi clear.
I still am a little nervous 5 years on, though it's now more like the nervousness one has getting ready to give a speech - and really only before start-up and take-off. But it helps makes me stay alert, especially in the circuit, and especially in the Pitts, where the challenge is when the newbies are doing low-level, slow, 5 mile downwinds and I'm doing 2m:15s circuits, staying fastish, highish and close-in and pretty much blind ahead. Certainly helps keep you focused...
I had my Elan for 2 years 1983-85. Probably the most fun car I've ever owned, though not the fastest relative to its peers - which honour probably lies with the Lotus Sunbeam I used to take out at Castle Combe on De Tomaso Drivers Club track days. I once held off a Ferrari Testarossa for the whole 6 laps, thanks to agility and good acceleration. Bit like the Pitts.
OTOH, with 260hp and 575kg, the Pitts is probably more like the Caterham 7 CSV 260 - same power to weight, very focused, really built for one purpose only. The Lotus Sunbeam had only 210hp but weighed almost a ton and was a bit stadgy by comparison.
Driving in Australia is a bit dull - despite running around in a fairly quick Subaru 3.0RB, I miss a fun car and some English country lanes - but the Pitts helps provide a bit of spice!
Also had another (partial) engine failure (in a Chippie) - one magneto started rotating in its mount like a hand whisk, leaving the engine very low on power and running like a cement mixer - but fortunately this was in the circuit just after pulling off power on downwind and I managed to roll it on with just enough power to taxi clear.
I still am a little nervous 5 years on, though it's now more like the nervousness one has getting ready to give a speech - and really only before start-up and take-off. But it helps makes me stay alert, especially in the circuit, and especially in the Pitts, where the challenge is when the newbies are doing low-level, slow, 5 mile downwinds and I'm doing 2m:15s circuits, staying fastish, highish and close-in and pretty much blind ahead. Certainly helps keep you focused...
I had my Elan for 2 years 1983-85. Probably the most fun car I've ever owned, though not the fastest relative to its peers - which honour probably lies with the Lotus Sunbeam I used to take out at Castle Combe on De Tomaso Drivers Club track days. I once held off a Ferrari Testarossa for the whole 6 laps, thanks to agility and good acceleration. Bit like the Pitts.
OTOH, with 260hp and 575kg, the Pitts is probably more like the Caterham 7 CSV 260 - same power to weight, very focused, really built for one purpose only. The Lotus Sunbeam had only 210hp but weighed almost a ton and was a bit stadgy by comparison.
Driving in Australia is a bit dull - despite running around in a fairly quick Subaru 3.0RB, I miss a fun car and some English country lanes - but the Pitts helps provide a bit of spice!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North Yorkshire UK
Age: 83
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by HappyJack260
Driving in Australia is a bit dull - despite running around in a fairly quick Subaru 3.0RB, I miss a fun car and some English country lanes - but the Pitts helps provide a bit of spice!
Never driven a Lotus Sunbeam. Had a Lotus Cortina for a short period but got fed up up with cracked rear axle casings. Did have a Sunbeam version of the Hillman Imp for a short period though. No weight on the front so braking on non-perfect surfaces was dodgy which resulted in it's elimination.
TightYorksherMan
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Peak District
Age: 41
Posts: 1,570
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you drop me a PM with your telephone number I can get your prices for the Slingsby at Sheffield City Airport, just off the M1 at Junction 33.
Jinkster
Jinkster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
aeros
Mark
Don't blame the poor old C150 Aerobat.
There is a many a good tune played on an old fiddle!
Well maybe thats stretching a point, but people have won aerobatic competitions flying Aerobats before today.
Similarly with Tipsy Nippers. The Nipper expert is Barry Smith, who makes a Nipper look very good. But he could fly a dustbin lid, and make THAT look good.
Full Sutton is where to go and see the Smith.
Even if you you do half as well as he does, you'll still be smiling.
Regarding control harmonisation, start with the Jungmann and work backwards from there for the rest.
Nothing flies better than a Bucker!
TTH
Don't blame the poor old C150 Aerobat.
There is a many a good tune played on an old fiddle!
Well maybe thats stretching a point, but people have won aerobatic competitions flying Aerobats before today.
Similarly with Tipsy Nippers. The Nipper expert is Barry Smith, who makes a Nipper look very good. But he could fly a dustbin lid, and make THAT look good.
Full Sutton is where to go and see the Smith.
Even if you you do half as well as he does, you'll still be smiling.
Regarding control harmonisation, start with the Jungmann and work backwards from there for the rest.
Nothing flies better than a Bucker!
TTH
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North Yorkshire UK
Age: 83
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Aerobat is one tough little plane. One arrived at the field when I was doing my PPL. I asked James 'Ginger' Lacey (dcd), my instructor, if he could show me some aeros in it. He started by half-rolling for a pull through at 5000' and around 100+ knots!! It went down like a brick built s... house. Through tunnel vision I saw VNE left for dead. We levelled out at about 300'. He must really have kept his cool during that dive but he never did any more aeros. We never discussed the episode.
Barry Smith, like Pete Clark, was a natural pilot from the day he first sat in a cockpit. Didn't know he was still active.
PS Them_thar - never flown a Bucker. Is there one in Yorkshire?
Barry Smith, like Pete Clark, was a natural pilot from the day he first sat in a cockpit. Didn't know he was still active.
PS Them_thar - never flown a Bucker. Is there one in Yorkshire?
Last edited by meditek; 19th Jul 2006 at 17:11.
