VFR flight that turns into IFR

[machlimter99]

What would you do if you booked out VFR and then flew most of the trip in IMC conditions? Would you tell ATC that you were now IFR??

[Farmer 1]

You should tell ATC that you are IMC.

[cblinton@blueyonder.]

If you hold an IMC rating you can tell ATC you are IFR because you are now flying using "Instrument Flight Rules" it makes no difference wether you are IMC or VMC.

[bookworm]

Would you tell ATC that you were now IFR??

Depends on which ATC you mean and what you want from them. Outside controlled airspace, it makes little difference enroute, provided the type of service provision (RAS/RIS/FIS) is clear. If you want an IFR arrival at your destination, you need to request it.

[BEagle]

"What would you do if you booked out VFR and then flew most of the trip in IMC conditions?"

Insufficient data. Which Class of airspace, which country, what pilot qualifications......

If you find that you are unable to maintain VMC, advise an appropriate ATCC in good time, then use the privileges of whatever instrument qualification you hold until you can regain VMC. Take a RAS if you're inexperienced, and follow ATC advice. Otherwise you may prefer to take a RIS if you're capable of flying, thinking and communicating simultaneously.

If you blunder into IMC without any qualifications - good luck. You'll certainly need it.

[bookworm]

What would you do if you booked out VFR and then flew most of the trip in IMC conditions? Would you tell ATC that you were now IFR??

The more pertinent question for those who operate two-ton aircraft is "would you tell Eurocontrol?".

[IO540]

The normal operating mode for GA private flights in the UK is to depart VFR, stay in Class G and fly in VMC or IMC as the stuff appears on-route, and arrive VFR or IFR as necessary.

There is no practical need to tell ATC of the actual conditions (VMC or IMC) unless receiving a radar service.

[DFC]

Tell ATS.

Not because you have to but because it is good Airmanship.

Stateside, pilots report lots of things in PIREPS and the availability of this information makes the system safer for those that use it.

Things like icing, turbulence, IMC when it is forecast VMC and VMC when it is forecast IMC should be passed on whenever possible because it helps other pilots make important safety related decisions.

I would not like to be the pilot who departed VFR enroute to X but encountered unexpected IMC downroute and used the good old IR to get out of trouble..........did not bother to tell anyone about the unforecast IMC conditions only to find out that an inexperienced PPL who departed VFR 1 hour after me on the same route crashed after a VMC into IMC mistake.

If things are not as expected tell people - it's good Airmanship

Regards,

DFC

[bookworm]

If things are not as expected tell people - it's good Airmanship

I agree with the principle. Is there a mechanism for the practical reuse of the information though? There's no pirep system in the UK. I've never heard ATC passing on such information except where it was explicitly requested (e.g. I've asked, or been asked, for info on the cloud tops).

[DFC]

There is the mechanism. However, the fragmented UK ATS service provision makes it difficult and it seems that most controllers ignore the requirement to pass pilot reports on.

For example report icing at level 50 to Brize and in my experience there is little or no chance that they will pass it on to anyone.

However, remember that pilots operating in that area could be talking to some 10 or more separate ATS units.

In the upper air, ride reports ie reports of turbulence or chop are passed on by ATC to following aircraft.

Many SIGMET reports are created as a result of pilot reports. Unfortunately in the UK very few if any pilot reports when operating in class G are passed on to the met office.

Just cause the ATS system does not do it's part there is no reason for pilots not to try their best to be helpful to other aviators.

I would prefer for an accident report to highlight ATS system failures than any airmanship failure on my part.

Regards,

DFC

[UL730]

Mr Bookworm

"would you tell Eurocontrol?".

When you are over 2 tons you develop this symbiotic relationship with NATS at Gatwick and report every flight. I have developed a simple Excel spreadsheet and fax them a copy of the salient details. VFR or IFR

One does not mess with Eurocontrol! They have a habit of charging every flight given the slightest opportunity. Irrespective, flights are automatically reported to NATS and Eurocontrol via ATC and trying to gain a Eurocontrol credit for an incorrectly billed flight - is pedantry incarnate. NATS can simplify the procedure and liase with Eurocontrol over raising the correct charge.

Now if one dips a tiny toe in cloud during the flight ... a rhetorical question..... I presume........

I have taken pireps from ATC - "aircraft passing your level reports severe icing/mountain wave/moderate chop" - several times. Manch are good at this and London Mil.
Now - doing something constructive with these reports is another question

[bookworm]

Just cause the ATS system does not do it's part there is no reason for pilots not to try their best to be helpful to other aviators.

I agree with the spirit, DFC, but there is a danger of creating so much noise that it defeats the object. In fact Rule 4 says:

Reporting hazardous conditions
4 The commander of an aircraft shall, on meeting with hazardous conditions in the course of a flight, or as soon as possible thereafter, send to the appropriate air traffic control unit by the quickest means available information containing such particulars of the hazardous conditions as may be pertinent to the safety of other aircraft.

It doesn't say "unexpected" though perhaps it should. I don't think IMC is in itself hazardous and I'm not sure that I'm qualified to say whether it is to be expected by another pilot.

(The original Q, BTW, didn't say that the conditions were unexpected, though it's a reasonable inferrence.)

[J430]

VFR into IMC

From what I see here, you guys suggest that you can fly in IMC in non controlled airspace with filing IFR??? Is this true???

If you are in IMC surely you must also be IFR regardless of radar coverage. You can not visually seperate if you can not see.

J

[Send Clowns]

You don't need to "file" at all if you are outside controlled airspace. I have flown an entire trip IFR, OUTCAS (apart from a little bit in Bournemouth zone, of course) but in VMC; most of the time I had FIS from London Information.

[J430]

What the?

So who seperates you when in IMC and stops you bumping into each other????

Over there there is less space between you than out here in OZ and I am pretty sure we don't do it?

J

[BEagle]

There is no mandatory requirement to obtain a radar service in IMC in the UK. But anyone electing to enter IMC without obtaining a RIS or RAS would be extremely foolhardy!

No matter what the law might be, our club Flying Order Book requires any pilot flying one of our aircraft in IMC outside CAS to be in receipt of a radar service.

[IO540]

But anyone electing to enter IMC without obtaining a RIS or RAS would be extremely foolhardy!

There is just about zero statistical support for that one.

As old wives tales go, it does survive amazingly well though!

I suppose your club flying order book also says that the MP must not exceed RPM/100