Old Chestnut - Renewal of SEP Type Rating
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Old Chestnut - Renewal of SEP Type Rating
OK, I know it's all been said before, but just wanted to check that I understood it right!
For a variety of domestic reasons, most significant being the arrival of BabyCB in Mar 04 (together with associated job moves and a house move from Scotland to Dorset), I am faced with one week before my PPL SEP Type Rating expires on 28 Aug 05. I have not flown since Mar 04.
I have been trying for months to get a spare few days in my calendar to fly a check ride and get the 12 hours logged and signed off. I now have to face the disappointment that in all reality, it ain't going to happen (particularly as elderly mother in law had a fall this weekend and has broken her elbow
). I could perhaps move heaven and earth, fly it off and get signed off - but I would not be a safe pilot.
I have read LASORS, which says:
Of course, JAR FCL1 is not readily available for viewing / download by mortals such as myself (such is the democracy which is the EU, but I digress 
), but I have found this at On Track Aviation.
This seems to indicate that I need to do another Skills Test (in years gone by, it was an LPC, but I believe that that has been expanded). In all reality, it seems fair enough - hopefully, I wouldn't have to spend much more than the 12 hours to lose the rough edges that will have developed in the 9 yrs since I got my licence (and flown around 200 hrs).
Anyone care to tell me that I should rush to do the 12 hrs or that I've totally misinterpreted LASORS? I know I've been a fool to get to this situation, but the only spare moments in my life in the last 15 months have been with me so stressed / exhausted that I would not have been wise to fly, anyway.
For a variety of domestic reasons, most significant being the arrival of BabyCB in Mar 04 (together with associated job moves and a house move from Scotland to Dorset), I am faced with one week before my PPL SEP Type Rating expires on 28 Aug 05. I have not flown since Mar 04.
I have been trying for months to get a spare few days in my calendar to fly a check ride and get the 12 hours logged and signed off. I now have to face the disappointment that in all reality, it ain't going to happen (particularly as elderly mother in law had a fall this weekend and has broken her elbow
). I could perhaps move heaven and earth, fly it off and get signed off - but I would not be a safe pilot.I have read LASORS, which says:
Where licence holders have been unable to renew a SEP (Land) or TMG Class Rating for a period not exceeding 5 years from the date of expiry, they will be required to complete the following requirements:
i) The CAA will require no mandatory additional training. Applicants should complete training at their own discretion sufficient to pass the Skill Test.
ii) Complete the Skill Test in accordance with Appendices 1 & 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240 with a JAR
Authorised Examiner. The renewal of an instrument rating, if held, should be combined with the Skill Test.
iii) Pass an oral theoretical knowledge examination conducted by the Examiner as part of the skill test.
i) The CAA will require no mandatory additional training. Applicants should complete training at their own discretion sufficient to pass the Skill Test.
ii) Complete the Skill Test in accordance with Appendices 1 & 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240 with a JAR
Authorised Examiner. The renewal of an instrument rating, if held, should be combined with the Skill Test.
iii) Pass an oral theoretical knowledge examination conducted by the Examiner as part of the skill test.
), but I have found this at On Track Aviation.This seems to indicate that I need to do another Skills Test (in years gone by, it was an LPC, but I believe that that has been expanded). In all reality, it seems fair enough - hopefully, I wouldn't have to spend much more than the 12 hours to lose the rough edges that will have developed in the 9 yrs since I got my licence (and flown around 200 hrs).
Anyone care to tell me that I should rush to do the 12 hrs or that I've totally misinterpreted LASORS? I know I've been a fool to get to this situation, but the only spare moments in my life in the last 15 months have been with me so stressed / exhausted that I would not have been wise to fly, anyway.
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As I understand it you can opt for a skills test with an instructor within 3 months of expiry of your certificate.
But you have to do this before the 25th August otherwise you need to do the other bits as well. It doesn't even have to be the 1 hour flight with an instructor - could be less
But you have to do this before the 25th August otherwise you need to do the other bits as well. It doesn't even have to be the 1 hour flight with an instructor - could be less
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You need to do a Skills Test with an examiner, and as you've understood yourself, there's no desperate rush. And even if you wanted to, I suspect that it would cost you more to do 12 hours flying plus an hour with an instructor before next week!!! So get some revision training and do the Skills Test when you can, and when it's a good time for you. 
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Yawn 
Good grief! How long must this subject be battered to death?
Revalidate by Experience (the 12 hour route with a dual instructor flight)
or
Revalidate by a Proficiency Check with an Examiner.
If the Class Rating has run out then you must Renew, not Revalidate.
Surely it's not THAT complicated? Is it?
Good grief! How long must this subject be battered to death?
Revalidate by Experience (the 12 hour route with a dual instructor flight)
or
Revalidate by a Proficiency Check with an Examiner.
If the Class Rating has run out then you must Renew, not Revalidate.
Surely it's not THAT complicated? Is it?
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Thrush - its a funny thing, if you know the answer the question is easy, and if we all knew the answers there would be no more questions and then there would be no more PPrune.
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 23rd Aug 2005 at 07:36.
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Fuji - very good point (but it does get frustrating - and I blame the flight schools as they are not training their students to be pilots, they're training them to get through a flight test).
Circuit Basher - let's have a word.
Single Pilot Aeroplane. Single Engine Piston (Land). It's called a CLASS rating - not a type rating. You can fly ANY type, make, model of aeroplane that has only one piston powered engine, only requires one pilot, and lands on land - not water. That is with the exception of the PA46 - the Piper Malibu (that DOES require a type rating).
Whilst on the subject, should you progress to get a "multi engine" rating - you will be entitled to fly ANY single pilot, multi engine, piston powered aircraft on the Multi Engine Piston CLASS rating.
ANY aircraft that has more than one pilot - and/or any aircraft that has turbine engines (either pure jet or turboprop) requires a specific type rating that is individual to that aircraft.
The LICENCE is irrelevant to this conversation - different subject. You must keep your licence valid by simply getting another one when the existing one runs out - just like a TV licence, a driving licence, a hunting licence, whatever.
Now - back to the class rating. Your situation, the SPA SEP(Land). You must have a current class rating (or type rating for the PA46) in your licence to fly any SEP.
The SEP class rating is valid from original issue for a period of 24 calendar months (to the date, not the month end). Your licence should have a page within it known as a JARFCL150, "Ratings - Certificate of Revalidation". It should have a "valid until" date written in column three. Your rating - in this case SEP(Land) - expires at midnight at the end of that date (28 August 2005). When you wake up on the 29th of August you cannot (legally) fly an SEP aircraft unless you take action before the current rating expires.
If you take the action, and have that page signed BEFORE midnight on the 28th, you are deemed to have REVALIDATED the (still current) rating. If you take the relevant action any time after midnight on the 28th, you are RENEWING an expired rating.
So what's the action? There are two ways you could revalidate an existing rating - either "BY EXPERIENCE" or by "FLIGHT TEST" (known as an LPC - Licensing Proficiency Check). I assume your rating was effectively signed on either August 29th for an initial issue, or August 28th for a previous revalidation of a current rating.
By Experience: Completely ignore any flying you did, in any aircraft type or class, before August 29th 2004 - I say again, August 28th Two Thousand and FOUR (last year). Too Tousand and Fower. Not a misprint. 2004.
SINCE August 28th 2004, you need to have 12 (twelve) hours TOTAL time as the pilot of SEP aircraft. At least 6 (six) of those hours must be in command - that gives you the other six to do anything you want with - dual, solo, captain, student, whatever.
6 command, 6 whatever. At least ONE flight of not less than 60 minutes of that 12 hours total must be with a fully qualified, fully rated, JAA flight instructor. That does NOT include an FAA instructor, at one of the Florida/California schools that has been teaching JAA. The instructor must have a current, full blown JAA instructor qualification (which should be entered on his/her own JARFCL150 form).
There is one opt out here - instead of the minimum 60 minutes flight with an instructor you can take ANY FIXED WING FLIGHT TEST. I said ANY. IMC rating, Multi Engine rating, Instrument rating, Boeing 747 type rating - anything - provided it is in a fixed wing aircraft. You still need 12 hours on SEP though - you can't have 11 hours on SEP and a Boeing 747 type rating.
During the total 12 hours of SEP flight you must carry out 12 take offs and, not surprisingly, 12 landings as the "handling pilot:.
There IS a suggested profile to that minimum 60 minute flight with the fully qualified JAA instructor - and BEagle (or similar) will tell you the AIC reference number. Don't just wander off on a cross sountry for the $100 Hamburger.
Get all that done before licence expiry date (midnight, date on JARFCL150 form) you must turn up to a JAA EXAMINER, NOT an instructor and have your JARFCL150 page signed. There are numerous types of EXAMINER that are approved to sign your revalidation - just ask the individual. NOTE!!!! You MUST have that revalidation signature BEFORE midnight on expiration date. Even if you can prove the 12 hours flown, all hurdles jumped, all i's dotted, all t's crossed it is ILLEGAL to sign the form and "backdate" it by even one day (or hour). Phew.
It's an odd situation but if you get those 12 hours AT ANY TIME during the 12 months from 28 August 2004, you can have your licence revalidated for 24 months from date of current expiry - so if you do the 12 hours on August 30th 2004 (for example) you can revalidate until August 28th 2007. SEVEN. 2007. 24 months from current expiry date. It does not say this in LASORS - it's in the "source document", JAR FCL 1.
The second option - instead of the 12 hours total is to opt for a Licensing Proficiency Check (LPC)
This is a flight test and, as such, must be flown with a current (check their JARFCL 150 form) flight examiner authorised to carry out LPC on SEP aircraft.
The flight has a minimum requirement - and can be found on Page 1 and 2 of this form Note that this form is used for a huge variety of flight and simulator tests - so some of the items may seem a bit strange. For example, landings are mandatory - but take-offs are optional. In an aircraft this is ridiculous - in a simulator it's no problem (just press the reset button).
On an LPC you are required, for SEP class ratings, to complete sections 1, 2, 3A, 4, and 5. The amount of "3A" that you require is at the discretion of the individual examiner.
Revalidation by LPC may be done at any time within the THREE MONTHS PRIOR to expiry in order to be extended to 24 months from current expiry date. Go figure. I don't make the rules - I'm just telling you them. BY experience, any time in the 12 months prior. By LPC any time within the 3 months before expiry.
Phew - again.
In the event that you do not get your JARFCL150 signed, by either method, before expiry then the only option available to you is to take the LPC with an examiner. Exactly the same flight as the revalidation option - but now known as a renewal. Same flight profile. Same.
The UK CAA will allow an examiner "in the field" to sign a Renewal at any time up to five years from rating expiry - so, for you, August 28th 2010. All you need (in law) is the LPC - but your chances of passing it, if you haven't flown for too long, is "reduced". Take some training - at the the recommendation of your (hours hungry?) instructor.
That all help? Maybe somebody else will post about renewal/revalidation of MEP (or I'll do it another day).
Enjoy the flying.
Circuit Basher - let's have a word.
Single Pilot Aeroplane. Single Engine Piston (Land). It's called a CLASS rating - not a type rating. You can fly ANY type, make, model of aeroplane that has only one piston powered engine, only requires one pilot, and lands on land - not water. That is with the exception of the PA46 - the Piper Malibu (that DOES require a type rating).
Whilst on the subject, should you progress to get a "multi engine" rating - you will be entitled to fly ANY single pilot, multi engine, piston powered aircraft on the Multi Engine Piston CLASS rating.
ANY aircraft that has more than one pilot - and/or any aircraft that has turbine engines (either pure jet or turboprop) requires a specific type rating that is individual to that aircraft.
The LICENCE is irrelevant to this conversation - different subject. You must keep your licence valid by simply getting another one when the existing one runs out - just like a TV licence, a driving licence, a hunting licence, whatever.
Now - back to the class rating. Your situation, the SPA SEP(Land). You must have a current class rating (or type rating for the PA46) in your licence to fly any SEP.
The SEP class rating is valid from original issue for a period of 24 calendar months (to the date, not the month end). Your licence should have a page within it known as a JARFCL150, "Ratings - Certificate of Revalidation". It should have a "valid until" date written in column three. Your rating - in this case SEP(Land) - expires at midnight at the end of that date (28 August 2005). When you wake up on the 29th of August you cannot (legally) fly an SEP aircraft unless you take action before the current rating expires.
If you take the action, and have that page signed BEFORE midnight on the 28th, you are deemed to have REVALIDATED the (still current) rating. If you take the relevant action any time after midnight on the 28th, you are RENEWING an expired rating.
So what's the action? There are two ways you could revalidate an existing rating - either "BY EXPERIENCE" or by "FLIGHT TEST" (known as an LPC - Licensing Proficiency Check). I assume your rating was effectively signed on either August 29th for an initial issue, or August 28th for a previous revalidation of a current rating.
By Experience: Completely ignore any flying you did, in any aircraft type or class, before August 29th 2004 - I say again, August 28th Two Thousand and FOUR (last year). Too Tousand and Fower. Not a misprint. 2004.
SINCE August 28th 2004, you need to have 12 (twelve) hours TOTAL time as the pilot of SEP aircraft. At least 6 (six) of those hours must be in command - that gives you the other six to do anything you want with - dual, solo, captain, student, whatever.
6 command, 6 whatever. At least ONE flight of not less than 60 minutes of that 12 hours total must be with a fully qualified, fully rated, JAA flight instructor. That does NOT include an FAA instructor, at one of the Florida/California schools that has been teaching JAA. The instructor must have a current, full blown JAA instructor qualification (which should be entered on his/her own JARFCL150 form).
There is one opt out here - instead of the minimum 60 minutes flight with an instructor you can take ANY FIXED WING FLIGHT TEST. I said ANY. IMC rating, Multi Engine rating, Instrument rating, Boeing 747 type rating - anything - provided it is in a fixed wing aircraft. You still need 12 hours on SEP though - you can't have 11 hours on SEP and a Boeing 747 type rating.
During the total 12 hours of SEP flight you must carry out 12 take offs and, not surprisingly, 12 landings as the "handling pilot:.
There IS a suggested profile to that minimum 60 minute flight with the fully qualified JAA instructor - and BEagle (or similar) will tell you the AIC reference number. Don't just wander off on a cross sountry for the $100 Hamburger.
Get all that done before licence expiry date (midnight, date on JARFCL150 form) you must turn up to a JAA EXAMINER, NOT an instructor and have your JARFCL150 page signed. There are numerous types of EXAMINER that are approved to sign your revalidation - just ask the individual. NOTE!!!! You MUST have that revalidation signature BEFORE midnight on expiration date. Even if you can prove the 12 hours flown, all hurdles jumped, all i's dotted, all t's crossed it is ILLEGAL to sign the form and "backdate" it by even one day (or hour). Phew.
It's an odd situation but if you get those 12 hours AT ANY TIME during the 12 months from 28 August 2004, you can have your licence revalidated for 24 months from date of current expiry - so if you do the 12 hours on August 30th 2004 (for example) you can revalidate until August 28th 2007. SEVEN. 2007. 24 months from current expiry date. It does not say this in LASORS - it's in the "source document", JAR FCL 1.
The second option - instead of the 12 hours total is to opt for a Licensing Proficiency Check (LPC)
This is a flight test and, as such, must be flown with a current (check their JARFCL 150 form) flight examiner authorised to carry out LPC on SEP aircraft.
The flight has a minimum requirement - and can be found on Page 1 and 2 of this form Note that this form is used for a huge variety of flight and simulator tests - so some of the items may seem a bit strange. For example, landings are mandatory - but take-offs are optional. In an aircraft this is ridiculous - in a simulator it's no problem (just press the reset button).
On an LPC you are required, for SEP class ratings, to complete sections 1, 2, 3A, 4, and 5. The amount of "3A" that you require is at the discretion of the individual examiner.
Revalidation by LPC may be done at any time within the THREE MONTHS PRIOR to expiry in order to be extended to 24 months from current expiry date. Go figure. I don't make the rules - I'm just telling you them. BY experience, any time in the 12 months prior. By LPC any time within the 3 months before expiry.
Phew - again.
In the event that you do not get your JARFCL150 signed, by either method, before expiry then the only option available to you is to take the LPC with an examiner. Exactly the same flight as the revalidation option - but now known as a renewal. Same flight profile. Same.
The UK CAA will allow an examiner "in the field" to sign a Renewal at any time up to five years from rating expiry - so, for you, August 28th 2010. All you need (in law) is the LPC - but your chances of passing it, if you haven't flown for too long, is "reduced". Take some training - at the the recommendation of your (hours hungry?) instructor.
That all help? Maybe somebody else will post about renewal/revalidation of MEP (or I'll do it another day).
Enjoy the flying.
Pretty well spot-on, keygrip!
A few minor points though:
1. Examiner authorisation is not recorded on a 'Ratings - Certificate of Revalidation' form.
2. If revalidating by experience, you have to wait until the last 3 months of the Rating validity period before an Examiner may sign the form, no matter when you achieved the 12 hours. Thus if your Rating validity ends on 25 Aug 05 and you achieved your 12 hours in, say, Mar 05, you'd have to wait until 25 May 05 to have your form signed. This is yet another cock-up of the CAA's own creation; they didn't read the JAR-FCL requirement correctly, so amended the ANO incorrectly. They realised this last year, but instead of sorting out their own cock-up, amended LASORS to change the JAR-FCL "shall be signed in the last 12 months" to read "shall be signed in the last 3 months".... They have been told about this error and have been requested to sort out the ANO rather than introduce requirements to abide by their own cock-up.
3. Don't forget the 90-day recency rule for passenger carrying!
4. There are slight differences in the way the LST and LPC are supposed to be conducted, even though the flight profiles are the same. The LST is intended to be rather more formal as it is a 'test', rather than a 'check'.
A few minor points though:
1. Examiner authorisation is not recorded on a 'Ratings - Certificate of Revalidation' form.
2. If revalidating by experience, you have to wait until the last 3 months of the Rating validity period before an Examiner may sign the form, no matter when you achieved the 12 hours. Thus if your Rating validity ends on 25 Aug 05 and you achieved your 12 hours in, say, Mar 05, you'd have to wait until 25 May 05 to have your form signed. This is yet another cock-up of the CAA's own creation; they didn't read the JAR-FCL requirement correctly, so amended the ANO incorrectly. They realised this last year, but instead of sorting out their own cock-up, amended LASORS to change the JAR-FCL "shall be signed in the last 12 months" to read "shall be signed in the last 3 months".... They have been told about this error and have been requested to sort out the ANO rather than introduce requirements to abide by their own cock-up.
3. Don't forget the 90-day recency rule for passenger carrying!
4. There are slight differences in the way the LST and LPC are supposed to be conducted, even though the flight profiles are the same. The LST is intended to be rather more formal as it is a 'test', rather than a 'check'.
The Original Whirly
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Keygrip and BEagle,
Thanks. Spot on.
I just read all that slowly and carefully, and although I knew and understood it all in advance, it took me quite a long time!!!
Yes, it bloody is!!!!! Look how long it took for two people to explain it. And a poor guy who's been overworked and with a new baby and not had time to fly comes on here and asks if he'd got it right - and he nearly had, but "nearly" won't do with these rules... Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to ask on here. I've known instructors and flight schools to get it wrong, or leave out a bit. And lots of people who think they know it come unstuck every year, especially with remembering to get the form signed in time having jumped through all the revalidation hoops correctly.
Anyway, how about if Keygrip's post is made a sticky, or if we start a new thread of FAQs, and put that on it?
Because CB isn't the first to have forgotten these horribly complicated revalidation/renewal rules, and I'll bet any of you anything you like that he won't be the last!
BRL?
Thanks. Spot on.
I just read all that slowly and carefully, and although I knew and understood it all in advance, it took me quite a long time!!!
Surely it's not THAT complicated? Is it?
Anyway, how about if Keygrip's post is made a sticky, or if we start a new thread of FAQs, and put that on it?
Because CB isn't the first to have forgotten these horribly complicated revalidation/renewal rules, and I'll bet any of you anything you like that he won't be the last!
BRL?
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OK, thanks all for the contributions - apologies, Keygrip, but I inadvertently typed the 'T' word instead of the 'C' word. I've been through the revalidation process 3 times now and it's all been hunky dory.
I pretty well understood the procedure, but LASORS now refers to a Skill Test in accordance with 'Appendices 1 & 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240' instead of the Licence Proficiency Check that used to be referred to in years gone by. As FCL 1 is not available on-line for inspection, I wasn't sure what the content of that Skill Test should be and I was really trying to confirm whether the data on the On Track web site was a current representation of the system (as an instructor / examiner talking to me last week said that the LPC was now a skill test).
I am aware of (and familiar with) most of the ifs, buts and maybes of passing a skill test for another rating, etc and tried to ensure that it was clear that I wasn't just asking the old bi-annual renewal question. I was certainly aware of the 'up to 3 months before', 'no backdating' and 'must be done by midnight on the expiry date' bits.
Thanks, Whirly for understanding where I'm coming from - I have had chances to fly in the last year, but I have taken the decision that I was not in a fit mental state (stress through work / house move / baby / exhaustion) to fly on each of these occasions.
This was not just a 'I can't be ar$ed to look it up' type question, honest!!
I pretty well understood the procedure, but LASORS now refers to a Skill Test in accordance with 'Appendices 1 & 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240' instead of the Licence Proficiency Check that used to be referred to in years gone by. As FCL 1 is not available on-line for inspection, I wasn't sure what the content of that Skill Test should be and I was really trying to confirm whether the data on the On Track web site was a current representation of the system (as an instructor / examiner talking to me last week said that the LPC was now a skill test).
I am aware of (and familiar with) most of the ifs, buts and maybes of passing a skill test for another rating, etc and tried to ensure that it was clear that I wasn't just asking the old bi-annual renewal question. I was certainly aware of the 'up to 3 months before', 'no backdating' and 'must be done by midnight on the expiry date' bits.
Thanks, Whirly for understanding where I'm coming from - I have had chances to fly in the last year, but I have taken the decision that I was not in a fit mental state (stress through work / house move / baby / exhaustion) to fly on each of these occasions.
This was not just a 'I can't be ar$ed to look it up' type question, honest!!
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Of course, JAR FCL1 is not readily available for viewing / download by mortals such as myself (such is the democracy which is the EU, but I digress
If you looked here you would see what a load of anti-eu Bo x that statement is.
http://www.jaa.nl/jars_npas/jarsec1.html
Read all the JARs you want and when you are finished read some NPAs and exercise your democratic right to comment on some of the proposed amendments! - Try that with the changes that have just been published to the ANO - of course you were aware that the ANO 2005 has been published are you not?
Regards,
DFC
If you looked here you would see what a load of anti-eu Bo
x that statement is.http://www.jaa.nl/jars_npas/jarsec1.html
Read all the JARs you want and when you are finished read some NPAs and exercise your democratic right to comment on some of the proposed amendments! - Try that with the changes that have just been published to the ANO - of course you were aware that the ANO 2005 has been published are you not?
Regards,
DFC
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As i understood it, the 60 minute flight does not necessarily have to be with a "fully qualified, fully rated, JAA flight instructor" as Keygrip puts it, it could be with a Class Rating Instructor (CRI)
LASORS section F page 9 refers
"...12 hours flight time in SEP aircraft as appropriate to include;
1) 6 hours PIC
2) 12 take offs and landings
3) a training flight of at least 1 hours duration with a FI(A) OR CRI(A) who must countersign the appropriate logbook entry blah blah blah
So don't shun the humble CRI, if you can find one they are a lot cheaper(if the dont hold a CPL they cannot accept payment) than a full FI and you can usually use your own a/c
LASORS section F page 9 refers
"...12 hours flight time in SEP aircraft as appropriate to include;
1) 6 hours PIC
2) 12 take offs and landings
3) a training flight of at least 1 hours duration with a FI(A) OR CRI(A) who must countersign the appropriate logbook entry blah blah blah
So don't shun the humble CRI, if you can find one they are a lot cheaper(if the dont hold a CPL they cannot accept payment) than a full FI and you can usually use your own a/c
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(Just woken up again - 5 hours behind you guys).
Evil J - a CRI is a qualified instructor. Point I'm trying to make is that a Floridian/Californian FAA instructor IS NOT authorised for this task.
BEagle - I said examiner CURRENCY can be checked on his/her JARFCL150 (trying to stress that this is a serious bit of paper - everything goes on it). The paragraph before that one says that individual examiners know what they are authorised to do.
I agree with you on the 3month/12month revalidation question (which is why I said about LASORS being wrong) - but the CAA still insist, verbally, that it can be done any time in the 12 months.
90 day rule is valid for passenger carrying, irrelevant to the question of class ratings, so I dropped it - but somehow knew that somebody would comment on it.
What's the difference between an LST and LPC then? In one you are grumpy, in the other you smile? Where does the dividing line on formality lie?
Evil J - a CRI is a qualified instructor. Point I'm trying to make is that a Floridian/Californian FAA instructor IS NOT authorised for this task.
BEagle - I said examiner CURRENCY can be checked on his/her JARFCL150 (trying to stress that this is a serious bit of paper - everything goes on it). The paragraph before that one says that individual examiners know what they are authorised to do.
I agree with you on the 3month/12month revalidation question (which is why I said about LASORS being wrong) - but the CAA still insist, verbally, that it can be done any time in the 12 months.
90 day rule is valid for passenger carrying, irrelevant to the question of class ratings, so I dropped it - but somehow knew that somebody would comment on it.
What's the difference between an LST and LPC then? In one you are grumpy, in the other you smile? Where does the dividing line on formality lie?
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DFC - humblest apologies to the very nice people at JAR, I will retract my comment about unavailability of JARs - in my naivety, I looked on the Publications page and just found a price list! Now my only negative comment is about the Web site design!
Last edited by Circuit Basher; 23rd Aug 2005 at 15:08.
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Location: South Norfolk, England
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Single Pilot Aeroplane. Single Engine Piston (Land). It's called a CLASS rating - not a type rating. You can fly ANY type, make, model of aeroplane that has only one piston powered engine, only requires one pilot, and lands on land - not water. That is with the exception of the PA46 - the Piper Malibu (that DOES require a type rating).
SS
All PFA 'coaches' holding PPLs were required to regularise their activities under JAR-FCL and became CRIs as a result.
A CRI rating is the mnimum required for the 'giving of insruction in flying'. Such as aerobatics.........
A CRI rating is the mnimum required for the 'giving of insruction in flying'. Such as aerobatics.........
Join Date: May 2001
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Point I'm trying to make is that a Floridian/Californian FAA instructor IS NOT authorised for this task
On the subject of complexity, it is bloody complex. I don't see why an LPC shouldn't start the clock ticking from anytime (other than the "three months prior"). After all an LPC is an LPC with authorised examiner.
If revalidating by experience, you have to wait until the last 3 months of the Rating validity period before an Examiner may sign the form, no matter when you achieved the 12 hours.
