Female Pilots
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
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Whirlygig,
If I remember the Jessica Starmer case correctly, she didn't have the hours/experience for BA to allow her to work half-time, but her husband did. In terms of bringing up their kids, it would have been perfectly possible for him to work part time. BA claimed that it was a safety issue, and from what I know about flying less hours when you're inexperienced, that makes sense to me. It wasn't a gender issue, till she tried to make it one. If I'm remembering correctly - and if I'm not, let me know and I'll delete the post - then basic logic says she should have lost her case.
IMHO, it's about time everyone realised that both parents are responsible for bringing up children. Jessica had a right to want to bring up her child, but no right to expect that BA should change their rules to let her, when the child's other parent could have done so.
However, if other women in the airlines have suffered, that is prejudice, pure and simple. If a red-haired man beats you up, does that make all red-haired men bad? In the light of recent events, are all Moslems evil? Becasue Hitler was German, are all Germans damned for eternity? Because I'm 5ft 2ins tall, does that mean all women are short? And because one woman wins a case where she shouldn't, why should that affect the way other women are viewed?
Sadly, I suspect it has/will. But whatever else you blame Jessica Starmer for, you can't blame her for that. She is not responsible for the world's view of half the human race.
If I remember the Jessica Starmer case correctly, she didn't have the hours/experience for BA to allow her to work half-time, but her husband did. In terms of bringing up their kids, it would have been perfectly possible for him to work part time. BA claimed that it was a safety issue, and from what I know about flying less hours when you're inexperienced, that makes sense to me. It wasn't a gender issue, till she tried to make it one. If I'm remembering correctly - and if I'm not, let me know and I'll delete the post - then basic logic says she should have lost her case.
IMHO, it's about time everyone realised that both parents are responsible for bringing up children. Jessica had a right to want to bring up her child, but no right to expect that BA should change their rules to let her, when the child's other parent could have done so.
However, if other women in the airlines have suffered, that is prejudice, pure and simple. If a red-haired man beats you up, does that make all red-haired men bad? In the light of recent events, are all Moslems evil? Becasue Hitler was German, are all Germans damned for eternity? Because I'm 5ft 2ins tall, does that mean all women are short? And because one woman wins a case where she shouldn't, why should that affect the way other women are viewed?
Sadly, I suspect it has/will. But whatever else you blame Jessica Starmer for, you can't blame her for that. She is not responsible for the world's view of half the human race.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Wirlygig, Ha Ha.
This has been debated al length and with much heat! on Rumours & News.
What seems to have come out of that debate is:
An airline pilots job is not the same as an office job, plumber, etc.
If an airline pilot fouls-up, people are going to die. Therefore airline pilots must be fit, competant, and do enough flying to remain ahead of the game. (Enough spare mental capacity to cope with an emergency)
British Airways have a good reputation as an equal opportunites employer, and generous in time off for maternity reasons. But in the case of one women pilot they have had to say "NO, you can't have more than a year off work on full pay, then come back to fly only 50% of normal hours! Safety comes first"
To have a successful flying career, and bring up a family has always been a difficult balancing act for women airline pilots. But many have managed it and become captains. However J.S. is not in that calibre. She seems to be deliberately milking the system in a shameless way.
I realise that times have changed, and yes employers should take responsibility for the children of their employees. But the principle of a "fair days pay for a fair days work" is still valid.
I am outraged at the actions of J.S. and of BALPA who supported her. But I am an old aviator, possibly a bit out of touch, and you should make up your own minds as to the rights & wrongs of the situation.
MG
This has been debated al length and with much heat! on Rumours & News.
What seems to have come out of that debate is:
An airline pilots job is not the same as an office job, plumber, etc.
If an airline pilot fouls-up, people are going to die. Therefore airline pilots must be fit, competant, and do enough flying to remain ahead of the game. (Enough spare mental capacity to cope with an emergency)
British Airways have a good reputation as an equal opportunites employer, and generous in time off for maternity reasons. But in the case of one women pilot they have had to say "NO, you can't have more than a year off work on full pay, then come back to fly only 50% of normal hours! Safety comes first"
To have a successful flying career, and bring up a family has always been a difficult balancing act for women airline pilots. But many have managed it and become captains. However J.S. is not in that calibre. She seems to be deliberately milking the system in a shameless way.
I realise that times have changed, and yes employers should take responsibility for the children of their employees. But the principle of a "fair days pay for a fair days work" is still valid.
I am outraged at the actions of J.S. and of BALPA who supported her. But I am an old aviator, possibly a bit out of touch, and you should make up your own minds as to the rights & wrongs of the situation.
MG
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I was trying to steer clear of the particulars of the case and look at the general reasons behind the claims that other female pilots have been held back.
As Whirlybird says, if that is the case then it is prejudice, pure and simple; prejudging a group of women on the basis of one woman's actions.
We have somehow ended up living in a litigious society but we can't (employers as well as employees) all believe that going to law will solve the injustices of this world and we can't all assume that that is the course of action which people will take.
Cheers
Whirlygig
As Whirlybird says, if that is the case then it is prejudice, pure and simple; prejudging a group of women on the basis of one woman's actions.
We have somehow ended up living in a litigious society but we can't (employers as well as employees) all believe that going to law will solve the injustices of this world and we can't all assume that that is the course of action which people will take.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Where have we met CC?
The brain gets a bit fluffy sometimes (I NEVER dust) but this
colour? Negative!
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Personally, I feel that it's companies like Tayside Aviation through pages like their female pilots page and comments like "monkey chattering thoughts" are encouraging women to be treated differently to men. I guess some people might call it positive discrimination but alas, it boils down to the same thing - people being treated differently.
"I had no idea there were female pilots." - Oh the ignorance! One of the best instructors I've ever had is female. Flys big stuff now and apparantly is damn good at it.
In fact bose-x, have you ever had a girlfriend??!! <banter!!>
"I had no idea there were female pilots." - Oh the ignorance! One of the best instructors I've ever had is female. Flys big stuff now and apparantly is damn good at it.
In fact bose-x, have you ever had a girlfriend??!! <banter!!>
Hovering AND talking
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How do they hold the stick with soap suds on there hands........
a copy of razzle.........
Seriously though, I thought Tayside web page a little ...er... shall we say... ill-advised but, just as there are women who prefer to have a female driving instructor (and I know as my bestest friend is a driving instructor and she rakes in the money from female students) there might be women who'd prefer a female flying instructor. Personally, I couldn't give a rat's ar$e as long as they were good but there are often confidence issues that a woman may prefer to deal with with another woman.
And with some of the cr@p one hears; is it any wonder? Perceived or otherwise?
Cheers
Whirls
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Advertisers' problems with sex go further than the odd ill-advised advert supposedly targeted at women. Consider this advert from "Headset Services" targeted, one imagines, at male pilots:
Presumably, we are supposed to be drawn to the product because a semi-clad woman is wearing it.
Worse still but not relevant to the thread, this particular woman doesn't actually look particularly pleased to be in the photo, and I would guess, is not a professional model - perhaps an unwilling employee coaxed into it...
2D
Presumably, we are supposed to be drawn to the product because a semi-clad woman is wearing it.
Worse still but not relevant to the thread, this particular woman doesn't actually look particularly pleased to be in the photo, and I would guess, is not a professional model - perhaps an unwilling employee coaxed into it...
2D
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Equality of the sexes at least applies throughout the mail order catalogues though: not one of those chaps modelling the clothing in any of the major catalogues looks as if he wants to take anyone flying...
Tabs please !
Presumably, we are supposed to be drawn to the product because a semi-clad woman is wearing it.
Have I strayed into Jet Blast by mistake ?
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She looks like she id about to be electrocuted and she is waiting for her last request.....an alcopop.
Here is a real lady pilot....
TopFlyingTotty
Lovely
Here is a real lady pilot....
TopFlyingTotty
Lovely
Last edited by Monocock; 25th Jul 2005 at 20:23.
