Lowering cloud base rising terrain
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,267
Likes: 36
From: uk
Lowering cloud base rising terrain
Whats best way to get out of this? Probably best to put down in a field but assume a lot of pilots would want to "fly" their way out of it. Any opinions?
VFR of course!
VFR of course!
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
From: Essex, UK
If turning back is not an option (it often isn't much of one in lowering cloud), then find a nice big field and get down to safety.
If you find a field next to a pub, even better.
Lowering weather is a killer and one which can leave you without options, very quickly.
If you find a field next to a pub, even better.
Lowering weather is a killer and one which can leave you without options, very quickly.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: UK,Twighlight Zone
Do an IMC, stay current. climb to MSA and divert. A field landing maybe an easy option in a Microlight (and I have done plenty in my time) but in your average spam can it is can create a lot more problems.
Otherwise learn to interpet the weather correctly and if you cant then dont go flying other than perfect VFR days.
Otherwise learn to interpet the weather correctly and if you cant then dont go flying other than perfect VFR days.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: North
"Whats best way to get out of this"
Get an IMC Rating, get access to a decent plane, keep current to use it. (This raises other issues e.g. that most airfields don't have an instrument procedure and one still has to land eventually)
Otherwise, don't fly if any actual+forecast cloudbases en route are below the MSA. (That will stop you going anywhere on most days.)
Otherwise, do a 180.
Get an IMC Rating, get access to a decent plane, keep current to use it. (This raises other issues e.g. that most airfields don't have an instrument procedure and one still has to land eventually)
Otherwise, don't fly if any actual+forecast cloudbases en route are below the MSA. (That will stop you going anywhere on most days.)
Otherwise, do a 180.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: Oop North, UK
Easiest way out that I know is to read the Met before you fly!!
Otherwise, don't fly if any actual+forecast cloudbases en route are below the MSA.
The time it happened to me (Many years ago now) I had a good forecast, I was just round the NW corner of the London Zone and the wx came in from that direction so trapping me between the London Zone and the bad wx. - found a nice big field and landed in it, waited with a cup of tea in the farmhouse I had made sure was at the end of the field, then continued when the wx cleared about 4 hours later - NO problem.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
If I know the terrain well enough, to hell with rule 5, fly down the valleys.
Most of the time however, if I reasonably can, divert to any runway long enough or a big field.
If I can't, climb into IMC, gentle turn around and get out that way. This is very much last option in a VMC-only aircraft however.
Have done (1) and (2), not yet (3) thankfully.
G
Most of the time however, if I reasonably can, divert to any runway long enough or a big field.
If I can't, climb into IMC, gentle turn around and get out that way. This is very much last option in a VMC-only aircraft however.
Have done (1) and (2), not yet (3) thankfully.
G
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
From: Essex, UK
The importance of taking action early and not flying down valleys.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
I should have said, "if I know the terrain well, and am flying something very slow".
I know the pilot of that Eurostar, he wasn't at-all local, and the aircraft cruises around 100kn. I wouldn't try that either !
G
I know the pilot of that Eurostar, he wasn't at-all local, and the aircraft cruises around 100kn. I wouldn't try that either !
G
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: NW England
Maintain cruise speed and pull back gently but firmly on the stick.
When ASI touches 45Kts, firm pressure on right rudder
and aircraft turns on its own axis.
Height required to achieve - less than 100'
Height lost if executed correctly 0'
Heading on completion of manoevre - 180 degrees different than at start.
Oh - by the way - I should not conduct this aerobatic manoevre in my CFM Shadow aircraft unless I am literally looking to prevent the scenario noted at the start of the thread, whereby 'good airmanship' prevails.
It's nice to know that it will though isn't it!!??!!
When ASI touches 45Kts, firm pressure on right rudder
and aircraft turns on its own axis.
Height required to achieve - less than 100'
Height lost if executed correctly 0'
Heading on completion of manoevre - 180 degrees different than at start.
Oh - by the way - I should not conduct this aerobatic manoevre in my CFM Shadow aircraft unless I am literally looking to prevent the scenario noted at the start of the thread, whereby 'good airmanship' prevails.
It's nice to know that it will though isn't it!!??!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,267
Likes: 36
From: uk
Circuit Basher
Was only asking the question with regards to the Austrian pilot who CFIT'd a couple of weeks ago in Scotland. He had just ferried it across the Atlantic so must have been a pretty able pilot.
The point of my post is that it probably is tempting to fly your way out of it, but best idea a powered landing in a field.
The point of my post is that it probably is tempting to fly your way out of it, but best idea a powered landing in a field.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: Ireland
Interesting topic!
Tony - 45kts, pulling back on stick and firm right rudder? In VFR and with an average (not aerobatic) aircraft and average pilot there's a good chance your last memory would be of the ground rotating rapidly while the houses/sheep get bigger...
Just do a 180. Most aircraft have difficulty flying through cumulogranite!
Anybody know of anyone who regularly (deliberately) flys IMC in a day/VFR certified a/c? I suppose the temptation would be there if one has an IR.
What makes a/c IFR certifiable anyway?
Confab
Tony - 45kts, pulling back on stick and firm right rudder? In VFR and with an average (not aerobatic) aircraft and average pilot there's a good chance your last memory would be of the ground rotating rapidly while the houses/sheep get bigger...
Just do a 180. Most aircraft have difficulty flying through cumulogranite!
Anybody know of anyone who regularly (deliberately) flys IMC in a day/VFR certified a/c? I suppose the temptation would be there if one has an IR.
What makes a/c IFR certifiable anyway?
Confab
Last edited by Confabulous; 31st May 2005 at 17:46.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
Confab,
In the UK, the ANO specifies the required instruments and navigatoin equipment for an aircraft to be used in IMC. Outside of controlled airspace, it's a very short list.
FFF
-----------------
In the UK, the ANO specifies the required instruments and navigatoin equipment for an aircraft to be used in IMC. Outside of controlled airspace, it's a very short list.
FFF
-----------------
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: NW England
Who said anything about IMC????
I thought the idea was to avoid it? Maybe I didn't understand the thread.
Merely pointing out that a Shadow will perform this manoevere accurately and safely and prevent you getting into cloud as well as turning through 180 degrees with minimum radius.
I thought the idea was to avoid it? Maybe I didn't understand the thread.
Merely pointing out that a Shadow will perform this manoevere accurately and safely and prevent you getting into cloud as well as turning through 180 degrees with minimum radius.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: Ireland
Thanks for that FFF, anybody know what the perf & stability criteria are - or where I could find them? Possibly in JAR 23 - and copies of it available online? I have looked, have been looking for while now.
Conf
PS: Tony, my fault for introducing the IMC complication - ignore it. If the Shadow can do the rudder turn, well and good - it looks a bit like a hammerhead turn to me! Don't fancy it in a PA28 or C172.
Conf
PS: Tony, my fault for introducing the IMC complication - ignore it. If the Shadow can do the rudder turn, well and good - it looks a bit like a hammerhead turn to me! Don't fancy it in a PA28 or C172.
Last edited by Confabulous; 31st May 2005 at 18:42.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: Oop North, UK
Having been in this situation I can tell you that you will be flying as low as you can with the cloud brushing the top of the aircraft and you do not have 100' to do the turn Tony describes, also, you can end up were I was and NOT have this option (180 took you into worse wx., straight on was CAS) - I still was able to take the time though to pick a very suitable field, do a practice approach and land in it - this is certainly the course I would recommend having been there and done it
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
From: UK
Sorry for asking a bit of a silly question, but I'm new to this game!
After having landed in this field would you then wait for the weather to pass and take off, or would you derig the aeroplane and take it to an airfield?
Sorry if it sounds stupid, just something ive been wondering!
Cheers,
James
After having landed in this field would you then wait for the weather to pass and take off, or would you derig the aeroplane and take it to an airfield?
Sorry if it sounds stupid, just something ive been wondering!
Cheers,
James
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 0
From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
In his book "How to Fly" Gordon Baxter mentions a useful safety device.
And if you are going to ignore his advice and fly up a valley surrounded by cumulogranitus, make sure it's a big one you can turn round in!
Chamonix below, the highest mountain in Europe to the right.
Mike
He handed me a small blue card with a hole cut in the middle of it. "This is your blue card instrument ticket. With this not even you could get into trouble. Before you start hold this blue card up against the sky. Look through the hole. If the sky is not the same colour as the card, don't go."
Chamonix below, the highest mountain in Europe to the right.
Mike
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: Oop North, UK
After having landed in this field would you then wait for the weather to pass and take off, or would you derig the aeroplane and take it to an airfield?
