Pilot convicted after Red Arrows TRA infringement
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Pilot convicted after Red Arrows TRA infringement
BBC news today reporting that a Belgian pilot who infringed the TRA around a Red Arrows display at Eastbourne was prosecuted, and has been convicted - £3000 fine.
Full story here
Full story here
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The following is a quote from the news item...
So why then, did the Red Arrows inbound to an airfield in the SW, last year, call up on a VHF frequency which had changed, and been properly promulgated 6 months before?
"In many cases the pilots simply haven't briefed themselves properly before taking off.
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"So why then, did the Red Arrows inbound to an airfield in the SW, last year, call up on a VHF frequency which had changed, and been properly promulgated 6 months before?"
Because they are the Reds and dont need to follow the rules of the air etc.!!
In any case it would not be their fault, some poor sod way down the pecking order would get a kicking for that one.
Because they are the Reds and dont need to follow the rules of the air etc.!!
In any case it would not be their fault, some poor sod way down the pecking order would get a kicking for that one.
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In any case it would not be their fault, some poor sod way down the pecking order would get a kicking for that one.
Having said that, I doubt I would take it up with their boss!
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From what little I know of it (and those more familiar please correct) the Reds will have briefed using information provided by the AIDU to the RAF. Considering the number of airfields worldwide that they cover, and the possible delays in the revision process, sometimes these things will slip through, particularly if the airfield in question was relatively small and not normally visited by the RAF.
Looking at the bigger picture, though....getting a frequency wrong vs. flying through a display featuring nine aircraft trailing smoke that I have seen in the past from over 20 miles away.....?
'Nuff said.
Looking at the bigger picture, though....getting a frequency wrong vs. flying through a display featuring nine aircraft trailing smoke that I have seen in the past from over 20 miles away.....?
'Nuff said.
Workinghard,
Better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it removing all possible doubt.
Reds brief and plan using information supplied to them. Their routes are carefully planned and checked adhering to RotA. NOTAMs are checked every day and before every transit. You might think you know how they operate but I would suggest that you need to visit Scampton some time and you will find out for yourself that the Reds are an extremely professional organization.
Better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it removing all possible doubt.
Reds brief and plan using information supplied to them. Their routes are carefully planned and checked adhering to RotA. NOTAMs are checked every day and before every transit. You might think you know how they operate but I would suggest that you need to visit Scampton some time and you will find out for yourself that the Reds are an extremely professional organization.
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DB6
my point was not the seriousness of the offence , or the fine imposed... but a reaction to the earlier comment about the standards of pilot pre-flight planning.
PPL's missing a frequency change is wrong, but perhaps excusable(?) But when the (self proclaimed) premier aerobatic team... with all their attendant support, miss a frequency change, at the airfield (RAF incidentally) they are supposed to be displaying at... Heck they had even been told on the phone before departure of the new frequency... No excuse and now tell me whose PFP stinks?
my point was not the seriousness of the offence , or the fine imposed... but a reaction to the earlier comment about the standards of pilot pre-flight planning.
PPL's missing a frequency change is wrong, but perhaps excusable(?) But when the (self proclaimed) premier aerobatic team... with all their attendant support, miss a frequency change, at the airfield (RAF incidentally) they are supposed to be displaying at... Heck they had even been told on the phone before departure of the new frequency... No excuse and now tell me whose PFP stinks?
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Fair enough Pierre, but if they were told about it before flight then surely the preflight planning was OK, just the airborne bit slightly awry 
.
Mind you, if I was leading a formation of 9 Hawks around the countryside at 250 kts and 500 feet I doubt if I could find the radio, let alone tune it in, never mind remembering the frequency
.Whatever your personal opinion of the Reds you have to admit they are F*&%ing good. But we digress.......
. Mind you, if I was leading a formation of 9 Hawks around the countryside at 250 kts and 500 feet I doubt if I could find the radio, let alone tune it in, never mind remembering the frequency
.Whatever your personal opinion of the Reds you have to admit they are F*&%ing good. But we digress.......
There is a small lesson here - that seems to have been missed. If departing from your planned route (and we all do this constantly), TALK TO SOMEBODY. This is the sort of thing ATC are paid for!
A couple of years ago I was routing somewhere not a million miles from Southend, and decided to modify my route slightly through the overhead of an airfield - at a nice safe 3,000 ft.
Not wishing to cause offence, I called them up on RT about 15 miles out, explained my intentions and asked if there was anything to affect me. Rather coldly, they pointed out that actually they were in the middle of an airshow, and would very much appreciate it if I went elsewhere - so I did. No drama, no prosecution (another statistic possibly about the lousy NOTAM system at that time, which I HAD checked quite carefullly, but failed somehow to note this). I'm sure that the fellers in the tower at Clacton said some fairly unpleasant things about me - but far less unpleasant than had I just carried on into what I thought was open FIR and possibly preceded our Belgian friend in his misdemeanour.
G
A couple of years ago I was routing somewhere not a million miles from Southend, and decided to modify my route slightly through the overhead of an airfield - at a nice safe 3,000 ft.
Not wishing to cause offence, I called them up on RT about 15 miles out, explained my intentions and asked if there was anything to affect me. Rather coldly, they pointed out that actually they were in the middle of an airshow, and would very much appreciate it if I went elsewhere - so I did. No drama, no prosecution (another statistic possibly about the lousy NOTAM system at that time, which I HAD checked quite carefullly, but failed somehow to note this). I'm sure that the fellers in the tower at Clacton said some fairly unpleasant things about me - but far less unpleasant than had I just carried on into what I thought was open FIR and possibly preceded our Belgian friend in his misdemeanour.
G
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Agree wholeheartedly with Genghis on this - a couple of years ago I was returning from the IOW and thought I'd route overhead Goodwood. On contacting them before crossing the coast they informed me that there was a freefall parachute drop about to take place from FL100, so it was no trouble to avoid it.
I hadn't picked up the details in the NOTAMs as I hadn't intended to route that way.
As I recall, I heard them mention the drop to another aircraft before I made my call, so even listening on the frquency can be beneficial!
SD
I hadn't picked up the details in the NOTAMs as I hadn't intended to route that way.
As I recall, I heard them mention the drop to another aircraft before I made my call, so even listening on the frquency can be beneficial!
SD
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Ham Phisted - good advice that you should heed. I have to say that the Reds are the greatest aerobatic team ever seen in my opinion but outside the actual display scene their airmanship and adherence to rules of the air can sometimes leave a lot to be desired. My base of ops is quite near to Scampton now and it is some years since I visited the team so am (was?) aware of the planning processes.
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And long may it be so.
Variation from rules good, airmanship (dont believe they would ever compromise that). Perhaps your perception is distorted, remember they have very high level skills which extend their boundaries whilst still applying principles of airmanship.
The Reds often do an impromtu display at NCL when leaving and joing after the Sunderland airshow, please don't tie them up in too much regulation and spoil what is supposed to be fun!!
Variation from rules good, airmanship (dont believe they would ever compromise that). Perhaps your perception is distorted, remember they have very high level skills which extend their boundaries whilst still applying principles of airmanship.
The Reds often do an impromtu display at NCL when leaving and joing after the Sunderland airshow, please don't tie them up in too much regulation and spoil what is supposed to be fun!!
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Charlie 32 - "please don't tie them up in too much regulation and spoil what is supposed to be fun!!"
Of course, how could anyone disagree? As long as we all abide by the same rules (and are required so to do) then flying should be fun for all and safety will not be compromised.
Just a suggestion here so I am more than willing to be corrected but, if for example, the Reds management when establishing a TRA were to simply telephone all active airfields within say 15 - 20 miles radius, and state the obvious for promulgation to all airfield members/users, would this not be a good idea? I am well aware there is no requirement for this but in the interests of safety and good PR and avoiding disappointed punters etc ????
We pay the Reds so cost cannot be an issue.
Of course, how could anyone disagree? As long as we all abide by the same rules (and are required so to do) then flying should be fun for all and safety will not be compromised.
Just a suggestion here so I am more than willing to be corrected but, if for example, the Reds management when establishing a TRA were to simply telephone all active airfields within say 15 - 20 miles radius, and state the obvious for promulgation to all airfield members/users, would this not be a good idea? I am well aware there is no requirement for this but in the interests of safety and good PR and avoiding disappointed punters etc ????
We pay the Reds so cost cannot be an issue.
The Reds often do an impromtu display at NCL when leaving and joing after the Sunderland airshow,...
Horse $hit. They don't do impromptu displays. They may do an arrival which, to the uninitiated, looks like a display but they simply do not perform impromptu displays. Never. Ever. Get the idea.
A display is alsways properly surveyed, planned, notamed and briefed.
Workinghard, if you're close to Sca, pay a visit, go for a trip and then voice an opinion.
A display is alsways properly surveyed, planned, notamed and briefed.
Workinghard, if you're close to Sca, pay a visit, go for a trip and then voice an opinion.
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HP - are you suggesting that I should have no opinion because I have not "gone for a trip" with them? One does not need to do that to experience the Reds in this part of the world. They are superb aerobatic pilots, the Red Arrows team are superb ambassadors of UK plc and for the RAF. No one can deny that but please let us all remember they are not gods, they can and do make errors of judgement. They do nothing other than practice the routines and are paid so to do and paid as professional pilots so they need to be very professional and usually are.
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the Reds management when establishing a TRA were to simply telephone all active airfields within say 15 - 20 miles radius, and state the obvious for promulgation to all airfield members/users
Snag is where do they draw the line... Major airfields, Minor airfields, micro-light sites, private strips.... They are quite right to rely on the NOTAM system... and anyone who doesn't check it is quite wrong.
(incidentally... the frequency change missed by the Reds was also NOTAM'd)
